Term ticket validility

[sansyy]

Hello so my girlfriend is a daily Merseyrail commuter to get to college and today she repurchased her Term Ticket but it costed her 20 pound more than usual. This was strange as no where on the Merseyrail website does it specify this increase in price other than a blatant difference on the ticket itself. So for some context, the ticket is only valid on weekdays and is no longer valid past 8pm due to the restrictions set on the term ticket itself.

But when I looked at the ticket, it says different to what it usually says. So it usually says MRAIL 16-18 TT but the new ticket says valid via any permitted route. Does this mean both day and time restrictions are lifted. Was the extra price due to this restriction being lifted. Please help as the restriction being lifted will save money when coming home after 8pm and also if it doesn't have any restrictions then what gives for the higher price? There is no other routes at Rock Ferry to take so is it just more for nothing?.

Pictures below will show both tickets

Please ignore the 0.00 price tag, it was a replacement ticket. The original costed 174.45. Identifiable information has been blurred for her protection of course. The validity being slightly longer might make you think that's why its more expensive but its been the same price for the last 2 years regardless of length other than it just been a full term. Thanks

 

[Horizon22]

It's valid for more days which might make a difference? Also, the national fares increase during that time.

 

[sansyy]

It's valid for more days which might make a difference? Also, the national fares increase during that time.

The valid for more days doesn't make a difference with this ticket. And also aren't merseyrail suspended from increasing their fares? None of their other in house rangers and rovers like the day saver have gone up. Also is there any note with the any permitted route or not?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

How exactly is the product priced? Is it a multiple of some base, weekly amount?

 

[sansyy]

How exactly is the product priced? Is it a multiple of some base, weekly amount?

Here is a screenshot from the Merseyrail website showing how they offer it.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

View attachment 156446

Here is a screenshot from the Merseyrail website showing how they offer it.

So, how is the £195.40 fare paid shown on the recent ticket in post #1 calculated, or am I missing something?

 

[sansyy]

So, how is the £195.40 fare paid shown on the recent ticket in post #1 calculated, or am I missing something?

thats my question here too, it shows a different ticket thing not showing MRAIL 16-18 TT and costed 20 pound more showing via all routes permitted making me wonder if time restrictions and day restrictions are no longer counting because it is not a MRAIL 16-18 TT by the ticket?? I am not sure at all really its very confusing

 

[alistairlees]

There are two "routes" from Rock Ferry to MerseyRail All Zones in the fares data:
- Any Permitted (the dot ".")
- Merseyrail only

The former is more expensive than the latter.

It appears that your girlfried has (presumably mistakenly?) been sold the more expensive one. She should get this refunded and replaced with the cheaper one.

See: https://www.brfares.com/!expert?orig=RFY&dest=I259&period=20240401

 

[cool110]

Nothing to do with the time and date restrictions. The old ticket was Merseyrail only, while the new one is any operator and therefore also includes parts of the city and borderlands lines.

 

[sansyy]

There are two "routes" from Rock Ferry to MerseyRail All Zones in the fares data:
- Any Permitted (the dot ".")
- Merseyrail only

The former is more expensive than the latter.

It appears that your girlfried has (presumably mistakenly?) been sold the more expensive one. She should get this refunded and replaced with the cheaper one.

See: https://www.brfares.com/!expert?orig=RFY&dest=I259&period=20240401

Nothing to do with the time and date restrictions. The old ticket was Merseyrail only, while the new one is any operator and therefore also includes parts of the city and borderlands lines.

does the destination being MRAIL ALL AREAS mean it won't be allowed on the line to Heswall and on the city lines.

 

[cool110]

does the destination being MRAIL ALL AREAS mean it won't be allowed on the line to Heswall and on the city lines.

No the MRAIL destinations are to distinguish from the Trio that's also for the buses and ferry, they exist for Area A which doesn't have any Merseyrail services. It's the ticket type and MRAIL in the route that distinguishes Merseyrail only from the PTE ones.

 

[sansyy]

No the MRAIL destinations are to distinguish from the Trio that's also for the buses and ferry, they exist for Area A which doesn't have any Merseyrail services. It's the ticket type and MRAIL in the route that distinguishes Merseyrail only from the PTE ones.

So which stations can be visited on the city line? There is a MerseyTravel map with Railpass locations but they only specify on the MetroCard and do not say anything about a paper ticket anymore. Just want to make sure if she is every challenged by a RPI she can argue it without getting fined.

