TfGM Bus franchising

[RogerOut]

I’m confused, I thought Manchester was having bus services run publicly? But it seems there’s a tender process where the companies bid to run the bus services?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I’m confused, I thought Manchester was having bus services run publicly? But it seems there’s a tender process where the companies bid to run the bus services?

The companies are running the services, distributed via this franchising system, but TfGM will control what those services are (but they're starting with what they're given).

 

[Deerfold]

I’m confused, I thought Manchester was having bus services run publicly? But it seems there’s a tender process where the companies bid to run the bus services?

They're moving to a system very like TfL's franchise system.

 

[Goldfish62]

I’m confused, I thought Manchester was having bus services run publicly? But it seems there’s a tender process where the companies bid to run the bus services?

Publicly controlled. For publicly operated see the likes of Reading, Lothian, Nottingham.

 

[WatcherZero]

TfGM sets the routes and fares and takes 100% of the farebox revenue as well as owning the major bus depots and a sizeable chunk of the bus fleet leasing them to the franchises, companies compete on price to operate the assets in a larger but not dissimilar way to subsidised service contracts, at the end of the franchise period operator assets can be passed on to their successor in a residual value mechanism similar to TOC assets.

 

[M60lad]

Will drivers/staff uniforms be changing once franchising takes over? Or will staff still wear their current employees uniform? If uniforms are changing what is the new uniform going to be?

 

[johncrossley]

I find it interesting that Burnham's persistence with mode-based tickets is being talked of as integrated. Like London, this is not an integrated fare structure.

As far as I can tell, TfGM aren't even allowing free interchange between buses, unless I missed that announcement?

 

[andrewbowden]

As far as I can tell, TfGM aren't even allowing free interchange between buses, unless I missed that announcement?

It was announced in 2019 but is currently on hold.

Greater Manchester Bus Fares are to be Capped at £2 a Journey From September

Andy Burnham has announced that the reform will be fast tracked as a direct response to the cost of living crisis.

www.manchestersfinest.com

Presumably it will also be a lot easier once franchising covers every area

 

[stait.john]

Whilst I wish the franchising system all the best luck in the world, it will never be anything like London in terms of the way it’s operated.

And the road into Manchester from the West is still a nightmare even with the bus lanes. Far too many roadworks too which will never go away of course, and the trams will always take traffic light preference in the City Centre.

39253 should be the next Vantage repaint, it’s done just awaiting lettering, 39247/39251 away for paint now.

 

[Leyland Bus]

Whilst I wish the franchising system all the best luck in the world, it will never be anything like London in terms of the way it’s operated.

And the road into Manchester from the West is still a nightmare even with the bus lanes. Far too many roadworks too which will never go away of course, and the trams will always take traffic light preference in the City Centre.

39253 should be the next Vantage repaint, it’s done just awaiting lettering, 39247/39251 away for paint now.

Are they being lettered at Oldham (OM)?

 

[Alexbus12]

Surprised Vantage isn’t staying as it is. Surely that brand has its own commercial value to TFGM. Also what a dreadful livery replacement they’re receiving…

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Whilst I wish the franchising system all the best luck in the world, it will never be anything like London in terms of the way it’s operated.

And the road into Manchester from the West is still a nightmare even with the bus lanes. Far too many roadworks too which will never go away of course, and the trams will always take traffic light preference in the City Centre.

Yup, for all the talk of London style this and that, it won't be.

The bus priority (extent and management) is something that I've mentioned on several occasions. Traffic congestion doesn't discriminate between a franchised vs. commercially operated bus. I was near the Apollo the other week (not far from Hyde Road depot). Two lanes of traffic each way but no bus priority; the temp traffic lights making a poor situation worse. That I could drive to Piccadilly station makes sense but that you can drive through much of the city centre is perverse.

 

[WatcherZero]

Surprised Vantage isn’t staying as it is. Surely that brand has its own commercial value to TFGM. Also what a dreadful livery replacement they’re receiving…

Vantage brand is owned by First though they are contractually required to sell it on to their successor if asked.

 

[Deerfold]

Yup, for all the talk of London style this and that, it won't be.

The bus priority (extent and management) is something that I've mentioned on several occasions. Traffic congestion doesn't discriminate between a franchised vs. commercially operated bus. I was near the Apollo the other week (not far from Hyde Road depot). Two lanes of traffic each way but no bus priority; the temp traffic lights making a poor situation worse. That I could drive to Piccadilly station makes sense but that you can drive through much of the city centre is perverse.

Sounds very like London. London has very little decent bus priority (I used to travel to work by bus along a bus lane, but it had spaces in the lane for loading vehicles which didn't exclude peak times so buses almost always had to pull out into other traffic).

 

[johncrossley]

Sounds very like London. London has very little decent bus priority (I used to travel to work by bus along a bus lane, but it had spaces in the lane for loading vehicles which didn't exclude peak times so buses almost always had to pull out into other traffic).

