Tates Travel, Barnsley

[HMS Ark Royal]

The news which has come as quite of a shock this afternoon is that one of the independents will cease trading from the end of service tonight. Tates Travel of Barnsley have slowly been cutting back their services after Island Fortitude run the company into the ground several years back, never the less since they became independently owned again they have put up an impressive fight to keep their services running as best they could.

The large majority of Tates' fleet was improved over the last 6 years, being fully DDA compliant with a large amount of newly purchased vehicles. There is no news yet as to where they will go, although the newer ones will be snapped up quickly, and none of the services have yet to be covered - although it is my understanding that emergency cover may be provided for the schools services by Stagecoach or Arriva

Tates Fleet As Of Today

 

[mikeg]

Indeed quite surprising. Last time I was in the area their buses seemed well patronised.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Indeed quite surprising. Last time I was in the area their buses seemed well patronised.

Seems they've also been cooking the books and being rude to passengers - that and the founder being a complete b*****d doesn't help matters. Regardless of that, though, it means more people out of work

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Who ever purchases YX62FEU or YX11 HNV may as well tow them to PVS Barnsley as that is all their fit for. Don't get me started on the lack of maintainance, both mentioned vehicles had profound problems with one with something knackered in the engine bay and the other loose or broken suspension.

The problems with Tates were the constant cancelling of the last journeys of the day on the 96/97's out of Wakefield. One person was even going to take Tates to court because the poor sod lost around £500 in wages of constantly being late for work because of the poor punctuality of Tates (the persons employer got to know about the problems as time went on).

I'd be also wary about that fleetlist, the website hasn't been updated since 2012.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

I'd be also wary about that fleetlist, the website hasn't been updated since 2012.

Found an up to date one - link has been adjusted accordingly

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Tates had gone through a period of rapid expansion in the last 18 months, followed by an equally fast shrinkage in the last 6 months or so. They'd taken on a number of tendered (Dewsbury free town bus) and commercial (the 213 Dewsbury to Morley via the Hospital and Batley, now run by Arriva, for example) services in North Kirklees but the fleet allocated to these services was quite a mish-mash in terms of quality, livery and suitability. The 213 in particular was often run by deckers in a strange green and yellow livery which advertised non-existent on-board WiFi, and very slippy e-leather seats most of which had huge slashes all over them. The service didn't really need deckers, a Solo would have sufficed quite comfortably in my experience and took a very circuitous route from Dewsbury to the Hospital and then on to Batley.

EDIT: Found the culprit on the fleetlist provided by HMS Ark Royal. Only one listed there but there may have had more. Can't have helped that all buses had to return to Barugh Green each night, surprised they didn't have a base or outstation nearer to Dewsbury.

 

[mbonwick]

Another victim of the Island Fortitude saga.

 

[shedman]

Tates had gone through a period of rapid expansion in the last 18 months, followed by an equally fast shrinkage in the last 6 months or so. They'd taken on a number of tendered (Dewsbury free town bus) and commercial (the 213 Dewsbury to Morley via the Hospital and Batley, now run by Arriva, for example) services in North Kirklees but the fleet allocated to these services was quite a mish-mash in terms of quality, livery and suitability. The 213 in particular was often run by deckers in a strange green and yellow livery which advertised non-existent on-board WiFi, and very slippy e-leather seats most of which had huge slashes all over them. The service didn't really need deckers, a Solo would have sufficed quite comfortably in my experience and took a very circuitous route from Dewsbury to the Hospital and then on to Batley.

EDIT: Found the culprit on the fleetlist provided by HMS Ark Royal. Only one listed there but there may have had more. Can't have helped that all buses had to return to Barugh Green each night, surprised they didn't have a base or outstation nearer to Dewsbury.

The deckers came from Bakers Bus in Staffordshire and retained their "hybrid" livery. The wifi adverts were removed but as with all stickers on the exterior of vehicles the dirt clinged on and made it visible again! The reason they were on the 213 was because of the schools contracts attached (213 was a tendered service Batley to Morley and commercial Dewsbury to Batley), obviously it made more sense to keep them there all day. I know they were costing a fortune to lease but perhaps the reduced fuel costs through hybrid meant it was just as worth while hanging around than running dead to and from Barnsley both before and after the school runs since they were in the area

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Another victim of the Island Fortitude saga.

