TFL siblings zip card caught

[atoq123]

Today morning on the way to work I got caught using my brothers 11-15 zip card for train. I handed them my details so I’m not sure what I will get in the letter but based on what I’ve read from forums it’s usually a court case?
I believe I have a reason to back my case although it is not an excuse for this behaviour. I’m 19 and I had a 16-18 zip card for a while which is also a discounted card and I only started using train when I started my job in October so I didn’t know if it expired already. My card is also worn out like my brothers (can’t see face or name)so I wasn’t able to tell which card I picked up but I believed it was mine at that time since we both have the same oyster wallet. I also didn’t know it was expired until now since the card I thought was mine was obviously my brothers which worked so I continued using it without checking. My brother never uses his zip card that’s why he couldn’t tell that I’ve been using his the whole time.

It may seem like a fee evasion for months but I truly didn’t know. I work for civil service so I always stay cautious and stand with the law as it would affect my current clearance. Please can I get some advice. I don’t know what to expect and whether to plead guilty or not if I get that option.

 

[johnny_t]

As a first bit of advice, I wouldn't try telling them that you both have identical wallets, containing extremely worn cards on which you can't read the name or see the photo. I suspect it will not help your defence...

 

[atoq123]

As a first bit of advice, I wouldn't try telling them that you both have identical wallets, containing extremely worn cards on which you can't read the name or see the photo. I suspect it will not help your defence...

What do you think I should do?

 

[Haywain]

What do you think I should do?

I think you should read your explanation and ask yourself how believable that would sound to you if someone else had written it.

 

[atoq123]

I think you should read your explanation and ask yourself how believable that would sound to you if someone else had written it.

I know it might not sound believable but it’s the truth. We both had similar looking zip cards and case for our oysters. I don’t know how I can make it sound any more believable.

 

[TheJester]

It really doesn’t matter about making it sound more believable.

TFL will prosecute you for the single offence you committed.
We have seen instances where people have engaged a solicitor to avoid a prosecution, but this is obviously costly.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Transport for London take misuse of Zip Oyster Cards very seriously and a prosecution under the TfL Bylaws is the usual outcome.

What happens next is TfL will send you a Verification Letter which will ask you to confirm ir deny the offence. The letter is also your opportunity to tell TfL about anything you want them to take into account when they decide how to proceed.

TfL do not offer out of court settlements but they have been known to offer a final warning in very limited circumstances. While we cannot guarantee it, recent cases indicate that there is a far greater chance of a warning if you engage the services of a solicitor who specialises in rail fare evasion. Solicitors don't come cheap (reports I've seen suggest around £1,200+) and there can be no guarantee of obtaining a warning.

If you decide not to use a solicitor then I suggest mentioning the following points when you reply to the verification letter:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and TfL's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

If TfL do decide to prosecute then they are normally done through what is called a Single Justice Procedure Notice. This means that if you plead guilty it is not necessary to attend court in person (unless you choose to do), you simply return the form to the court with any mitigation you want them to take into account and they will write to you with the details of the fine you have to pay.

If you are prosecuted and plead guilty (or are found guilty by the court) then you will have to pay:

- A fine based on your incomem, normally discounted by a third if you plead guilty at the earliest opportunity
- A surcharge of 40% of the value of the fine
- A contribution towards TfL's costs
- Compensation for the fares avoided

If you are found guilty then this is a criminal conviction. If you are prosecuted under the TfL Bylaws (which is what normally happens) then the conviction would be considered as spent for most purposes after a year. A Bylaw conviction isn't normally recorded on the Police National Computer and won't normally appear on DBS checks although we always advise people to be honest when asked if they have a conviction. Given that you say you work for the Civil Service and mention your role requires clearance I would carefully check you contract of employment to find out if you have to disclose what has happened. A Byelaw conviction for a railway ticketing matter won't normally ipact career prospects but a failure to disclose it could be considered more serious than the offence itself.

