telstarbox
Established Member
To avoid derailing the other thread. For those of you who have EVs, what are the pros and cons of yours and what sort of mileage are you doing each week.
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Tell us about your electric vehicle
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Car 1: 2014 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV. Does around 200-250km per week. EV range when new was around 40km, now down to around 20km as the battery is pretty worn. Originally purchased as needed a one car family vehicle than could tow, and at the time there were very few EV options for this without spending mega bucks. Will replace in the future with a dedicated EV when budget allows as it's using more fuel than I would like. No issues though with it, has around 170K km on the ODO. Pros: very versatile family car with plenty of space, low running costs as long you plug in. Cons: Battery wear means car is more like a mild hybrid now. Newer versions have larger batteries which should improve this.
Car 2: 2018 40kWh Nissan Leaf, replaced a 2012 Gen 1 24kWh Nissan Leaf. Between 200 and 300km per week. Went to two cars thanks to a house move and grabbed the Gen 1 Leaf as a commuter and kid runabout. Had 51K km when purchased, drove to 123K km and sold it when its range was starting to get restrictive (around 90km max). Aside from the limited range it was a great car, cheap as chips to run, a good size and zero issues. Gen 2 Leaf has more bells and whistles, and the increased range is tasty after the older car (around 230km). Slightly less rear seat room than the older version which appears to have been sacrificed for a larger boot. Pros: Not much to dislike, drives well, enough space for two adults and two teenage kids, has an aftermarket app for diagnosing issues and monitoring battery performance (Leaf Spy), plenty of them out there so spare parts are easy to find and are a genuine second hand option on price parity with equivalent ICE cars. Cons: None unless you are doing long road trips, in that case either get a long range version or go for something else in the EV market.
I should note that we have off street parking and charge off standard 240V outlets, and also have trickle charging available at both of our workplaces so basically never need to use public chargers.
Car 2: 2018 40kWh Nissan Leaf, replaced a 2012 Gen 1 24kWh Nissan Leaf. Between 200 and 300km per week. Went to two cars thanks to a house move and grabbed the Gen 1 Leaf as a commuter and kid runabout. Had 51K km when purchased, drove to 123K km and sold it when its range was starting to get restrictive (around 90km max). Aside from the limited range it was a great car, cheap as chips to run, a good size and zero issues. Gen 2 Leaf has more bells and whistles, and the increased range is tasty after the older car (around 230km). Slightly less rear seat room than the older version which appears to have been sacrificed for a larger boot. Pros: Not much to dislike, drives well, enough space for two adults and two teenage kids, has an aftermarket app for diagnosing issues and monitoring battery performance (Leaf Spy), plenty of them out there so spare parts are easy to find and are a genuine second hand option on price parity with equivalent ICE cars. Cons: None unless you are doing long road trips, in that case either get a long range version or go for something else in the EV market.
I should note that we have off street parking and charge off standard 240V outlets, and also have trickle charging available at both of our workplaces so basically never need to use public chargers.
telstarbox
Established Member
Good insight, thanks!
pdq
Member
- Joined
- 7 Oct 2010
- Messages
- 813
Unlike the previous poster, I am a newbee to EVs. We have a new Kia Niro EV, delivered on March 1st. I have covered just over 3100 miles in that time - mostly my 10 mile hilly commute, but a few motorway runs in there as well. Generally I do 120-150 miles a week, not counting days out and longer adhoc journeys, of which there have been a few.
We bought the car to replace our previous leased Octavia. Clearly a new EV is expensive, but the Niro reviews were good and the size suited us. I also tried out a Hyundai Kona, and we initially looked at nearly new not brand new. Despite the significant premium for a new car, the finance deal available only on the new Kia tipped the balance that way. I would probably have gone for the Kona if the finance had been more favourable, but the two cars are basically the same underneath.
My initial 'man maths' indicated a fuel saving per year of £1600 over ICE, based on 12,000 miles, 40mpg, £1.45 per litre, vs 9p/kWh and 3.5 miles/kWh. We've actually transferred more miles than we anticipated from our petrol cars and we've moved to a 7.35p tariff, so I'm currently seeing a potential fuel saving of £2k a year. Over the warranty period of the car (7 years) this more than covers the premium over the equivalent petrol car. We're on PCP so if used EV prices crash in the next 3 years, we have some protection.
The efficiency started around 3 miles/kWh and this has gradually increased as the weather has warmed up. The overall average since new is now sitting at 3.6. I think we're in the sweet spot at the moment where neither heating nor cooling is required to any significant degree: since the last full charge, I have averaged 4.7 miles/kWh over 100 miles, but there's only been one 10 mile motorway run in that. If I continue at this rate, the current full charge will see 270 miles if I were to take it down to empty.