Bus priority is, of course, desirable, but there's still benefit in improving bus services even if there are traffic problems. Manchester has far less serious traffic problems than London, yet London has outperformed Manchester dramatically over the last 40 years. Even in London it isn't as if you end up in a traffic jam every time you catch the bus. The issue of traffic is important, but is not the be all and end all. Bus operators in cities around the world have to put up with traffic congestion even if they have some bus lanes. Some operators and commentators seem to want to throw their arms in the air in resignation, blaming the traffic for poor bus usage when the operator could be doing more to make their service more attractive.

 

[BurtonM]

https://twitter.com/officialtfgm/status/1674011056862011393

PIDs (passenger information displays) finally on trial for GM bus stops - so we can imagine a rollout in what, 2025? . Why this even needs trialling baffles me as much as the fact they even considered a flip dot display over LEDs or e-paper.

 

[andrewbowden]

https://twitter.com/officialtfgm/status/1674011056862011393

PIDs finally on trial for GM bus stops - so we can imagine a rollout in what, 2025? . Why this even needs trialling baffles me as much as the fact they even considered a flip dot display over LEDs or e-paper.

They seem to be trialling different types as Stockport has a different design.

https://twitter.com/OfficialTfGM/status/1658880610771795991

 

[Bletchleyite]

They seem to be trialling different types as Stockport has a different design.

https://twitter.com/OfficialTfGM/status/1658880610771795991

Bizarre they're trialling flipdot! Wonder did they find it in a cupboard from last time they were trying such things in the 90s?

This one seems best and easiest to read, as used by most Councils now:

TfGM: photo of a wide, shallow 2 line OLED/TFT type bus real time display

 

[J-2739]

https://twitter.com/officialtfgm/status/1674011056862011393

PIDs (passenger information displays) finally on trial for GM bus stops - so we can imagine a rollout in what, 2025? . Why this even needs trialling baffles me as much as the fact they even considered a flip dot display over LEDs or e-paper.

I can't lie, that display looks very classy and well done, free of the clutter that some PIDs have pursued with recently. I certainly wouldn't mind if that was the chosen display.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can't lie, that display looks very classy and well done, free of the clutter that some PIDs have pursued with recently. I certainly wouldn't mind if that was the chosen display.

Flipdot displays fail really quickly and end up displaying junk. It's a dead technology. If you want a basic display like that, orange LED is the tech.

 

[J-2739]

Flipdot displays fail really quickly and end up displaying junk. It's a dead technology. If you want a basic display like that, orange LED is the tech.

Cheap looking nastiness. If we can combine the reliability of LEDs with the beauty and clarity of a flip dot, then we are on a winner.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Cheap looking nastiness. If we can combine the reliability of LEDs with the beauty and clarity of a flip dot, then we are on a winner.

If you find LEDs less clear than flipdots and don't have a visual disability I would suggest a trip to Specsavers. I think the OLED/TFT one is best.

 

[J-2739]

If you find LEDs less clear than flipdots and don't have a visual disability I would suggest a trip to Specsavers. I think the OLED/TFT one is best.

Been there, done that many times for the last ten years!

 

[JetBlast]

If you want a basic display like that, orange LED is the tech.

Even these are old. They are being slowly removed from the train stations.

 

[GusB]

Could we please return to discussing the situation regarding franchising in Manchester? Anyone who wishes to talk about flip-dot versus LED is welcome to do so in a separate thread.

 

[Dallamlad]

I’ve noticed that in the ADL release about Diamond’s new E200s they say a further 157 new ADL buses are going to be used on the Bee Network. 100 are the electrics Transport for Greater Manchester have ordered but what are the other 57? Are they counting Stagecoache’s deliveries this year?

Release here https://www.alexander-dennis.com/me...-for-greater-manchester-franchised-contracts/

 

[WWH44L]

I’ve noticed that in the ADL release about Diamond’s new E200s they say a further 157 new ADL buses are going to be used on the Bee Network. 100 are the electrics Transport for Greater Manchester have ordered but what are the other 57? Are they counting Stagecoache’s deliveries this year?

Aren’t the stagecoach ones Volvos on MCV bodies? 171 I think too. Interesting though.

 

[Goldfish62]

Aren’t the stagecoach ones Volvos on MCV bodies?

Yes.

 

[Dallamlad]

Aren’t the stagecoach ones Volvos on MCV bodies? 171 I think too. Interesting though.

Yes indeed I meant just the diesel deliveries arriving this year to depots in the last franchise area. It’s probably just me missing something!

 

[Leyland Bus]

Hi,

Just a quick update on proceedings at Bolton (BN).
40809 has been completed and will re-enter traffic following some minor mechanical work.
40799 replaces it in the paintshop.

B7 30928 has returned to service following repaint, complete with "Bee Network" insignia, so keep an eye out for her!