Here's a link to TfL's Revenue Enforcement & Prosecutions Policy which you might find worth reading:
https://content.tfl.gov.uk/revenue-enforcement-and-prosecutions-policy.pdf

 

[AlterEgo]

I know it might not sound believable but it’s the truth. We both had similar looking zip cards and case for our oysters. I don’t know how I can make it sound any more believable.

It doesn't matter if they believe you or not. These are strict liability offences meaning you don't have to have intended to do it; they don't care, to put it simply. You were caught without a valid ticket and a prosecution is the normal outcome.

 

[atoq123]

It doesn't matter if they believe you or not. These are strict liability offences meaning you don't have to have intended to do it; they don't care, to put it simply. You were caught without a valid ticket and a prosecution is the normal outcome.

So i should just wait for the letter for now?

 

[Wolfie]

Today morning on the way to work I got caught using my brothers 11-15 zip card for train. I handed them my details so I’m not sure what I will get in the letter but based on what I’ve read from forums it’s usually a court case?
I believe I have a reason to back my case although it is not an excuse for this behaviour. I’m 19 and I had a 16-18 zip card for a while which is also a discounted card and I only started using train when I started my job in October so I didn’t know if it expired already. My card is also worn out like my brothers (can’t see face or name)so I wasn’t able to tell which card I picked up but I believed it was mine at that time since we both have the same oyster wallet. I also didn’t know it was expired until now since the card I thought was mine was obviously my brothers which worked so I continued using it without checking. My brother never uses his zip card that’s why he couldn’t tell that I’ve been using his the whole time.

It may seem like a fee evasion for months but I truly didn’t know. I work for civil service so I always stay cautious and stand with the law as it would affect my current clearance. Please can I get some advice. I don’t know what to expect and whether to plead guilty or not if I get that option.

Re your last para as a recently retired CS who made upper management level l suggest, particularly if you have NS clearances, that you talk to your TU immediately. You may well need to talk to your LM as soon as court action seems likely.

 

[SuspectUsual]

So i should just wait for the letter for now?

Yes, definitely

 

[Wolfie]

So i should just wait for the letter for now?

If you are a TU member engage with them immediately - they may well be able to offer legal advice.

 

[furlong]

"October"
"I've been using his the whole time"
"it might not sound believable"

How many times did you top up the card during that period? By how much each time?

Why didn't you notice that you weren't paying enough?

 

[AlterEgo]

So i should just wait for the letter for now?

Yes.

 

[atoq123]

"October"
"I've been using his the whole time"
"it might not sound believable"

How many times did you top up the card during that period? By how much each time?

Why didn't you notice that you weren't paying enough?

I only started using trains from then and always had a seperate wallet for oyster. It’s definitely a mistake from me for not checking the price surges for different cards but I would always top up in bulk like £50 every now and then until it would be low enough to top up again.

 

[30907]

I know it might not sound believable but it’s the truth. We both had similar looking zip cards and case for our oysters. I don’t know how I can make it sound any more believable.

Bear in mind that your own Zip card was also invalid, as you are no longer 18

 

[enyoueffsea]

Probably best to not use these excuses and just admit liability. Any remote chance of avoiding prosecution will immediately evaporate if you share any of the above, which is both unbelievable and unrealistic.

 

[Jigglybigglysi]

do you have any updates on the situation

 

[Spaceship323]

My card is also worn out like my brothers

Then you say:

My brother never uses his zip card

How does a card get worn out if it's never used? Please don't try to justify your actions here, as others have said you will probably be prosecuted for the one ticketing offence when you were caught

 

[atoq123]

I still haven’t received any letter yet. How long do they usually take?

 

[atoq123]

Hi everyone, I have made a stupid mistake of using my brothers zip card (I’m 19) and got caught on 25th march. I’ve been told I will receive a letter by TFL but I still haven’t received any letter yet. Does anyone know how long they usually take to arrive as it’s been more than a month?

Thanks

 

[ikcdab]

It can be several months. You just need to wait and come back here as soon as you receive the letter.