Usually I charge to 80% then recharge when the range is getting down to 50 miles, or sooner when I know I've got a longer journey. We've got a Hypervolt charger on the drive - chosen because it was due to be compatible with Ovo Charge Anytime, which is 7.35/kWh. We went for one of the more expensive installers with a 5 year installation warranty, so the full install price was around £1200. We could have got this charger for £1050 from a cheaper installer, or got a cheaper charger, but a saving of £250 with potentially poorer support didn't seem the right way to go.
I'm not too concerned about the lower efficiency in the winter. A heatpump was an option, but at £1000 I would never recoup that, and I can pre-heat the car at home when it's really cold. If I was consistently doing longer journeys, then the increased range that comes with increased efficiency would be useful, but at the outset we knew that long journeys would be the exception.
That brings me to journey length/charging etc. If there's such a thing as a non-sweet-spot, then a journey of 100-120 miles is that. It's short enough to do in one stint, but too far to comfortably do the return journey without a charge, especially when it's cold. But it only takes a 15 minute boost at any point, so really no hassle. We've done it twice, and it was so easy, albeit comparatively expensive. But just like you'd not routinely fill up with petrol at motorway services, so an electric top-up away from home is an exception. We just put in a tenner or so, which was more than enough to get us home and onto the overnight charger.
Driving experience - so far so excellent. Yes it's a bit heavy, but we've bought a family car not a roadster. The instant and consistent torque is so impressive, and I think my driving style has become more relaxed as there's no change of gear and the car's always ready to pull. In traffic it's a dream. Set it to one pedal control and it's possible to crawl at ridiculously low speeds, even uphill. Whenever I'm behind a dirty diesel or an old petrol burning oil, I do feel a bit 'smug' that I am not polluting the local atmosphere.
Cons? Nothing at all with EV as a concept. A couple of very minor gripes with the individual car model: I'm slightly disappointed with the heater - I was expecting heat to be instant, like switching on a fan heater, but in reality it's a bit slow to react. Other very minor niggles include a digital speedo 'dial' that goes all the way to 160mph. WHY? The car's max is just over the ton so all driving takes place with the needle less than '12 o'clock'! Wireless Android Auto would have been nice (previous Skoda had this). And the Kia Connect app is great at prompting me that I've parked with the sunroof ajar, but it isn't clever enough that I can tell it to close remotely. Can you tell I've been caught out by that? I get the feeling that a 'simply clever' Skoda would have thought that through. As you can tell, if those are all I'm whinging about, then there's not much wrong.
We bought the car to replace our previous leased Octavia. Clearly a new EV is expensive, but the Niro reviews were good and the size suited us. I also tried out a Hyundai Kona, and we initially looked at nearly new not brand new. Despite the significant premium for a new car, the finance deal available only on the new Kia tipped the balance that way. I would probably have gone for the Kona if the finance had been more favourable, but the two cars are basically the same underneath.
My initial 'man maths' indicated a fuel saving per year of £1600 over ICE, based on 12,000 miles, 40mpg, £1.45 per litre, vs 9p/kWh and 3.5 miles/kWh. We've actually transferred more miles than we anticipated from our petrol cars and we've moved to a 7.35p tariff, so I'm currently seeing a potential fuel saving of £2k a year. Over the warranty period of the car (7 years) this more than covers the premium over the equivalent petrol car. We're on PCP so if used EV prices crash in the next 3 years, we have some protection.
The efficiency started around 3 miles/kWh and this has gradually increased as the weather has warmed up. The overall average since new is now sitting at 3.6. I think we're in the sweet spot at the moment where neither heating nor cooling is required to any significant degree: since the last full charge, I have averaged 4.7 miles/kWh over 100 miles, but there's only been one 10 mile motorway run in that. If I continue at this rate, the current full charge will see 270 miles if I were to take it down to empty.
Usually I charge to 80% then recharge when the range is getting down to 50 miles, or sooner when I know I've got a longer journey. We've got a Hypervolt charger on the drive - chosen because it was due to be compatible with Ovo Charge Anytime, which is 7.35/kWh. We went for one of the more expensive installers with a 5 year installation warranty, so the full install price was around £1200. We could have got this charger for £1050 from a cheaper installer, or got a cheaper charger, but a saving of £250 with potentially poorer support didn't seem the right way to go.
I'm not too concerned about the lower efficiency in the winter. A heatpump was an option, but at £1000 I would never recoup that, and I can pre-heat the car at home when it's really cold. If I was consistently doing longer journeys, then the increased range that comes with increased efficiency would be useful, but at the outset we knew that long journeys would be the exception.
