Talk of new Grangemouth railway station

[Gadget88]

See here:

http://m.falkirkherald.co.uk/news/b...for-new-grangemouth-railway-station-1-3047784

Call for new Grangemouth railway station

Falkirk Council has revealed that it is reviewing potential locations across the district which could be used for new railway stations.

The news comes amid renewed calls for the re-opening of Grangemouth station, which closed to passengers in 1968.

The port town is still served by a working railway line, but it has been exclusively used by freight trains for more than four decades.

John Angel, head of planning and transportation at Falkirk Council, said: “In conjunction with the regional transport partnership SEStran, the council has hired a consultant to review options for potential bids to the new Scottish Stations Investment Fund.

“We expect to receive the consultant’s report in time to be presented to the Executive in October.”

Mr Angel confirmed that a site in Union Road, Grangemouth, is safeguarded in the council’s Local Plan as a possible location for a new railway station.

Walter Inglis, the former chairman of the recently-disbanded Grangemouth Community Council, is a long-term proponent of bringing back passenger services to the port.

He said: “The community council fought for many years to make the case for reinstatement of a rail station.

A few questions would they run it to Bo'ness and would they add a stop for the Falkirk stadium and Helix?

Would it run a service to Glasgow and maybe take on Bonnybridge on the Cumbernauld line or would they run at Edinburgh service? They could reduce the current one to hourly via Polmont and add an hourly service to Edinbrugh via Grangemouth and Bo'ness missing out Polmont could they not? How would adding a station in Bo'ness affect the steam train line would they built a new line or use the same one?

Also if they add a station to Winchburgh would it be at the end of the current Falkirk high line or would they run services to Fife via the old Dalmeny line taking in Falkirk and Linlithgow?

I know Kincardine isn't on the list of stations proposed but could this one be another? Surely come 2015 stations like Bannockburn are also a real possibility. Would this station go somewhere near Cowie/Bannockburn?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

In the original EGIP plans, how was this project classified ?

 

[jopsuk]

Problem is that the railways skirts round the edge of Grangemouth, in the industrial areas away from the centre of town.

Extending to Bo'ness would require building a bridge over the mouth of the Avon, and would basically be running through what now sidings for the petrochemical plant.

Bannockburn's surely a non-starter

 

[Gadget88]

Bannockburn's surely a non-starter

http://www.stirlingobserver.co.uk/s...nnockburn-to-get-rail-station-51226-22457929/

It could go at the end of Cowie serving Plean and the end of Bannockburn in the Stirling like. The plan would be a park and ride too.

 

[michael769]

Councils are always calling for new stations.

Few turn out to be feasible.

 

[jopsuk]

It could go at the end of Cowie serving Plean and the end of Bannockburn in the Stirling like. The plan would be a park and ride too.

It would almost entirely be a park-and-ride. 1km out the middle of Cowie. 2 or 3km from Plean. Even further from Bannockburn, to the extent that calling it "Bannockburn" station would be like a cruel joke.

(and whatever happened to the universal ticketing system mentioned in that article- five years on...)

A Winchburgh station to me seems equally potty- without adding an extra M9 junction, acess would be terrible and local population is low.

 

[Altnabreac]

See here:

http://m.falkirkherald.co.uk/news/b...for-new-grangemouth-railway-station-1-3047784


A few questions would they run it to Bo'ness and would they add a stop for the Falkirk stadium and Helix?

Would it run a service to Glasgow and maybe take on Bonnybridge on the Cumbernauld line or would they run at Edinburgh service? They could reduce the current one to hourly via Polmont and add an hourly service to Edinbrugh via Grangemouth and Bo'ness missing out Polmont could they not? How would adding a station in Bo'ness affect the steam train line would they built a new line or use the same one?

The Grangemouth line and Bo'ness line are entirely unconnected, any new services to Grangemouth would not affect Bo'ness.

I wouldn't be surprised if an additional station to serve Laurieston, Falkirk Stadium etc were to be recommended by the study.

The only option for a new service is likely to be an extension of the Glasgow Queen Street to Falkirk service, this could be in association with extending the second train per hour from Cumbernauld to give a 2tph service and could also involve new stations at Bonnybridge and/or Castle Cary.

This is the logical option both because the line obviously faces westwards so any Edinburgh service would need a reversal reducing line capacity but also because there is no additional capacity on the western approaches to Edinburgh so an Edinburgh - Grangemouth service could only run by removing a through service to Dunblane or Alloa.

A Grangemouth - Glasgow Queen St service timed conveniently to conenct into the Edinburgh service at Falkirk Grahamston would be the best option.

I suspect the timing of this report is to ensure that when the EGIP electrification work reaches Grangemouth it takes account of the options to reinstate passenger services and doesnt block any options.

The Ideal time to introduce new services would be timed to coincide with the recast of timetables when Cumbernauld - Falkirk electrification takes place in either 2016 or 2018 (not clear from current Transport Scotland timetable whether it is part of the Edinburgh - Glasgow phase, or the Stirling phase).

