Tempted to 'do a Joe Duddington?'

[Railcar]

In the 1950s, when Mallard was running expresses on the East Coast main Line, are there any tales told of drivers who were tempted to 'do a Joe Duddington' and, on a southbound run, open up Mallard between Grantham and Peterborough?

 

[John Webb]

P W B Semmens wrote a biography "Bill Hoole Engineman Extraordinary" (Ian Allan, 1974, ISBN 0 7110 0556 7) in which he reports a number of occasions when Bill Hoole was recorded as exceeding 100mph when driving A4s. In May 1959 the Stephenson Locomotive Society arranged a special train to mark their Golden Jubilee and as a tribute to the A4s and other steam locos as the diesels began to take over. "Sir Nigel Gresley" was chosen along with Bill Hoole, who had close associations with this loco. Discussions took place regarding the maximum speed the train was to be run at, and 110mph down Stoke Bank was allowed. The measured speed was actually 112mph.
But mention is also made in the book of a run in November 1955 with the 'Tyne-Tees Pullman', also hauled by Sir Nigel Gresley and driven by Bill Hoole, in which a speed of 117mph was possibly recorded.

 

[hexagon789]

In the 1950s, when Mallard was running expresses on the East Coast main Line, are there any tales told of drivers who were tempted to 'do a Joe Duddington' and, on a southbound run, open up Mallard between Grantham and Peterborough?

There are several rumours, many mentioned in print, of 130+ being attained in the 1950s, but they remain rumours - there is no official documentation of any such speeds.

Nevertheless, there is apparently a log somewhere of 131 being achieved by Silver Link... never seen it myself.

 

[StephenHunter]

Who is Joe Duddington?

 

[Harvester]

P W B Semmens wrote a biography "Bill Hoole Engineman Extraordinary" (Ian Allan, 1974, ISBN 0 7110 0556 7) in which he reports a number of occasions when Bill Hoole was recorded as exceeding 100mph when driving A4s. In May 1959 the Stephenson Locomotive Society arranged a special train to mark their Golden Jubilee and as a tribute to the A4s and other steam locos as the diesels began to take over. "Sir Nigel Gresley" was chosen along with Bill Hoole, who had close associations with this loco. Discussions took place regarding the maximum speed the train was to be run at, and 110mph down Stoke Bank was allowed. The measured speed was actually 112mph.
But mention is also made in the book of a run in November 1955 with the 'Tyne-Tees Pullman', also hauled by Sir Nigel Gresley and driven by Bill Hoole, in which a speed of 117mph was possibly recorded.

The 117mph maximum figure came from a Hallade Recorder. Bill Hoole was covering for another driver that day on A4 60007, and was probably unaware that a Civil Engineering team was on the train doing routine recordings. Bill got away with a telling off, and was warned not to do it again!!

 

[hexagon789]

Who is Joe Duddington?

The driver of LNER A4 Pacific Mallard, when she set the world speed record for steam traction of 126mph (actually 125.88 on the readout) in July 1938.

 

[StephenHunter]

The driver of LNER A4 Pacific Mallard, when she set the world speed record for steam traction of 126mph (actually 125.88 on the readout) in July 1938.

Thanks.

 

[Harvester]

There are several rumours, many mentioned in print, of 130+ being attained in the 1950s, but they remain rumours - there is no official documentation of any such speeds.

Nevertheless, there is apparently a log somewhere of 131 being achieved by Silver Link... never seen it myself.

There were exaggerated claims that 46245 City of London bettered 60007’s 112mph down Stoke Bank, when the Duchess was used on a Doncaster-Kings Cross special on Sunday 9/6/63. Never seen a log of this run either.

 

[hexagon789]

There were exaggerated claims that 46245 City of London bettered 60007’s 112mph down Stoke Bank, when the Duchess was used on a Doncaster-Kings Cross special on Sunday 9/6/63. Never seen a log of this run either.

Such claims were once widespread.

Nevertheless, Duddington himself stated that he thought 130 was easily achievable - if the run hadn't been checked nearing Grantham, speed topping Stoke could well have been into the 90s and Duddington thought that in such circumstances they could have possibly touched 140 coming down the other side...

 

[bspahh]

There was a documentary on the Mallard record attempt broadcast earlier this year

Mallard Documentary on BBC Radio 4 extra

Anything You Can Do is a radio documentary from 1988 on the Mallard steam engine record. It was repeated last Tuesday and Wednesday and is available for another 24 days at https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b8b7qb

www.railforums.co.uk

Some quotes were:

The job of breaking the record was entrusted to one of Gresley's fastest drivers, driver Joe Duddington.
"Duddington was a pretty stolid sort of man, but probably not at all nervous. He was noted as a fast driver."

"I think he was a fairly typical dour Yorkshireman - didn't have a right lot to say. He was certainly known as a fearless engineman. He wasn't frightened to run hard and run fast.

Harry Wilson:
"In general opinion, driver Joe Duddington was not a skilled driver, but he was a driver without nerve and thats what Gresley wanted. Gresley told them at Doncaster 'I want a driver with strong nerves, steel ??? nerves' because he knew, he envisaged this locomotive going fast but it did go fast and they wanted a man capable of doing it without say at 110 packing it in.

 

[Harvester]

Nevertheless, Duddington himself stated that he thought 130 was easily achievable - if the run hadn't been checked nearing Grantham, speed topping Stoke could well have been into the 90s and Duddington thought that in such circumstances they could have possibly touched 140 coming down the other side...

Bill Hoole was unchecked through Grantham on 23/5/59, and handled 60007 perfectly to top Stoke Bank at 75mph and retained good boiler pressure in doing so. He then opened up and kept accelerating down the bank until told to ease off at 112mph by Alan Pegler. He could have gone faster, but with two officials in the cab, to ensure the prearranged 110mph maximum was observed, he had to comply.

 

[Railcar]

Thanks for all your replies. As someone who saw Mallard, and other A4s, emerging from the Wood Green tunnels with a rush and a roar whilst 'looking over the fence' in Dagmar Road N22 (where the Hertford Loop crosses over the ECML ) the story of the record run has always intrigued me.

 

[E27007]

The reports of a certain steam locomotive out on test with a derogation for 75 mph +12.5% will be kept closed under 30-year disclosure rules