Tank Containers on the Tesco Inverness Train

[Cheshire Scot]

The southbound Tesco Inverness to Mossend train passed my northbound cl170 at Carr Bridge today. I was surprised to see the rear two flats were both carrying tank containers.

Whilst I have not seen this train for some time I have not read anywhere of it carrying traffic other than for Tesco stores in the Highland and some back loads from Highland suppliers to reach the Tesco distrbution network.

I have to admit due to speed and close proximity (and surprise!) I could not make out any markings (if there were any) on the tanks which sported plain white livery but I admit to thinking the most likely traffic on this route would be whisky - a number of hauliers move bulk whisky in tankers on the parallel A9 every day, and back in Speedlink days Chivas Regal was loaded to rail at Keith and sent to the bottling plant in Dalmuir albeit via Aberdeen.

Can anyone spread any light on this, is it a new development or a trial or just something I have missed?

 

[Dr Hoo]

It's a semi-regular flow of liquified natural gas for the Wick area. Although there appears to be 'mains gas' up there it's not connected to the 'national grid' of pipelines.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

It's a semi-regular flow of liquified natural gas for the Wick area. Although there appears to be 'mains gas' up there it's not connected to the 'national grid' of pipelines.

Thanks for that, presumably it is by road north of Inverness.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Thanks for that, presumably it is by road north of Inverness.

Yes.

 

[ABB125]

Does this gas grid have any other sources of gas? A "semi-regular" supply of two tanks doe's sound like it'll supply much...

 

[HSTEd]

Does this gas grid have any other sources of gas? A "semi-regular" supply of two tanks doe's sound like it'll supply much...

The traditional way of providing gas in such isolated systems it to pump a mix of air and propane into the pipes, with the mixture fraction set to mimic the calorific value of methane.

Propane being far more easily transportable than LNG, at least historically.

 

[InOban]

There are several of these isolated gas networks in Scotland ; here in Oban is one. It used to come from a gas storage facility in Central Scotland but is now brought by refrigerated tanker from South Wales.

 

[xotGD]

The LNG used to come all the way from Isle of Grain by road. So rail to Inverness is a big improvement.

Rail to Georgemas Jn would be even better.

 

[Stathern Jc]

The LNG used to come all the way from Isle of Grain by road. So rail to Inverness is a big improvement.

Rail to Georgemas Jn would be even better.

I think I heard road transport from Kent mentioned somewhere in connection with the more environmentally friendly ferries which may one day sail from Uig.
Here's hoping that rail to Inverness could be possible, though the scope to do that along with gas to Wick and possibly other local systems would be limited if reliant on spare space on the "Tescotrain".

 

[Cheshire Scot]

I think I heard road transport from Kent mentioned somewhere in connection with the more environmentally friendly ferries which may one day sail from Uig.

In many ways the logical way to supply Uig from Kent might be by sea but perhaps the volume would be insufficient or require extensive storage provision.
By way of precedent for oil and petroleum products for the Inverness area arrive by sea for road distribution from a storage facility at Inverness Harbour. I am fairly sure Stornoway also receives fuel by sea.

 

[Taunton]

Often such isolated gas systems are hangovers from the days when towns had independent gas works, supplied with coal by rail. just circulated in a local area. They actually pre-dated electricity networks, and were used for gas lighting etc as well as domestic supply. There was no country-wide grid, which only arrived with "North Sea Gas" in the 1970s.

 

[Penmorfa]

Anyone remember back in the 70's? when containers were taken on the Far North line by passenger trains? It was a clever system using vacuum braked passenger stock and air braked liner flats.

 

[xotGD]

I am fairly sure Stornoway also receives fuel by sea.

The gas network there operates on LPG which is, as you say, delivered by sea.

 

[simonw]

The LNG used to come all the way from Isle of Grain by road. So rail to Inverness is a big improvement.

Rail to Georgemas Jn would be even better.

Until recently LNG came from the LNG storage at glenmavis built by the British Gas Corporation. This was decommissioned in 2011. It's primary purpose wasn't the supply of Wick etc but to supply gas in very cold weather.

The gas was then supplied from a similar facility at Avonmouth. However that has also closed, so The gas will be coming from the importation facility at the isle of grain.

 

[Pugwash]

I think I heard road transport from Kent mentioned somewhere in connection with the more environmentally friendly ferries which may one day sail from Uig.
Here's hoping that rail to Inverness could be possible, though the scope to do that along with gas to Wick and possibly other local systems would be limited if reliant on spare space on the "Tescotrain".

Would seem a better solution to build a small refrigerant plant near St Fergus on the UK Gas Network rather than putting it in a refrigerated container the whole length of the country.

 

[stuving]

Would seem a better solution to build a small refrigerant plant near St Fergus on the UK Gas Network rather than putting it in a refrigerated container the whole length of the country.

That's how LNG for the four mainland Scottish "SIUs" (statutory independent undertakings) was sourced until Glenmavis, and then Avonmouth (2016), closed down. Gas was liquefied there to form a buffer to meet peak demand; that is no longer required by the network so there is no purpose to justify the costs of running the plant. Isle of Grain imports LNG, so it is available from there without the cost of liquefying it. There are only two other import terminals, both in south Wales.