 

[PaulLothian]

I agree with all the previous issues raised about Grangemouth. Bo'ness? - I can't see that happening, and as an alternative to the existing route, a loop with reversals would not be popular with most of the regular travellers, given it would add quite a bit of time to the normal journey.

Winchburgh does have a station and a motorway junction planned as part of the development of the village, set to grow from 2,000 to 10-12,000 (and building has started). Even then of course, it will be smaller than Grangemouth or Bo'ness, which makes this seem slightly unfair. Guess it comes down to location!

 

[Gadget88]

Where did Bo'ness use to run too?

If it was reopened would it have to be connected to the Fife circle?

I think it would still be better connecting from Grangemouth on a line. How far does the existing line in Grangemouth go? Can you not add one at the outskirts of Bo'ness with a park and ride at the Grangemouth end?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

A Winchburgh station to me seems equally potty- without adding an extra M9 junction, acess would be terrible and local population is low.

It's on the 12 stations being looked at due to the expansion and new housing.

 

[Altnabreac]

A Winchburgh station to me seems equally potty- without adding an extra M9 junction, acess would be terrible and local population is low.

The new Winchburgh station is fully developer funded and has planning permission.

It is being proposed as part of a plan to build 3,400 new homes, a new town centre around the station site and 40Ha of new employment land so will only go ahead along with a significant increase in potential traffic.
See http://www.winchburghfuture.co.uk for more details.
There is even a new junction on the M9 planned to keep you happy!

Once all the construction takes place Winchburgh would have a population of around 10,000 people, for reference Linlithgow has a population of around 14,000 people and generated 1,155,072 entries and exits in 2011-12 making it the 17th busiest station in Scotland, so the new station would certainly have significant potential to generate a large volume of journeys.

The issues for Winchburgh are not those of most station reopenings (funding sources or usage estimates) but timetabling the extra stops. The plan is for the 2tph Edinburgh to Dunblane/Alloa to stop at Winchburgh. The potential issues are around performance pollution for the enhanced Edinburgh - Glasgow via Falkirk service and as yet the new stops have not been signed off by Transport Scotland.

The Dalmeny Chord would have resolved all these iussues but of course has now been dropped from EGIP (although it may come back to support HSR in future) so progress on Winchburgh station may be delayed.

 

[matchmaker]

Where did Bo'ness use to run too?

The last passenger services ended in 1956 by which time the service was Bo'ness to Polmont.

Bo'ness had been part of the Borrowstouness and Slamannan Railway which closed to passengers in about 1930.

Check out Railscot:

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/Slamannan_Railway/frame.htm

 

[route:oxford]

The potential issues are around performance pollution for the enhanced Edinburgh - Glasgow via Falkirk service and as yet the new stops have not been signed off by Transport Scotland.

If it was built as a 4-track station with loops long enough to take the longest freight train (+8 to ensure that a freight train is never actually stopped in the station)...

Wouldn't that be a massive help to timetable performance?

 

[Altnabreac]

If it was built as a 4-track station with loops long enough to take the longest freight train (+8 to ensure that a freight train is never actually stopped in the station)...

Wouldn't that be a massive help to timetable performance?

Not sure that would be much cheaper than the Dalmeny Chord!

Main problem with that plan is the constrained site. You come out of the Winchburgh tunnel then you have a steep sided cutting (2 tracks wide) then the station site is only around 500m SE of the junction with the existing Dalmeny line. There just wouldn't be room for a four track station.

Ultimately the required solution is the Dalmeny Chord it helps balance the rail network much better and provides extra capacity for Waverley that no other scheme can deliver.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The last passenger services ended in 1956 by which time the service was Bo'ness to Polmont.

Bo'ness had been part of the Borrowstouness and Slamannan Railway which closed to passengers in about 1930

As a keen amateur railway historian, I remember being quite impressed when reading of the construction works of both the Slamannan Railway and the Slamannan and Borrowstounness Railway many years ago.

 

[SkinnyDave]

I lived up until recently in Bonnybridge next to Greenhill lower junction.
The amount of people now living in Bonnybridge from the West commuting into Glagow everyday is huge.
Bonnybridge would be in my opinion a busier station than Camelon and a new one at Grangemouth combined.

 

[PaulLothian]

Not sure that would be much cheaper than the Dalmeny Chord!

Main problem with that plan is the constrained site. You come out of the Winchburgh tunnel then you have a steep sided cutting (2 tracks wide) then the station site is only around 500m SE of the junction with the existing Dalmeny line. There just wouldn't be room for a four track station.

Not to mention the flooded quarry separated from the railway by a retaining wall...

 

[Gadget88]

My post last year was locked:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=88781

But what are the chances of one with the added element of the Kelipes and Helix park?

 

[route:oxford]

My post last year was locked:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=88781

But what are the chances of one with the added element of the Kelipes and Helix park?