 

[Belperpete]

thats my question here too, it shows a different ticket thing not showing MRAIL 16-18 TT and costed 20 pound more showing via all routes permitted making me wonder if time restrictions and day restrictions are no longer counting because it is not a MRAIL 16-18 TT by the ticket?? I am not sure at all really its very confusing

I think that you have hit the nail on the head there. There is nothing on the new ticket to say that it is a 16-18 TT, it just appears to be a standard adult season ticket of some sort. How it was calculated is irrelevant, she has been sold a different ticket to before. If she wants to change it, I suggest that she does so ASAP, otherwise they could claim that she has had the benefit of the less restrictive ticket.

As that webpage states, the £174.45 ticket is only valid on Northern and Wirral lines. If she wants a TT ticket that is also valid via the City Lines, she should ask for the £181.90 ticket.

Of course, it may be worth her considering keeping the ticket to be allowed unlimited travel in the evenings and at weekends! As the new ticket says nothing about being a TT ticket, I can't see how anyone is going to hold her to those restrictions. And of course the new ticket doesn't limit her to just the Northern and Wirral lines. At just £20 extra, it sounds a bit of a bargain to me!

The only difficulty I forsee is when she tries to renew it next term, if the clerk can't work out how the £195 was derived!

 

[sansyy]

I think that you have hit the nail on the head there. There is nothing on the new ticket to say that it is a 16-18 TT, it just appears to be a standard adult season ticket of some sort. How it was calculated is irrelevant, she has been sold a different ticket to before. If she wants to change it, I suggest that she does so ASAP, otherwise they could claim that she has had the benefit of the less restrictive ticket.

As that webpage states, the £174.45 ticket is only valid on Northern and Wirral lines. If she wants a TT ticket that is also valid via the City Lines, she should ask for the £181.90 ticket.

Of course, it may be worth her considering keeping the ticket to be allowed unlimited travel in the evenings and at weekends! As the new ticket says nothing about being a TT ticket, I can't see how anyone is going to hold her to those restrictions. And of course the new ticket doesn't limit her to just the Northern and Wirral lines. At just £20 extra, it sounds a bit of a bargain to me!

The only difficulty I forsee is when she tries to renew it next term, if the clerk can't work out how the £195 was derived!

She’s definitely planning on keeping the less restrictive ticket but she has been fined in the past for using the TT ticket past 8pm and if she gets pulled up on it again what argument could she use? Seeing it’s got no restrictions stated on the ticket I see no reason to why it can’t be used but how could you convince a Merseyrail RPI of this same thing? They aren’t the brightest when it comes to ticket restrictions and arguing validity by the ticket offices mistake could easily fail the attitude test and get her into a difficult situation.

 

[island]

She’s definitely planning on keeping the less restrictive ticket but she has been fined in the past for using the TT ticket past 8pm and if she gets pulled up on it again what argument could she use? Seeing it’s got no restrictions stated on the ticket I see no reason to why it can’t be used but how could you convince a Merseyrail RPI of this same thing? They aren’t the brightest when it comes to ticket restrictions and arguing validity by the ticket offices mistake could easily fail the attitude test and get her into a difficult situation.

If the ticket doesn't say term time it can't be held to any restriction.

 

[SargeNpton]

"Valid on Merseyrail services, on 16 - 18 Term Time Railpass only"

I'm assuming that the Railpass is a separate document that needs to be held to purchase first ticket above. What then does the wording of that pass say about valid days/times?

 

[cool110]

I'm assuming that the Railpass is a separate document that needs to be held to purchase first ticket above. What then does the wording of that pass say about valid days/times?

It isn't, Railpass is just the name for season tickets within the Merseytravel zone system.

 

[SargeNpton]

It isn't, Railpass is just the name for season tickets within the Merseytravel zone system.

Thanks for the clarification.

The MerseyTravel website does clarify the validity though...

When can I use it?​

Weekly, Monthly or Annual Tickets - Anytime any day. Activates on the day you buy it.

Term Time Tickets - Monday to Friday before 8pm during term times only.

 

[island]

The period factor for 3 months and 11 days is 12.93 which gives £15.11 per week. No normal National Rail ticket can be created for the price of £195.40 because a base fare can only be a multiple of 5p and £15.10 times 12.93 gives you £195.24 which would round to £195.20.

An all zone young person train only term ticket would be £181.90.

I cannot find any way to come up with the fare of £195.40 or figure out what that ticket is.

 

[swt_passenger]

The period factor for 3 months and 11 days is 12.93 which gives £15.11 per week. No normal National Rail ticket can be created for the price of £195.40 because a base fare can only be a multiple of 5p and £15.10 times 12.93 gives you £195.24 which would round to £195.20.

An all zone young person train only term ticket would be £181.90.

I cannot find any way to come up with the fare of £195.40 or figure out what that ticket is.

Are they still using void days for disruption? Probably irrelevant but a small possibility?

