Tfls Taking over of the GWML London Suburban stations 10th December

[matt_world2004]

With TfL taking over the operation of the local suburban stations from the 10th December on the Great Western mainline (Acton Mainline to Burnham excluding Slough) is this the first time TfL have been the Station facility operator despite none of their services calling at the station?

Also is there going to be changes to staffing arrrangements at these stations?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

With TfL taking over the operation of the local suburban stations from the 10th December on the Great Western mainline (Acton Mainline to Burnham excluding Slough) is this the first time TfL have been the Station facility operator despite none of their services calling at the station?

Also is there going to be changes to staffing arrangements at these stations?

It might be something to do with CrossRail, for when CrossRail services eventually call at some of those stations

 

[matt_world2004]

It might be something to do with CrossRail, for when CrossRail services eventually call at some of those stations

Yes but for up to two years these stations are not going to have any TfL services calling at them.

 

[yorkie]

It might be something to do with CrossRail, for when CrossRail services eventually call at some of those stations

Understatement! All of those stations will be called at by CrossRail trains.

 

[cactustwirly]

I thought only the HC services were going over to TFL rail/Crossrail

 

[AM9]

Yes but for up to two years these stations are not going to have any TfL services calling at them.

If the 9-coach class 345s start operating out of Paddington in May 2018 as TfLRail, then six of the ten stations changing hands will have TfL services stopping at them. That's barely enough time to clean them up, get the toilets working and fit roundels on the platforms.

 

[matt_world2004]

I thought only the HC services were going over to TFL rail/Crossrail

They are but the station operation is switching over to tfl in december,

 

[LeeLivery]

If the 9-coach class 345s start operating out of Paddington in May 2018 as TfLRail, then six of the ten stations changing hands will have TfL services stopping at them. That's barely enough time to clean them up, get the toilets working and fit roundels on the platforms.

Fortunately they aren't in the awful state the Shenfield stations are in.

 

[swt_passenger]

I thought only the HC services were going over to TFL rail/Crossrail

During the initial phase (May 2018) Crossrail will take on both Heathrow Connect and the present 2 tph Hayes and Harlington GWR service. In a later phase Crossrail also takes on the majority of services to Maidenhead and Reading. This is surely widely known already?

 

[AM9]

Fortunately they aren't in the awful state the Shenfield stations are in.

According to recent news, Acton, Ealing Broadway, West Ealing, Southall and Hayes and Harlington station upgrades have all been delayed. The platform extensions will be complete by May 2018 but the improvements including level access and greater capacity may not be ready until the full Crossrail service starts.

 

[MatthewRead]

Do we have to wait until December 2018 before Oyster Pay As You Go is extended beyond West Drayton which is the furthest you can go on the GWML on oyster.

 

[IanXC]

Do we know which the 10 stations are? And what kind of an odd outpost the intermediates on the Greenford branch will become?!

Presumably these will now be effectively managed by the "Crossrail TOC"?

 

[MarlowDonkey]

Do we know which the 10 stations are?

Acton Main Line
Ealing Broadway
West Ealing
Hanwell & Elthorne
Southall
Hayes & Harlington
West Drayton
Iver
Langley
(not Slough)
Burnham
(not Taplow)
(not Maidenhead)

All the stations on the main line out of Paddington.

The original GWR had platforms on the main line for all stations except Burnham. Back in the 1970s, in the interests of getting the HSTs to Reading as quickly as possible, almost all the stations except Ealing Broadway and Slough had their Platform Ones decommissioned or even demolished. In the interests of being able to use the Mains when the Reliefs are under possession, "Platform 1" has been reinstated at some of the stations, but not the HX/ Greenford only ones, being Acton, West Ealing and Hanwell.

The Oyster zones only go as far as West Drayton at present. As to how card readers will be deployed to cope with passengers changing to or from through Crossrail trains at Reading, Twyford, Maidenhead and Slough remains to be seen.

 

[IanXC]

Acton Main Line
Ealing Broadway
West Ealing
Hanwell & Elthorne
Southall
Hayes & Harlington
West Drayton
Iver
Langley
(not Slough)
Burnham
(not Taplow)
(not Maidenhead)

All the stations on the main line out of Paddington.