That brings me to journey length/charging etc. If there's such a thing as a non-sweet-spot, then a journey of 100-120 miles is that. It's short enough to do in one stint, but too far to comfortably do the return journey without a charge, especially when it's cold. But it only takes a 15 minute boost at any point, so really no hassle. We've done it twice, and it was so easy, albeit comparatively expensive. But just like you'd not routinely fill up with petrol at motorway services, so an electric top-up away from home is an exception. We just put in a tenner or so, which was more than enough to get us home and onto the overnight charger.
Driving experience - so far so excellent. Yes it's a bit heavy, but we've bought a family car not a roadster. The instant and consistent torque is so impressive, and I think my driving style has become more relaxed as there's no change of gear and the car's always ready to pull. In traffic it's a dream. Set it to one pedal control and it's possible to crawl at ridiculously low speeds, even uphill. Whenever I'm behind a dirty diesel or an old petrol burning oil, I do feel a bit 'smug' that I am not polluting the local atmosphere.
Cons? Nothing at all with EV as a concept. A couple of very minor gripes with the individual car model: I'm slightly disappointed with the heater - I was expecting heat to be instant, like switching on a fan heater, but in reality it's a bit slow to react. Other very minor niggles include a digital speedo 'dial' that goes all the way to 160mph. WHY? The car's max is just over the ton so all driving takes place with the needle less than '12 o'clock'! Wireless Android Auto would have been nice (previous Skoda had this). And the Kia Connect app is great at prompting me that I've parked with the sunroof ajar, but it isn't clever enough that I can tell it to close remotely. Can you tell I've been caught out by that? I get the feeling that a 'simply clever' Skoda would have thought that through. As you can tell, if those are all I'm whinging about, then there's not much wrong.
Hello,
We have a 2017 Renault Zoe with the 22kw battery pack, owned from new on a very cheap deal being one of the last 22kw battery vehicles and the dealer was looking to move it on. Usually will do around 80 miles on a charge, but we only use it for short journeys so don't need a longer range or to to charge it away from the House.
After a few teething troubles including a new motor that Renault resolved under warranty has been trouble free and is perfect for short trips around the city.
We now only pay for the battery lease which is £60 a month, Renault Finance have offered us a discount to pay this off, but this would mean no 10 year warranty. It's a great 2nd car for us, but in terms of number of journeys, but not miles gets used more than our Diesel Volvo.
The Renault Zoe has now done about 36,000 miles.
We have a 2017 Renault Zoe with the 22kw battery pack, owned from new on a very cheap deal being one of the last 22kw battery vehicles and the dealer was looking to move it on. Usually will do around 80 miles on a charge, but we only use it for short journeys so don't need a longer range or to to charge it away from the House.
After a few teething troubles including a new motor that Renault resolved under warranty has been trouble free and is perfect for short trips around the city.
We now only pay for the battery lease which is £60 a month, Renault Finance have offered us a discount to pay this off, but this would mean no 10 year warranty. It's a great 2nd car for us, but in terms of number of journeys, but not miles gets used more than our Diesel Volvo.
The Renault Zoe has now done about 36,000 miles.
Shimbleshanks
Member
I replaced my temperamental, unreliable petrol mower with a battery-electric about five years ago. Best thing I ever did.
GRALISTAIR
Established Member
I have only driven one as a rental not owned one - but I agree with these sentiments. Really quiet. I enjoyed driving it. It was a Tesla.
I believe a car sold by a car maker in the UK has by Act of Parliament a warranty, the warranty is for range , battery life in miles or years, and a specification for battery degradation in capacity, the warranty is a requirement for the vehicle to be classed as a ZEV and the warranty is not a "perk" offered by the manufacturer.
Do you have the details of the battery warranty for your car to post on the forum?
pdq
Member
- Joined
- 7 Oct 2010
- Messages
- 813
I previously drove a 2021 MG5 EV Long Range, which did everything I needed it to and never gave me any trouble. The only reason I don't have it anymore is because I needed the money to put towards a house purchase quite urgently, otherwise I'd almost certainly still have it now. The friend I sold it to is really happy with it though, as is my partner's grandfather with his own MG5, which he bought brand new after having a look around mine. I'd definitely buy another EV in the next few years or so, more than likely another MG5 or possibly a Volkswagen ID7 Tourer, I'll have to see what I can afford when the time comes.
My partner drives a Volkswagen ID3 Pro S, which is excellent for our local mileage and her twice weekly trips to Liverpool. It's a very good car to drive and feels very well put together. I have a friend who drives an ID3 with the smaller battery, they're also really happy with theirs.