 

[redreni]

When I used to take the train to school many years ago there was no special term time ticket so you just bought a season ticket at the monthly rate, valid until the last day of the term or half term (depending if you wanted it to be valid during half term) and it was charged pro rata at the monthly rate.

Presumably it wouldn't make sense to do that when a cheaper, fixed-price ticket is available for the term but maybe that's what you've been given? It looks like an ordinary season ticket. If so that's an error one would expect the ticket office that mis-sold it to be willing and able to resolve.

 

[sansyy]

The guy at the ticket office was told a Term Ticket but issued this one and not sure how the price came to be. Since it doesn't say anything about it being a term ticket we will presume we will be hold to the normal monthly, annual and weekly restrictions of anytime and any day since activation (being 4 days ago). For a difference of 20 pounds it is a great deal and will definitely be keeping this ticket for the rest of the term since she won't need a term ticket after this term anyway being the final term. If anyone does know what this ticket is and how the price was formed it would be great for future reference and clarity. Thanks

 

[redreni]

Perhaps I should have been clearer: the season ticket I used to have as a schoolboy wasn't a special arrangement or concession for schoolkids. It's just a standard feature of season tickets on the national rail network that you can get them for a bespoke period of more than 1 month and pay for the number of days' validity you've bought at the monthly rate. You can do that on any season ticket (there are no exceptions as far as I'm aware although I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong).

Looking at the period of validity on the ticket you've been sold it's about three and a third months and the price is about three and a third times the published monthly rate for an all-zones young person season ticket. So I'd say that's what it is.

If you want to buy it again you just ask for a season ticket valid until whatever date you want it to be valid to. As long as it's more than a month away, you can simply name your date.

 

[sansyy]

Perhaps I should have been clearer: the season ticket I used to have as a schoolboy wasn't a special arrangement or concession for schoolkids. It's just a standard feature of season tickets on the national rail network that you can get them for a bespoke period of more than 1 month and pay for the number of days' validity you've bought at the monthly rate. You can do that on any season ticket (there are no exceptions as far as I'm aware although I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong).

Looking at the period of validity on the ticket you've been sold it's about three and a third months and the price is about three and a third times the published monthly rate for an all-zones young person season ticket. So I'd say that's what it is.

If you want to buy it again you just ask for a season ticket valid until whatever date you want it to be valid to. As long as it's more than a month away, you can simply name your date.

Thank you for this information, this season ticket is desired way more and for the slight price increase for no restrictions it’s a great deal. Wish we knew this sooner!

 

[dave4jackie]

You need to take it back and explain that the price is wrong and that the 16-18 is not showing, unfortunately some staff are unsure how to issue them but it’s easily sorted

 

[Deerfold]

You need to take it back and explain that the price is wrong and that the 16-18 is not showing, unfortunately some staff are unsure how to issue them but it’s easily sorted

Do they? What would the benefit be?

 

[redreni]

Do they? What would the benefit be?

Indeed, it's an inconsequential error, isn't it?

If a correctly-priced adult season ticket were issued to an adult and it said Young Person on it then I would suggest getting that corrected as a matter of urgency, but it is not against the rules for a teenager to travel on an adult ticket.

 

[sansyy]

Indeed, it's an inconsequential error, isn't it?

If a correctly-priced adult season ticket were issued to an adult and it said Young Person on it then I would suggest getting that corrected as a matter of urgency, but it is not against the rules for a teenager to travel on an adult ticket.

Just to confirm. Merseyrail issue 16-18 tickets but their validity states Adult Standard Class presumably as its not a child ticket but an in-house discount. So even the normal 16-18 TT still says Adult Standard Class.

 

[Belperpete]

Just to confirm. Merseyrail issue 16-18 tickets but their validity states Adult Standard Class presumably as its not a child ticket but an in-house discount. So even the normal 16-18 TT still says Adult Standard Class.

Yes, the 16-18 TT ticket says Adult Standard Class on it, as it is a specially-discounted version of the Adult Standard Class ticket, the discount coming with additional restrictions (not valid evenings, etc.) shown on the ticket by the "MRAIL 16-18 TT" text. The new ticket does not show the "MRAIL 16-18 TT" restriction text, so the "MRAIL 16-18 TT" restrictions cannot apply. Even better, it has the text "Valid via any permitted route" which means that you are explicitly not restricted to just using the Northern & Wirral lines.

In my case, I can often buy cheaper tickets if I accept that I have to travel via Birmingham. Such tickets will say "ONLY VALID VIA BIRMINGHAM" on them. If I have a ticket that does not say "ONLY VALID VIA BIRMINGHAM" on it, then inherently I am not subject to that restriction and I am entitled to travel via any permitted route.