Tallest UK Railway Signal

[Ferris boy]

Whilst preparing a recent talk I found a 1953 photo of a a semaphore signal on the ECML at Alnmouth at least 80ft high, but cannot find any records of UK signal heights to see if it was the tallest. The only other one I've found was 86ft ? at Dalston Junction. Can anyone confirm where the tallest was and what height ?

 

[hexagon789]

Whilst preparing a recent talk I found a 1953 photo of a a semaphore signal on the ECML at Alnmouth at least 80ft high, but cannot find any records of UK signal heights to see if it was the tallest. The only other one I've found was 86ft ? at Dalston Junction. Can anyone confirm where the tallest was and what height ?

January 1957 Railway Magazine reports of the replacement of the signals at Dalston Junction -

the 84 ft.-6 in. lattice iron posts carrying the down home signals have been taken away and colour-lights now reign in place of semaphores. They are said to have been the highest signal posts in London, and certainly there can have been few higher anywhere.

 

[Enthusiast]

January 1957 Railway Magazine reports of the replacement of the [84ft-6in] signals at Dalston Junction -

I know Dalston Junction quite well from its days when it was only served by the Broad Street-Richmond/Watford services and I can't imagine why it would require a signal so tall. The east curve (towards Poplar) was closed in WW2 but the entire station (which once boasted six platforms) together with the three lines served by it are in shallow cuttings, probably no more than about twenty feet deep. Anyone got any information why such a tall structure was necessary?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I know Dalston Junction quite well from its days when it was only served by the Broad Street-Richmond/Watford services and I can't imagine why it would require a signal so tall. The east curve (towards Poplar) was closed in WW2 but the entire station (which once boasted six platforms) together with the three lines served by it are in shallow cuttings, probably no more than about twenty feet deep. Anyone got any information why such a tall structure was necessary?

Usually it would be because some structure was in the way of the sighting angle if it was at a more normal height - you say about the cutting - were there any bridges in front of where the signal in question was located that would block a view of it if it was lower?

 

[Rescars]

Does anyone know the height of the famous double gantry on the LNWR at Rugby, with all its duplicate (co-acting) arms. AIUI this was constructed to overcome sighting problems created by the GCR's girder bridge.

 

[Enthusiast]

Usually it would be because some structure was in the way of the sighting angle if it was at a more normal height - you say about the cutting - were there any bridges in front of where the signal in question was located that would block a view of it if it was lower?

Unfortunately I don't know where the tall signal was placed.

Dalston Junction was a triangular junction with the northbound track from Broad Street splitting into two routes: eastbound to Poplar and westbound to Highbury (then onwards to Richmond and Watford). There was a track linking the e/b and w/b arms which did not serve the station. The entire layout was below street level, passing under half a dozen roads. It's quite possible that there were places where a signal may be unsighted but I can't imagine how a driver could see a signal 80 feet in the air from anywhere in that vicinity!

 

[Gloster]

According to an entry on .LNER.info they were south of Dalston Junction.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Seaton Junction had a rather tall signal on its up platform. I don’t know it’s height. Here’s a photo showing it. No photo credit is shown for the original.

 

[norbitonflyer]

It's quite possible that there were places where a signal may be unsighted but I can't imagine how a driver could see a signal 80 feet in the air from anywhere in that vicinity!

Might it have had a co-acting arm at a lower level, to be seen at closer quarters? (the sighting issue here presumably being the bridge the photo was taken from - see also the Seaton Junction picture)

 

[Tio Terry]

One of the tallest I can recall was on the Up East Suffolk at the London end of Beccles station. It was a wooden co-acting signal, designed so that trains approaching the station from Lowestoft around the curve.could see the aspect above the stations buildings and footbridge. In it's latter years it wasn't too sfe, some of the ladder stays attachments became loose, the lampman refused to climb it so the upper aspect had no light in it. We did, eventually remove the top arm altogether. Gone now of course.

 

[Gloster]

I think that somewhere it was mentioned that the Dalston Junction signals were co-acting.

 

[swt_passenger]

Seaton Junction had a rather tall signal on its up platform. I don’t know it’s height. Here’s a photo showing it. No photo credit is shown for the original.
View attachment 155124

Depending on the track curvature, and the required sighting distance, they might have needed to make it clearly visible with respect to the roofline of the station building. Having it visible above the bridge but still appearing at a similar level with the station roof might not have been quite clear enough. So we possibly need to think of the combined effect of a number of different obstructions or backgrounds..

 

[edwin_m]

Here is a signal box diagram for Dalston Junction in 1938, showing signals 23, 43 and 49 with co-actors which would suggest they were tall. The location is also consistent with them being the Down Home signals mentioned in #2 above.

Track Diagram: Dalston Junction (1938)

There is an article linked from that page: https://signalbox.org/branch-lines/give-my-regards-to-broad-street/

the Down Homes for Dalston Junction are seen. These were believed to be the tallest signal posts in the country, towering some 60 feet in order to accommodate co-acting arms. These were replaced by colour light signals, as were many semaphores in the area, in the late ‘fifties or early sixties.

 

[185]

Twenty years back, seem to recall one on the Hull mainline near the roadbridge, which we had to trundle on up to in thickest fog drifting off the humber, only to find a pole with a cloud above it. It must have been 20m (65ft ish) or higher.

 

[Ferris boy]

Thanks all for the feedback - here's the Alnmouth signal, built in 1907 and still there in 1953, built to ensure sighting by down trains over the Alnmouth Station roadbridge.
I estimate 80ft high but others may be able to measure more accurately. It also begs another question - is this a unique example of lower and upper quadrant semaphores on the same post ?

 

[Railsigns]

It also begs another question - is this a unique example of lower and upper quadrant semaphores on the same post ?

No, it's not unique but not very common either.

 

[EyeKay]

There used to be a very tall signal post at Poulton-le-Fylde. It was the advanced starter in the Blackpool bound direction. As a kid I used to trainspot a mile or so away and could see the signal above the houses. When it returned to the horizontal position I knew a train had just passed it and it would soon be coming round the curve to where I was.

 

[edwin_m]

It also begs another question - is this a unique example of lower and upper quadrant semaphores on the same post ?

Can't help thinking when the gang came along on a windy day with a batch of upper quadrant arms, they must have looked up at the top of that one and decided if they just skipped it nobody would notice.

 

[Railsigns]

The North Eastern Railway had several co-acting signals where the lower arm worked in the upper quadrant to avoid fouling the structure gauge when 'off'; these were installed before the general introduction of upper quadrant arms on Britain's railways.

 

[Rescars]

The North Eastern Railway had several co-acting signals where the lower arm worked in the upper quadrant to avoid fouling the structure gauge when 'off'; these were installed before the general introduction of upper quadrant arms on Britain's railways.

Fouling by lower quadrant arms could be problematic in other situations. To avoid hitting passengers heads amongst other considerations, the GWR used giant size discs as running line signals in certain locations when signalling needed to be accommodated under station canopies. Others will know if the examples at Worcester Shrub Hill are still in operation.