My partner drives a Volkswagen ID3 Pro S, which is excellent for our local mileage and her twice weekly trips to Liverpool. It's a very good car to drive and feels very well put together. I have a friend who drives an ID3 with the smaller battery, they're also really happy with theirs.
Harpers Tate
Established Member
- Joined
- 10 May 2013
- Messages
- 1,730
I first stepped cautiously into EV use in the autumn of 2017. We had previously used from new a diesel SUV and at 12+ years old and 120k miles, it was practically worthless as a part-exchange, so I bought the new EV - a Hyundai Ioniq - for cash in full. As we were new to EV and apprehensive about things like range (the new car quoted only 130 miles) we held on to the diesel - the only time we have had two cars - "just in case". But we were determined to make as much use of the EV as we could. And, as it turned out, the diesel only came out on four occasions in the 8 or 9 months we held on to it, and all of those occasions weren't necessary; merely to ensure it still worked. And so after those 8 or 9 months, I sold it privately and relied solely on the EV for all our use.
We make a mixture of relatively short local trips and more occasional longer ones and we found it worked for all and any - with a little planning.
Two years later, Hyundai had released an updated version of the same car, with a greater range. Without any real intention to buy, I visited the dealer who offered a part exchange value around 80% of the initial purchase price coupled with a substantial discount on the brand new but pre-registered updated model. And so I changed to what is my current car - a 2019 year Hyundai Ioniq Electric.
It has a theoretical range of just under 200 miles. In practice that varies between around 175 and 230 depending on climate and driving style. And that is plenty for our use. The car is comfortable, quiet (as all EVs are), and very easy to drive. It has unremarkable performance, as this model was designed for efficiency over speed. And it is very efficient - probably one of the most efficient cars ever mass produced. It manages those +/-200 miles on just 38.3kWh stored power. It does on average well over 5 miles per kWh. A domestic recharge overnight at under 7p/unit (the price I will be paying for the next year fixed) works out at around 1.4p/mile fuel cost.
At 35000 miles, it is still on the original tyres, and none of the brake components have needed replacing. It will need new tyres soon.
We have never experienced, in either car, any major difficulty in getting recharged whilst away from home. Yes, on the very rare occasion, we have had to wait for another to finish, but that has always been the exception, and with the huge increases in infrastructure that have already happened since we began this adventure, those instances are now very, very rare and, I suppose, will get rarer yet.
The car is well equipped with just about every bell and whistle available - smart cruise, auto headlights, electric everything, heated and ventilated seats and so on.
There have been three major issues with it, all fixed under warranty.
The first was a tendency for the 12v ancillary battery to discharge, requiring a "jump" before the car would turn on. That affected (or was affected by - I'm not sure which) the emergency auto-call system and was fixed with a firmware update.
We saw repeated warnings to top up the coolant system, despite it being full. After a few failed attempts, eventually the system was flushed out several times and the coolant replaced with a new formula. The water pump was also replaced. Apparently the old coolant had a tendency to crystallise and block the system.
And finally, the main high voltage battery pack was the subject of a safety recall. We were limited for a time to using only 90% of its capacity as a precaution. Eventually the car was shipped off to Tilbury and a brand new modified HV battery fitted, at around 30,000 miles.
We also noted the diamond cut alloys were suffering some cosmetic corrosion. And so we have a new set of those as well.
I am totally converted. I will never willingly revert to driving something with pistons and crankshafts.
We make a mixture of relatively short local trips and more occasional longer ones and we found it worked for all and any - with a little planning.
Two years later, Hyundai had released an updated version of the same car, with a greater range. Without any real intention to buy, I visited the dealer who offered a part exchange value around 80% of the initial purchase price coupled with a substantial discount on the brand new but pre-registered updated model. And so I changed to what is my current car - a 2019 year Hyundai Ioniq Electric.
It has a theoretical range of just under 200 miles. In practice that varies between around 175 and 230 depending on climate and driving style. And that is plenty for our use. The car is comfortable, quiet (as all EVs are), and very easy to drive. It has unremarkable performance, as this model was designed for efficiency over speed. And it is very efficient - probably one of the most efficient cars ever mass produced. It manages those +/-200 miles on just 38.3kWh stored power. It does on average well over 5 miles per kWh. A domestic recharge overnight at under 7p/unit (the price I will be paying for the next year fixed) works out at around 1.4p/mile fuel cost.
At 35000 miles, it is still on the original tyres, and none of the brake components have needed replacing. It will need new tyres soon.