The original GWR had platforms on the main line for all stations except Burnham. Back in the 1970s, in the interests of getting the HSTs to Reading as quickly as possible, almost all the stations except Ealing Broadway and Slough had their Platform Ones decommissioned or even demolished. In the interests of being able to use the Mains when the Reliefs are under possession, "Platform 1" has been reinstated at some of the stations, but not the HX/ Greenford only ones, being Acton, West Ealing and Hanwell.

The Oyster zones only go as far as West Drayton at present. As to how card readers will be deployed to cope with passengers changing to or from through Crossrail trains at Reading, Twyford, Maidenhead and Slough remains to be seen.

Some interesting points! Thanks for the list!

 

[Jonny]

I thought only the HC services were going over to TFL rail/Crossrail

I thought some "Elizabeth Line" services were to run through as far as Reading, and that the OLE Electrification that far was to facilitate its introduction, with the GWML scheme proper as an add-on. Or are the Crossrail-on-GWML services additional?

 

[AM9]

I thought some "Elizabeth Line" services were to run through as far as Reading, and that the OLE Electrification that far was to facilitate its introduction, with the GWML scheme proper as an add-on. Or are the Crossrail-on-GWML services additional?

The TfL electrification AIUI only extends to Maidenhead*, that being the original extent of Crossrail. There may be a budget adjustment between the scheme and the main GWML electrification over the Reading extension.

* there are also some upgrades to the original MKIII design OLE between Paddington and Airport Junction with its potentially troublesome headspans. I'm not sure whether this is a TfL or Network Rail responsibility though.

 

[matt_world2004]

Acton Main Line
Ealing Broadway
West Ealing
Hanwell & Elthorne
Southall
Hayes & Harlington
West Drayton
Iver
Langley
(not Slough)
Burnham
(not Taplow)
(not Maidenhead)

All the stations on the main line out of Paddington.

The original GWR had platforms on the main line for all stations except Burnham. Back in the 1970s, in the interests of getting the HSTs to Reading as quickly as possible, almost all the stations except Ealing Broadway and Slough had their Platform Ones decommissioned or even demolished. In the interests of being able to use the Mains when the Reliefs are under possession, "Platform 1" has been reinstated at some of the stations, but not the HX/ Greenford only ones, being Acton, West Ealing and Hanwell.

The Oyster zones only go as far as West Drayton at present. As to how card readers will be deployed to cope with passengers changing to or from through Crossrail trains at Reading, Twyford, Maidenhead and Slough remains to be seen.

Hayes and harlington and Southall have had platforms on the fasts for years , the Hayes and harlington ones look modern but I suspect Southalls are the original platforms ( If not southalls are in quite a poor state)

 

[swt_passenger]

* there are also some upgrades to the original MKIII design OLE between Paddington and Airport Junction with its potentially troublesome headspans. I'm not sure whether this is a TfL or Network Rail responsibility though.

That part of the work seems to be only mentioned as part of the the IEP Western Infrastructure Capability project, so must presumably be a Network Rail thing.

 

[coppercapped]

I thought some "Elizabeth Line" services were to run through as far as Reading, and that the OLE Electrification that far was to facilitate its introduction, with the GWML scheme proper as an add-on. Or are the Crossrail-on-GWML services additional?

The electrification to Maidenhead is funded and managed as part of the Crossrail project. The electrification from Maidenhead westwards is funded as part of the GW Electrification Project.

However it was always intended by TfL that Crossrail would be extended to Reading but it was not announced until the rebuild of the Reading area was completed to avoid TfL having to carry some of the costs, specifically those of the extra Relief Line platforms at Reading necessary to reverse the Crossrail trains. This being the case the design of the overhead kit as far as Reading was done by the Crossrail team so there are differences between it and the NR Series 1 design west of the station as was explained by Philip Phlopp in posts to this Forum a year or so ago.

As has been posted frequently, Crossrail will initially run 2 off-peak trains per hour to Reading which will replace the two 'most-stations' Reading terminators from Paddington. This has two advantages:

1. the need for an all stations shuttle between Reading and Slough and a new reversing platform at Slough which would be necessary if Crossrail ended at Maidenhead is avoided
2. many people travel to or via Reading from the intermediate stations and Crossrail will pick up a proportion of this revenue through the ORCATS process which will improve the financial performance of its western branch.

Crossrail is looking to increase the service to 4 per hour further in the future but this will involve some considerable re-juggling of the Thames Valley timetables.

 

[coppercapped]

That part of the work seems to be only mentioned as part of the the IEP Western Infrastructure Capability project, so must presumably be a Network Rail thing.