How close are the Kelpies to the proposed Grangemouth station and is there a clear and safe footpath to get there?

 

[Gadget88]

How close are the Kelpies to the proposed Grangemouth station and is there a clear and safe footpath to get there?

The Grangemouth station would be quite a bit away. If it were to happen it would need a 'Westfield' station before Grangemouth. The station at the moment would be right behind Falkirk football stadium so would have match day crowds and it's near Falkirk college and the Kelipies would be a ten min walk from the new station. If a station does get opened in Grangemouth I think it's essesnal for a Westfield stop.

Plus I imagine the Grangemouth station could be big enough to be a staffed one but a single shelter would be enough at the Westfield stop. I know any proposition has just been for a Grangemouth stop so I fear it might years after the line did open we got a stop at the Kelpies.

 

[AdamWitherman]

I'm staggered that no one raises the question of feasibility when discussing a new rail station for Grangemouth. The population has been declining year on year and from a high in the 1970's of around 24,000 it is now less than 17,000.

The chances of such a development border on zero. The travel time by car and bus and the actual location issues in Grangemouth don't support any investment. Car parking would be required in Grangemouth and the proposed Union Road location won't win friends from the shop owners at La Porte Precinct as presently parks would be taken from there and shoppers too. There are dozens of empty retail premises as it is.

The discussion is being driven by sentiment and emotional memories rather than logical reasons. Politicians are just mouthing a reply.

 

[SkinnyDave]

I've been calling for a station at Bonnybridge and spoke to MSPs about it for ages! Bonnybridge now has a growing number of commuters living there from Glasgow & Cumbernauld.
If Grangemouth were to get a station over Bonnybridge I'd be a bit annoyed

 

[PaxVobiscum]

If Grangemouth were to get a station over Bonnybridge I'd be a bit annoyed

And with the mysterious lights it would put in the sky there would be a new spate of UFO sightings.

 

[170401]

I've been calling for a station at Bonnybridge and spoke to MSPs about it for ages! Bonnybridge now has a growing number of commuters living there from Glasgow & Cumbernauld.
If Grangemouth were to get a station over Bonnybridge I'd be a bit annoyed

I couldn't agree more with this. The Bonnybridge and Denny area has a massively expanding population and a station on the Greenhill lower - Carmuirs West section would be ideal. It also provides an ideal location for an interchange between Croy and Cumbernauld - Stirling and Falkirk routes rather than the awkward and poorly timed changes currently available at Camelon and Larbert.

Reasons given for this not going ahead generally revolve around their not being enough time in the timetable. Perhaps electrification will see an opportunity created to facilitate a stop here. Keep up the campaigning Dave, might also be worth extolling the virtues of the station to Cumbernauld representatives too

 

[reb0118]

If I may hi - jack this thread somewhat. With regard to Bo'ness it will highly improbable that the town will ever get its mainline connection to the network reopened for normal passenger services. We would require either a new mainline station at Manuel (Bo'ness Jn.), or turnback facilities at Polmont, or indeed a through service to Glasgow. NB that both the junctions for Grangemouth & Bo'ness originally faced west although the Bo'ness & Kinneil now have a reversing siding to enable trains to enter/leave from the east. Even if the money was available we do not have the paths available for such services.

We have to admit that presently some towns will be unable to have their former stations reopened.

That said does that mean that we should cut them of from the rail network? The answer is no! Effective and seamless integrated transport is the answer. Assuming that the Grangemouth station is reopened (and it should) there should be a connecting bus service from Linlithgow station (a railhead for Bo'ness) via Bo'ness to Grangemouth station, the bus could continue to Falkirk Grahamston via the bus station if required. The bus should be liveried in ScotRail colours and through ticketing & timetabling must be introduced.

Another bus link I would introduce would be on the north south axis of the A706 Bo'ness - Lanark route. Most routes east west serving Edinburgh & Glasgow are very well served and it it often the case that passengers travelling from e.g. Linlithgow to Bathgate are quicker taking the train via Edinburgh Park (or in some cases Haymarket) than waiting for the infrequent bus round the houses.

My proposed link would serve Bo'ness - Linlithgow Station - Armadale Station -Whitburn - Breich Interchange (don't laugh) - Forth - Lanark Station & New Lanark. Again the bus should be liveried in ScotRail colours & though ticketing and timetabling is a given. The primary role for this bus would be the linking of railway stations on adjoining but non connected parallel routes, a secondary benefit would be the connecting of non rail served towns to the network, and thirdly the buses could be used for local traffic as long as this does not affect the primary raison d'etre of the service. Where possible these buses should run express.

Going back on topic to Grangemouth Station - how about an hourly service to Glasgow via Cumbernauld (an extention of the GLQ - FKG train) & an hourly stopping train to Alloa (new service)? Thereby giving half hourly journey opportunities in this part of Central Scotland.