TFGM press release: Mayor Andy Burnham reveals plans for Bee Network rail to boost passenger numbers and drive Greater Manchester’s growth

[alanbur]

Mayor Andy Burnham reveals plans for Bee Network rail to boost passenger numbers and drive Greater Manchester’s growth​

• Greater Manchester Mayor reveals three-phase plan, working with the rail industry, to bring rail services and stations into the Bee Network by 2028, building on the successful approach to buses.
• Plans include flagship travel hub stations, tap in tap out tickets, integrated fares, accessible stations and trial of Bee Network branded trains.
• First phase, on services from Manchester to Glossop and Stalybridge, scheduled to be completed by December 2026.

Greater Manchester’s proposition is for eight commuter rail lines, covering 64 stations, to be brought into the Bee Network in three phases, delivering major improvements to the city-region’s train stations, services and passenger experience – including integrated capped fares across bus, tram and train.

Under the plan, the first two lines - connecting Manchester to Glossop and Stalybridge - will join by December 2026. A further 32 stations and all lines within Greater Manchester would join by 2030.

My question is who will actually be delivering the service? If it's still Northern Fail, it will still be crap.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I was just about to report the same, in my existing thread:

Bee Network rebranding for National Rail services

It’s my understanding that Stalybridge – Southport Glossop/Hadfield – Manchester Piccadilly Rose Hill Marple – Manchester Piccadilly Buxton – Manchester Piccadilly Alderley Edge – Manchester Piccadilly Rochdale stopping services Manchester Airport stopping services may become part of the Bee...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[alanbur]

Hmm, from reading that is does appear it will still be Northern providing the infrastructure. The integrated ticketing etc will be an improvement, but some of the people on the local Facebook groups are doing backflips because they think it means NoMoreNorthern, I think they are going to be very disappointed.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I expect they'll portion off a designated pool of Sprinters and CAFs specifically for Bee Network operations and "yellowing"

 

[HSTEd]

I expect they'll portion off a designated pool of Sprinters and CAFs specifically for Bee Network operations and "yellowing"

So, its a return to the pre privatisation PTE liveries?

Rather a non-event.

 

[alanbur]

Rather a non-event.

The important parts are the integrated ticketing and fare caps, not the livery. But none of that's much use if Northern are still in charge, the Piccadilly - Glossop line is just about one of the worst for cancellations, even by Northern's atrocious standards. On 28 Dec for example, 40% of the services were cancelled. Yes, you read that right, 40%.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

There will be a 'Bee-ification' of the stations listed in the press release as well. What is not clear is what the arrangements will be at stations outside Gtr. Manchester (e.g. Handforth, Wilmslow, Alderley Edge) which are served by the lines to be taken over. Glossop and Hadfield are outside G.M. as well, but they are listed.

 

[gray1404]

So, its a return to the pre privatisation PTE liveries?

Rather a non-event.

And we'll see a Bee branded one on the Eastern side of the Northern network I'm sure

 

[Rail Quest]

The linked article says this of phase 1 (opening December 2026):

Passengers will also see a trial of Bee Network branded trains

Presumably that means 323s will be the first to wear the Bee Network colours (or just branding if its not going to be anything fancy) if this phase is specifically Glossop/Hadfield/Staly

 

[Sam 76]

The linked article says this of phase 1 (opening December 2026):

Presumably that means 323s will be the first to wear the Bee Network colours (or just branding if its not going to be anything fancy) if this phase is specifically Glossop/Hadfield/Staly

I’d imagine the 323s in WM livery would be the first to get the new livery

 

[Bevan Price]

There will be a 'Bee-ification' of the stations listed in the press release as well. What is not clear is what the arrangements will be at stations outside Gtr. Manchester (e.g. Handforth, Wilmslow, Alderley Edge) which are served by the lines to be taken over. Glossop and Hadfield are outside G.M. as well, but they are listed.

Not just the stations - how will cross-boundary services be affected? If they want more frequent services within GM, will that consume paths currently needed for existing cross boundary services.

 

[Geeves]

I just don't believe its possible to ring fence the units unless they build them a new depot, their own traincrew etc, in the current set up there is a 100 percent chance of a Bee Network 195 doing work between Leeds and Nottingham

 

[Blackpool boy]

Not just the stations - how will cross-boundary services be affected? If they want more frequent services within GM, will that consume paths currently needed for existing cross boundary services.

How have other PTEs over the years done this?

 

[Rail Ranger]

Glossop and Hadfield rail stations are in the TfGM area (as are Appley Bridge and Glazebrook) despite not being in GM.

 

[FrodshamJnct]

Is the Mid-Cheshire line completely out of scope?

 

[CdBrux]

Mayor Andy Burnham reveals plans for Bee Network rail to boost passenger numbers and drive Greater Manchester’s growth​

My question is who will actually be delivering the service? If it's still Northern Fail, it will still be crap.

It will be, indeed already is, the government, and as we all know nationalisation is the way to perfection! If there is a problem please contact Heidi from London

 

[Rail Ranger]

Is the Mid-Cheshire line completely out of scope?