Reading the runes very carefully, there seems to be two parts to this work. One is 'resilience', by which I understand means replacing some or all of the headspans with portals to enable independent suspension (so to speak) of the contact and catenary wires and the other is to raise the permitted speed west of Acton Yard.

I daresay that trying to work out which bit of work belongs to which programme was deemed to be too complicated - so it's all got bundled together under the IEP umbrella..!

 

[simple simon]

I wonder if the service will be operated as 'TfL Rail' until through trains to central London actually begin?

Simon

 

[matt_world2004]

I wonder if the service will be operated as 'TfL Rail' until through trains to central London actually begin?

Simon

The heathrow connect replacement is going to be operated as tfl rail.

 

[plcd1]

A joint announcement between TfL / the Mayor and the DfT has confirmed today that additional services will operate through the Crossrail core and also in West London. This is in addition to the planned and already announced services to Heathrow T5. Frequencies to Reading go up to 4 trains per hour. A formal press release has not reached the TfL website so this feature from Mayorwatch captures the detail.

http://www.mayorwatch.co.uk/tfl-confirms-boost-to-elizabeth-line-train-frequency/

Railway Gazette have confirmed that 4 extra class 345 trains will be ordered. This was foreseen in a TfL Board paper several months ago. It now looks like a pretty intensive piece of work has been going on with the DfT to rejig the scope of services between GWR and Crossrail. It is noteworthy that Chris Grayling is quoted in the press release that forms the basis of the Mayorwatch article.

 

[bicbasher]

With TfL taking over the operation of the local suburban stations from the 10th December on the Great Western mainline (Acton Mainline to Burnham excluding Slough) is this the first time TfL have been the Station facility operator despite none of their services calling at the station?

TfL took over management of now former Southern stations between New Cross Gate and West Croydon/Crystal Palace in September 2009 when Southern were still the only operator serving those stations until May 2010.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

Hayes and harlington and Southall have had platforms on the fasts for years , the Hayes and harlington ones look modern but I suspect Southalls are the original platforms

From memories of commuting in the 1970s, I think the Hayes platform on the fast may have been demolished then. It may well have returned when the Heathrow branch was opened. The platform at Southall is or was an Island platform for the Brentford branch to the south.

 

[Rich McLean]

With the peak changes, unless there will be certain trains that start and terminate at Reading to and from the west during the peak, 18tph will have to fit between Paddington and Stockly on the fasts every hour.

I predict at least one out of the two Pad - Didcots that are moved into the fasts to be turned at Reading, and the other Maidenhead and Twyford calls only. Also I think the Bedwyn will be started from Reading to bring it down to 16tph.

If the 18tph does happen, any cough from the signalling or trains don't leave RT from every platform it will cause hours of delays.

 

[Mintona]

It's going to be hard work to get it to all fit, that's for sure. A departure every 3 minutes pretty much.

 

[matt_world2004]

From memories of commuting in the 1970s, I think the Hayes platform on the fast may have been demolished then. It may well have returned when the Heathrow branch was opened. The platform at Southall is or was an Island platform for the Brentford branch to the south.

The fast platforms have been there since 2005 at least. A picture on wikipedia indicates there have been platforms simce 1994

 

[coppercapped]

With the peak changes, unless there will be certain trains that start and terminate at Reading to and from the west during the peak, 18tph will have to fit between Paddington and Stockly on the fasts every hour.

I predict at least one out of the two Pad - Didcots that are moved into the fasts to be turned at Reading, and the other Maidenhead and Twyford calls only. Also I think the Bedwyn will be started from Reading to bring it down to 16tph.

If the 18tph does happen, any cough from the signalling or trains don't leave RT from every platform it will cause hours of delays.

That set of circumstances is quite possible. If it happens it will be quite difficult to explain to people living 40 and more miles from London why their train service is less attractive due to the extension of a Tube railway in London.

If TfL wants to run such an intensive service it should buy its own tracks.

 

[Quark999]

I was under the impression Taplow will become a TFL managed station as well (e.g. marked as such at http://content.tfl.gov.uk/board-20161215-item13-crossrail-services-transition.pdf if I read it correctly).

Have I missed something as to why it wouldn't be? I understand the "bigger" stations to the West will be managed by GWR or Network Rail, but with the latest changes to service patterns Taplow will probably exclusively be a Crossrail station. Tfl also seems to be the ones implementing step free access at Taplow.