How that company is still operating is beyond belief...

From what I have seen online, a few drivers have managed to get jobs elsewhere already but the rest will not get anything except for state help. Seems that Tates are/were so heavily in debt, they couldn't afford wage bills - hell... they couldn't even pay the NMW when ORDERED to!

As predicted, Stagecoach and Arriva - plus Yorkshire Tiger, an Arriva sub brand - have stepped in under emergency rules from the PTE and the TC to take up certain services.

Makes you wonder who will be the next poor buggers to go bust
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I think I might just order myself a copy of the last set of valid figures for Rosa Holdings Ltd who traded as Tates.

Ironically, we briefly talked about another IFI business that went bust and then came back under a different and yet almost the same name at the York meet

 

[WestRiding]

Thank god for that. Tates have been absolute rubbish on the routes through Ackworth. 485 and 28, often never turn up, driven by the local tramps. Bring back Stagecoach for 28 and Arriva for 485. They are only interested in running buses on week days until 6pm, if 485 is to go by.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Tates had gone through a period of rapid expansion in the last 18 months, followed by an equally fast shrinkage in the last 6 months or so. They'd taken on a number of tendered (Dewsbury free town bus) and commercial (the 213 Dewsbury to Morley via the Hospital and Batley, now run by Arriva, for example) services in North Kirklees but the fleet allocated to these services was quite a mish-mash in terms of quality, livery and suitability. The 213 in particular was often run by deckers in a strange green and yellow livery which advertised non-existent on-board WiFi, and very slippy e-leather seats most of which had huge slashes all over them. The service didn't really need deckers, a Solo would have sufficed quite comfortably in my experience and took a very circuitous route from Dewsbury to the Hospital and then on to Batley.

EDIT: Found the culprit on the fleetlist provided by HMS Ark Royal. Only one listed there but there may have had more. Can't have helped that all buses had to return to Barugh Green each night, surprised they didn't have a base or outstation nearer to Dewsbury.

I'm suprised myself that Tates didn't use the old Stanley Garth yard at Ravensthorpe as an outstation wha with Tates taking over the running of them when SG went into liquidation, no idea if the yard is still there or not unless the buildings have been pulled down.

Going by what I've read elsewhere online the Green and Yellow decker was from Bakerbus, another company which had dealings with I.F.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

I'm suprised myself that Tates didn't use the old Stanley Garth yard at Ravensthorpe as an outstation wha with Tates taking over the running of them when SG went into liquidation, no idea if the yard is still there or not unless the buildings have been pulled down.

Going by what I've read elsewhere online the Green and Yellow decker was from Bakerbus, another company which had dealings with I.F.

Bakerbus is just another arm of IF - the biggest bunch of cowboy runners since the dawn of time... Makes what Stagecoach did in their early days look like nothing! SC may have had some inkling as to what might have been happening as I've been told by a very good source that they moved some extra buses over to their Barnsley arm - just what you'd need if a company went bust.

However, the main point is that most of their drivers are out of work, though TM Travel seem to have taken one or two on

 

[Robertj21a]

However, the main point is that most of their drivers are out of work, though TM Travel seem to have taken one or two on

Many parts of the country seem to be experiencing driver shortages. Any idea if it's the same in that area ?

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

I can't say for certain, though I would have to guess this to be the case seeing as how some Tates services never turned up... To be honest, I think the company were on life support after the october ruling that fined them a fair amount and orders enforced on them regarding ticket machines and retiming - not that they ever complied with it.

As suspected, other operators have been given some routes using emergency powers

Tates Services Run by Other Companies

At this rate, the only independent left in Yorkshire will be East Yorkshire Motor Services

 

[Andyh82]

I can't say for certain, though I would have to guess this to be the case seeing as how some Tates services never turned up... To be honest, I think the company were on life support after the october ruling that fined them a fair amount and orders enforced on them regarding ticket machines and retiming - not that they ever complied with it.

As suspected, other operators have been given some routes using emergency powers

Tates Services Run by Other Companies

At this rate, the only independent left in Yorkshire will be East Yorkshire Motor Services

Bit of an over reaction, there are many quality long established independents in West Yorkshire alone.