Presumably to be added to the Bee Network as far as Hale by 2030.

 

[Djgr]

Presumably to be added to the Bee Network as far as Hale by 2030.

Yes. The original post shows Hale but Mid-Cheshire as a line is probably out of scope because it's in Cheshire not Greater Manchester!

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Hmm, call me cynical but I can't see this being anything other than a rebranding with new train liveries, new station signs and new staff uniforms but the same old unreliable Northern Rail services.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Hmm, call me cynical but I can't see this being anything other than a rebranding with new train liveries, new station signs and new staff uniforms but the same old unreliable Northern Rail services.

I can see Burnham going further and looking to take over operation himself in the manner of Merseyrail. Just need to go a step at a time.

(Obviously TfGM already does that by conversion to Metrolink)

 

[plugwash]

My big question is will the new ticketing be valid on all trains within the area as it is in London (and as the county card is today). Or will it be limited to "bee network" trains?

If the former, I can see it causing a lot of confusion, and worsening overcrowding issues.

 

[Djgr]

Hmm, call me cynical but I can't see this being anything other than a rebranding with new train liveries, new station signs and new staff uniforms but the same old unreliable Northern Rail services.

Is Greater Manchester's approach not essentially the same approach as that of the development of London Overground, which has been pretty transformational in results?

 

[Blackpool boy]

My big question is will the new ticketing be valid on all trains within the area as it is in London (and as the county card is today). Or will it be limited to "bee network" trains?

If the former, I can see it causing a lot of confusion, and worsening overcrowding issues.

it mentions ticketing in the story

 

[norbitonflyer]

My big question is will the new ticketing be valid on all trains within the area as it is in London (and as the county card is today). Or will it be limited to "bee network" trains?

If the former, I can see it causing a lot of confusion, and worsening overcrowding issues.

I would guess all trains, as it is the stations which will be "Bee-ified" and tghere will, in gereal, be no way of knowing what train was used to get between two such statoins

 

[Class83]

I can see Burnham going further and looking to take over operation himself in the manner of Merseyrail. Just need to go a step at a time.

(Obviously TfGM already does that by conversion to Metrolink)

This sounds more like Merseyrail's Northern operated 'City Line' than the self contained Merseyrail Electrics. Indeed some services will operationally have to serve both the Merseyrail City Line and the Bee Network on their way between Liverpool and Manchester.

 

[JamesT]

Is Greater Manchester's approach not essentially the same approach as that of the development of London Overground, which has been pretty transformational in results?

Didn't London Overground essentially take over whole lines of services which are largely self-contained and pump a load of money into extra staff and replacing the trains?
Are either of those things possible for Manchester? Bee Network services are going to have to interoperate with other operator's services and the press release doesn't appear to mention lots of money for the other things.

 

[childwallblues]

It will be interesting to see how they divide Northerns current fleets

 

[urbophile]

This sounds more like Merseyrail's Northern operated 'City Line' than the self contained Merseyrail Electrics.

Which is a cruel deception of the public. Northern-operated stations within the Liverpool City Region are already branded Merseyrail (and have been for many years); compared to the real Merseyrail (with all its faults) the service is rubbish. Suburbs like Rainhill have one train an hour which could be arbitrarily cancelled. Broad Green station has been boarded up and lacking facilities for well over a year (maybe two?) and is not expected to be rebuilt before the end of 2026, meanwhile enduring a minimal train service. One line, Lime Street to Warrington, is still served by diesel trains. Messrs Burnham and Rotheram need to get their act together and ensure local control of trains serving both cities.

 

[Blackpool boy]

Which is a cruel deception of the public. Northern-operated stations within the Liverpool City Region are already branded Merseyrail (and have been for many years); compared to the real Merseyrail (with all its faults) the service is rubbish. Suburbs like Rainhill have one train an hour which could be arbitrarily cancelled. Broad Green station has been boarded up and lacking facilities for well over a year (maybe two?) and is not expected to be rebuilt before the end of 2026, meanwhile enduring a minimal train service. One line, Lime Street to Warrington, is still served by diesel trains. Messrs Burnham and Rotheram need to get their act together and ensure local control of trains serving both cities.

Isnt that what they are trying to do, well staying on topic about Burnham, this is actually what he is trying to do so whats the problem with the proposals the?

 

[noddingdonkey]

I just don't believe its possible to ring fence the units unless they build them a new depot, their own traincrew etc, in the current set up there is a 100 percent chance of a Bee Network 195 doing work between Leeds and Nottingham

much like how Metro branded units ventured far beyond West Yorkshire back in the day. I do find the insular nature of how these Mayors tend to operate is really not helping people who live near the edge of their arbitrarily defined patch. To have subsidised transport to a town 30 miles (and 2 changes of train) away in one direction yet have to pay through the nose to get to a neighbouring town a handful of miles away because it happens to be across a political border seems not to be doing anybody any favours.