We have never experienced, in either car, any major difficulty in getting recharged whilst away from home. Yes, on the very rare occasion, we have had to wait for another to finish, but that has always been the exception, and with the huge increases in infrastructure that have already happened since we began this adventure, those instances are now very, very rare and, I suppose, will get rarer yet.
The car is well equipped with just about every bell and whistle available - smart cruise, auto headlights, electric everything, heated and ventilated seats and so on.
There have been three major issues with it, all fixed under warranty.
The first was a tendency for the 12v ancillary battery to discharge, requiring a "jump" before the car would turn on. That affected (or was affected by - I'm not sure which) the emergency auto-call system and was fixed with a firmware update.
We saw repeated warnings to top up the coolant system, despite it being full. After a few failed attempts, eventually the system was flushed out several times and the coolant replaced with a new formula. The water pump was also replaced. Apparently the old coolant had a tendency to crystallise and block the system.
And finally, the main high voltage battery pack was the subject of a safety recall. We were limited for a time to using only 90% of its capacity as a precaution. Eventually the car was shipped off to Tilbury and a brand new modified HV battery fitted, at around 30,000 miles.
We also noted the diamond cut alloys were suffering some cosmetic corrosion. And so we have a new set of those as well.
I am totally converted. I will never willingly revert to driving something with pistons and crankshafts.
FormerBritInMe
Member
I didn't realize EVs had a coolant system. I was hoping that moving away from ICE you would get rid of pesky things like coolant systems and water pumps that start failing at inconvenient times (as though there was a convenient time for a water pump to go on the blink).
Here in the US we tend to drive longer distances and charger coverage can be spotty especially in rural areas, so I currently am still in the ICE camp, although I keep monitoring the situation. It does seem that modern ICE technology with its myriad of computers has become too complex for its own good, and EVs appear to be simpler conceptually.
DelW
Established Member
- Joined
- 15 Jan 2015
- Messages
- 3,959
A key factor in getting good life out of the main battery is controlling its temperature during charging (and to a lesser extent during discharging, i.e. when in use). The absence of such a system on early Nissan Leafs is one of the reasons they often had reports of their battery capacity being reduced earlier than was desirable.
Virtually all EVs now have liquid thermal management systems for the battery. However in comparison with ICE vehicles they tend to be a lot simpler with smaller radiators and pumps, as even at high charge and discharge rates battery heating comes nowhere near ICE operating temperatures.
Very good idea to have such a cooling system, in the early years of hybrids, vehicles operated in high-temperature areas such as California had issues with high battery degradation from exposure to high temperature, remind yourself of when a car parked under strong sunlight, the cabin temperature can rise to an extreme level, the batteries were suffering too in the heat. A liquid-coolant system may be programmed to operate and cool the battery when the car is parked to preserve the batteries from exposure to high temperature .
We obtained our first EV in early January, probably the worst weather to start with. It's an MG ZS EV and had 32,000 miles on it.
It's a whole new way of doing things, but works well. In the winter weather it's range was only 80 to 85% of the advertised as new range, which was OK, but not great. However I then discovered the importance of balancing charges - leaving the car on a slow charge once a month for hours after full - which rebalances individual battery cells. Now the weather has warmed up and after the balancing charges the range is up to 99% of new, much better.
We're driving it 1100 miles per month and mostly charge overnight at cheap rate on the three pin charger. Never had to use a public charger yet, and the average electricity cost per mile is 3.1p so far. We've still got another car, because sometimes we need to drive at similar times, but it does very few miles because we use the electric whenever possible. Mrs S had to drive the other car a few days ago (after the MG got a nail in it's tyre) and was quite grumpy about it!
I don't think we'll be going back to ICE - with fuel, discounted parking and less servicing required we're saving £2,000 a year for a start!
It's a whole new way of doing things, but works well. In the winter weather it's range was only 80 to 85% of the advertised as new range, which was OK, but not great. However I then discovered the importance of balancing charges - leaving the car on a slow charge once a month for hours after full - which rebalances individual battery cells. Now the weather has warmed up and after the balancing charges the range is up to 99% of new, much better.
We're driving it 1100 miles per month and mostly charge overnight at cheap rate on the three pin charger. Never had to use a public charger yet, and the average electricity cost per mile is 3.1p so far. We've still got another car, because sometimes we need to drive at similar times, but it does very few miles because we use the electric whenever possible. Mrs S had to drive the other car a few days ago (after the MG got a nail in it's tyre) and was quite grumpy about it!
I don't think we'll be going back to ICE - with fuel, discounted parking and less servicing required we're saving £2,000 a year for a start!