There were 3 of the hybrid double decks by the way, they seem to work for Globe Tours who are or were connected to Tates, on Leeds Area schools.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Yes, I know, but if you happen to read Notices and Procedures every week (you can get it emailed to you for free) you can see a good number of small operators closing up...

 

[johntea]

As soon as I found out about this my perhaps one and only experience with travelling with them came to mind!

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=114735

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

As soon as I found out about this my perhaps one and only experience with travelling with them came to mind!

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=114735

Sounds about right...!

Mind you, seems Tates might be back under a new guise because they went into administration which could mean they get sold back to the original owner with all debts cleared. I believe the Globe side of business is working fine - but some coaches left last night and this morning for destinations unknown

 

[Robertj21a]

Sounds about right...!

Mind you, seems Tates might be back under a new guise because they went into administration which could mean they get sold back to the original owner with all debts cleared. I believe the Globe side of business is working fine - but some coaches left last night and this morning for destinations unknown

I understand that Receivers were appointed yesterday. Any bus work now (re-) started will, presumably, be on the Globe/Rosa discs.

 

[Bungle965]

To me it seems it seems to be a story that i hear far to often,off expanding too quickly and as a result not having enough money in the bank to even pay drivers their drivers, which really is a sad state of affairs. I am all for interdependent company`s but for them to work successfully they need to find the right balance.
A side point were Tates Travel the only company which had the King Long buses on revenue earning service?
Sam

 

[ECML180]

Word on the street is that they were is the process of or had just lost an amount of coach work, on top of the bus work they were already struggling with, especially with drivers sensing what was coming and jumping ship. I can't give an exact amount but a significant number of drivers have already been taken on by other operators, across the area.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Word on the street is that they were is the process of or had just lost an amount of coach work, on top of the bus work they were already struggling with, especially with drivers sensing what was coming and jumping ship. I can't give an exact amount but a significant number of drivers have already been taken on by other operators, across the area.

Thats also what I heard - even made their own drivers sign new starter forms in an attempt, I would guess, to let hem pay them less money

I understand that Receivers were appointed yesterday. Any bus work now (re-) started will, presumably, be on the Globe/Rosa discs.

Well it was Rosa T/A as Tates Travel

 

[WestRiding]

One benefit of the dire Tates going is that Stagecoach have taken all their Number 28s meaning that once again, a Stagecoach Return Fare to Ponty for example can be used on all services without having to fathom out which service 28 is Tates or Stagecoach. A step back towards an integrated transport. A route number should never be shared between two companies because of the tickets not been valid on each others services. METRO should know better.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

One benefit of the dire Tates going is that Stagecoach have taken all their Number 28s meaning that once again, a Stagecoach Return Fare to Ponty for example can be used on all services without having to fathom out which service 28 is Tates or Stagecoach. A step back towards an integrated transport. A route number should never be shared between two companies because of the tickets not been valid on each others services. METRO should know better.

That's been a problem for a long time in West Yorkshire, in particular the 231/232 Huddersfield to Wakefield services which are Yorkshire Tiger mon-sat daytimes, First evenings and Arriva (who despite OWNING Yorkshire Tiger don't accept their weekly tickets) on Sundays. Not to mention that as of this weekend, Sunday evening services on the 229 (Huddersfield-Batley-Leeds) will now be operated by First. In Metro's defence though they do insist that all operators offer their multi-operator day ticket on buses which is not much more than most single operator day tickets. There aren't longer-period versions available on the bus though.

Then there's the issues of the same numbers being used on different routes. Not a major problem when one 82 is in the South side of Huddersfield and the other is in Leeds although it does make it slightly tricky to find timetables on the Metro website, but at Dewsbury there are two different 205s by two different operators (Longstaff to Mirfield and Arriva to Pudsey Owlcotes). With over 1,000 possible numbers when letter prefixes are available, it doesn't need to happen and it shouldn't happen.