There are some details on this subject (if you hunt a bit) in this SGN business plan from 2019. It relates to the new transport arrangements for using Grain LNG, based on using rail as much as possible:

 

[mcmad]

I can't help but feel there must be a closer transhipment point to Isle of Grain than Daventry! The whole thing smacks of greenwashing more than usual.

 

[m0ffy]

I can't help but feel there must be a closer transhipment point to Isle of Grain than Daventry! The whole thing smacks of greenwashing more than usual.

That’s where the Tesco trains begin/terminate

 

[Trainbike46]

That’s where the Tesco trains begin/terminate

So these are always in Tesco trains?

 

[Christmas]

Is this the same train that used to be called the 'Safeway Flyer'?
I remember, prior to Morrisons buying Safeway that there was such a service to Inverness.

 

[DelW]

I can't help but feel there must be a closer transhipment point to Isle of Grain than Daventry! The whole thing smacks of greenwashing more than usual.

Even without the need to join the Tesco service, it's possibly partly a result of there being no railway equivalent of the M25 via the Dartford Crossing*. Isle of Grain to/from Daventry by train is probably convoluted and slow, presumably it would have to go via Clapham and the West London line which is all rather busy already. Unless there's an existing intermodal service on the route which it could utilise, it would hardly be economic to move two containers at a time either.

(*Edit: post #24 states that the gas move is not allowed to use the Dartford tunnel.)

 

[MadMac]

That's how LNG for the four mainland Scottish "SIUs" (statutory independent undertakings) was sourced until Glenmavis, and then Avonmouth (2016), closed down. Gas was liquefied there to form a buffer to meet peak demand; that is no longer required by the network so there is no purpose to justify the costs of running the plant. Isle of Grain imports LNG, so it is available from there without the cost of liquefying it. There are only two other import terminals, both in south Wales.

For those wondering, the Natural Gas SIUs in Scotland are Campbeltown, Oban, Wick and Thurso. There is also apparently one in Wales.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Is this the same train that used to be called the 'Safeway Flyer'?
I remember, prior to Morrisons buying Safeway that there was such a service to Inverness.

Timings are different and Safeway carried only time sensitive refrigerated goods - including latterly Georgemas for Wick, Thurso and Orkney - whilst Tesco goods are all in normal containers and presumably less time sensitive.

 

[8stewartt]

The gas comes from the isle of grain by road to Daventry, the long way around the M25 due to being banned from the Dartford tunnel. They travel north using S44/S45. When they get to Mossend they get transshipped onto the Inverness Tesco train, then roaded from there to Wick and Shetland.

 

[plugwash]

Would seem a better solution to build a small refrigerant plant near St Fergus on the UK Gas Network rather than putting it in a refrigerated container the whole length of the country.

My understanding is it's a bit more complex than just refrigeration, because "pipeline natrual gas" contains imprurities that must be seperated (and presumablly stored somehow) in the liquification process.

 

[m0ffy]

Would seem a better solution to build a small refrigerant plant near St Fergus on the UK Gas Network rather than putting it in a refrigerated container the whole length of the country.

I imagine that would be much more expensive for SGN than this method.

 

[jagardner1984]

Forgive stupid question - but refrigerated containers like this - do they run a small diesel generator to keep cool in transit like a supermarket trailer when the tractor engine is off ?

The Safeway train is referred to above, are there other examples of refrigerated food etc on the UK freight network ?

 

[zwk500]

I can't help but feel there must be a closer transhipment point to Isle of Grain than Daventry! The whole thing smacks of greenwashing more than usual.

Daventry is the nearest rail container terminal to Grain that isn't itself another port (London Gateway is definitely closer, not sure of Harwich and Felixstowe are)

Even without the need to join the Tesco service, it's possibly partly a result of there being no railway equivalent of the M25 via the Dartford Crossing*. Isle of Grain to/from Daventry by train is probably convoluted and slow, presumably it would have to go via Clapham and the West London line which is all rather busy already. Unless there's an existing intermodal service on the route which it could utilise, it would hardly be economic to move two containers at a time either.

(*Edit: post #24 states that the gas move is not allowed to use the Dartford tunnel.)

Gauge may be an issue - the Channel Tunnel freight routes were improved but it think S44/S45 container swapbodies need W9a loading gauge, and I don't think all the diversionary routes were cleared to that level. Happy to be corrected.

 

[xotGD]

Forgive stupid question - but refrigerated containers like this - do they run a small diesel generator to keep cool in transit like a supermarket trailer when the tractor engine is off ?

The Safeway train is referred to above, are there other examples of refrigerated food etc on the UK freight network ?

There is a slow heat leak into the LNG tanks which results in the pressure increasing as the temperature rises. If you left one sat around for too long it would reach the point where the pressure relief valve would lift, ejecting cryogenic 2-phase flow of methane into the air. A situation to be avoided!

 

[paul1609]

The gas comes from the isle of grain by road to Daventry, the long way around the M25 due to being banned from the Dartford tunnel. They travel north using S44/S45. When they get to Mossend they get transshipped onto the Inverness Tesco train, then roaded from there to Wick and Shetland.

Whilst it's undoubtedly the long way round if your exit from the M25 is the M1 via Heathrow isnt perhaps as far as you'd expect from Kent it's about an extra 30 miles entering at Junc 2 - A2 or 15 miles at Junc 5 - M26 (M20). At off peak times the extra distance will often be quicker than waiting an escort at Dartford. ( I realise that gas tankers are banned).