 

[Statto]

That's been a problem for a long time in West Yorkshire, in particular the 231/232 Huddersfield to Wakefield services which are Yorkshire Tiger mon-sat daytimes, First evenings and Arriva (who despite OWNING Yorkshire Tiger don't accept their weekly tickets) on Sundays. Not to mention that as of this weekend, Sunday evening services on the 229 (Huddersfield-Batley-Leeds) will now be operated by First. In Metro's defence though they do insist that all operators offer their multi-operator day ticket on buses which is not much more than most single operator day tickets. There aren't longer-period versions available on the bus though.

Then there's the issues of the same numbers being used on different routes. Not a major problem when one 82 is in the South side of Huddersfield and the other is in Leeds although it does make it slightly tricky to find timetables on the Metro website, but at Dewsbury there are two different 205s by two different operators (Longstaff to Mirfield and Arriva to Pudsey Owlcotes). With over 1,000 possible numbers when letter prefixes are available, it doesn't need to happen and it shouldn't happen.

If you think that's bad you should visit Chester where there are 3 number 1s, one operated by Stagecoach, one by Arriva & one an Arriva/Stagecoach QBP, used to be worse as there were a couple of 2s, 3s, 4s ecc but they've been renumbered or withdrawn.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

That's been a problem for a long time in West Yorkshire, in particular the 231/232 Huddersfield to Wakefield services which are Yorkshire Tiger mon-sat daytimes, First evenings and Arriva (who despite OWNING Yorkshire Tiger don't accept their weekly tickets) on Sundays. Not to mention that as of this weekend, Sunday evening services on the 229 (Huddersfield-Batley-Leeds) will now be operated by First. In Metro's defence though they do insist that all operators offer their multi-operator day ticket on buses which is not much more than most single operator day tickets. There aren't longer-period versions available on the bus though.

Then there's the issues of the same numbers being used on different routes. Not a major problem when one 82 is in the South side of Huddersfield and the other is in Leeds although it does make it slightly tricky to find timetables on the Metro website, but at Dewsbury there are two different 205s by two different operators (Longstaff to Mirfield and Arriva to Pudsey Owlcotes). With over 1,000 possible numbers when letter prefixes are available, it doesn't need to happen and it shouldn't happen.

Used to have that situation on the old 5 route in Hull

 

[NorthernSpirit]

That's been a problem for a long time in West Yorkshire, in particular the 231/232 Huddersfield to Wakefield services which are Yorkshire Tiger mon-sat daytimes, First evenings and Arriva (who despite OWNING Yorkshire Tiger don't accept their weekly tickets) on Sundays. QUOTE]

I remember when it was Stagecoach running the show, they use to run all of the 231 and 232 journeys until around six months before Centrebus took over when the Evenings and Sundays were transferred to Arriva.

 

[SCH117X]

If you think that's bad you should visit Chester where there are 3 number 1s, one operated by Stagecoach, one by Arriva & one an Arriva/Stagecoach QBP, used to be worse as there were a couple of 2s, 3s, 4s ecc but they've been renumbered or withdrawn.

Theres the barking mad case of X6 in Harrogate. The Transdev X6 is an genuine express service that operates peak periods only, the out of am peak Connexions X6 is an all stops service along a similar route but not wholly identical, the Connexions X6a being more similar to the route of the Transdev X6 but again is all stops, Connexions think the X means conneXions rather than eXpress

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I remember when it was Stagecoach running the show, they use to run all of the 231 and 232 journeys until around six months before Centrebus took over when the Evenings and Sundays were transferred to Arriva.

That'll have been shortly after Stagecoach took over Yorkshire Tracky, before they decided to pull out of the Huddersfield area and sell off Waterloo depot. I suppose splitting was inevitable once all the Huddersfield to Barnsley services were cut.

 

[Andyh82]

but at Dewsbury there are two different 205s by two different operators (Longstaff to Mirfield and Arriva to Pudsey Owlcotes). With over 1,000 possible numbers when letter prefixes are available, it doesn't need to happen and it shouldn't happen.

The 205 used to be a through service Mirfield to Pudsey, when Arriva gave up the Mirfield to Dewsbury section, they presumably didn't want to re number the other half, a situation that has continued to this day.

However, this situation is pretty much the only one in the whole of West Yorkshire, so it isn't a widespread issue. Any other duplicate numbers are generally many miles apart and often one of them will be a cross boundary service (like the 28, 29, 38 etc)