TfW 15x/17x withdrawals (17x now finished)

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Hello

There is a thread to track the cascades of 170s to EMR, and a thread to note the day to day availability of 175s during their plague, but nothing to track the withdrawals of 150/not staying 153s/158s and 175s.

Please do update this thread when you become aware of another train standing down and being released to the leasing company. I believe all 175/0 need to go by the end of August.

EDIT 6/1/2024:
Class 170 and Class 175 fleets have been stood down entirely. All 175s have been debranded and stored. All 170s have transferred to EMR, except for 170208, which is stored at Cardiff Canton ahead of transfer at the end of January.

 

[sd0733]

The path for tomorrow is in to take another unit(s) to Landore.

Realtime Trains | 3Z98 0918 Chester D.M.U.D. to Landore T.M.D. | 16/06/2023

Real-time train running information for 3Z98 0918 departure from Chester D.M.U.D. to Landore T.M.D. on 16/06/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Believe 175004, 010 and 011 are now stood down so will be amongst the next ones to go.

 

[anamyd]

I wonder what Angel will do with the 175s they get back?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

175002
175005
175006
175007

are the condemned ones off lease so far.

These units are off lease from TfW but not condemned from operating stock - Angel Trains are still offering them as available for lease.

There’s a big difference between condemned and off-lease.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

These units are off lease from TfW but not condemned from operating stock - Angel Trains are still offering them as available for lease.

There’s a big difference between condemned and off-lease.

I think you know exactly what I mean. Condemned from TfW.

The path for tomorrow is in to take another unit(s) to Landore.

Realtime Trains | 3Z98 0918 Chester D.M.U.D. to Landore T.M.D. | 16/06/2023

Real-time train running information for 3Z98 0918 departure from Chester D.M.U.D. to Landore T.M.D. on 16/06/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Believe 175004, 010 and 011 are now stood down so will be amongst the next ones to go.

Thanks! Updated as such. Only four two cars left then!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I think you know exactly what I mean. Condemned from TfW.

Condemned isn't a synonym of off-lease though. It has connotations of structural unsoundness. You wouldn't describe an unoccupied building as being condemned simply because it wasn't being used.

Whilst I do expect that the most likely destination for the 175s is the shredder at Newport, this isn't a foregone conclusion.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Condemned isn't a synonym of off-lease though. It has connotations of structural unsoundness. You wouldn't describe an unoccupied building as being condemned simply because it wasn't being used.

Whilst I do expect that the most likely destination for the 175s is the shredder at Newport, this isn't a foregone conclusion.

Agreed, on the railway condemned means withdrawn from traffic and ahead of being removed from the rolling stock library. The 175s are what would be traditionally shown as Stored (either serviceable or unserviceable) as they are simply off lease, similar to 379s etc.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Condemned isn't a synonym of off-lease though. It has connotations of structural unsoundness. You wouldn't describe an unoccupied building as being condemned simply because it wasn't being used.

Whilst I do expect that the most likely destination for the 175s is the shredder at Newport, this isn't a foregone conclusion.

Agreed, on the railway condemned means withdrawn from traffic and ahead of being removed from the rolling stock library. The 175s are what would be traditionally shown as Stored (either serviceable or unserviceable) as they are simply off lease, similar to 379s etc.

Okay, that’s fine, I get that. We can surely move on now

 

[43096]

Condemned isn't a synonym of off-lease thought. It has connotations of structural unsoundness. You wouldn't describe an unoccupied building as being condemned simply because it wasn't being used.

The same applies with the use of “withdrawn”, which is prevalent as a term for stock taken out of services. “Withdrawn” and “condemned” can by used interchangeably and really relate to vehicles being moved to a specific status on the national vehicle register.

 

[sd0733]

Thanks! Updated as such. Only four two cars left then!

3 really, I think we can safely say 008 won't see any future use with TfW too!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

3 really, I think we can safely say 008 won't see any future use with TfW too!

Surely they won’t last long. There’s not much that can be done with a fleet of three trains (although I’m aware that’s how many 170s they now have), unless all remaining 175s become a common fleet regardless of mixed lengths.

 

[sd0733]

Surely they won’t last long. There’s not much that can be done with a fleet of three trains (although I’m aware that’s how many 170s they now have), unless all remaining 175s become a common fleet regardless of mixed lengths.

Unlikely. That Landore path is scheduled to run every Friday now.

Looks like officially there are 3 175/0 diagrams still. However one Is uncovered (shortformed 3vs5 car) one is covered by 2x153 and one by a 150.

175001 is on a 175/1 diagram and 009 is on a 150 diagram. 003 has been stopped at Chester since 8th June too.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I hope the 175/1s will last a fair while longer. I’m quite sad to see such a big decline especially as they’re not likely to have a home after.

Thanks so much for the information.

 

[sd0733]

I hope the 175/1s will last a fair while longer. I’m quite sad to see such a big decline especially as they’re not likely to have a home after.

Thanks so much for the information.

As I understand it the /1s will follow immediately after the /0s. Things may change but that seems to be the consensus.

 

[Anonymous10]

As I understand it the /1s will follow immediately after the /0s. Things may change but that seems to be the consensus.

By that logic unless the mk4 sets get alot more reliable or the 197s start on more south routes soon that'll cause yet more cancellations due to a over stretched fleet....

 

[sd0733]

By that logic unless the mk4 sets get alot more reliable or the 197s start on more south routes soon that'll cause yet more cancellations due to a over stretched fleet....

The idea is one 197 will be accepted each week to replace the one going off lease.

 

[Anonymous10]

The idea is one 197 will be accepted each week to replace the one going off lease.

Still they'll need to be south soon I thought all north diagrams apart from the Holyhead-Birmingham which interior with cambrian are 197s already?

 

[Nick Ashwell]

The idea is one 197 will be accepted each week to replace the one going off lease.

But does accepted also equal crew trained at the same rate?

 

[Topological]

It needs to be 2 x 197 for each 175 as well as Manchester is booked as a 5 car 197 and hence needs 2 units.

Either way it looks like a summer of fun is ahead.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

as well as Manchester is booked as a 5 car 197 and hence needs 2 units.

A 3 car 197 would be better than the 2 car sprinters that show up on it currently, and that doesn't take 2 units.

 

[Topological]

A 3 car 197 would be better than the 2 car sprinters that show up on it currently, and that doesn't take 2 units.

True

But the 2 cars are only there because TfW are unwilling to provide what they are supposed to. That should not become the benchmark. Had TfW maintained their 175s and produced a plan where the units going off lease were already well covered then we would not be seeing the 2 car sprinters.

Anyway, we are where we are. It is just difficult to see how a private operator would have done worse.

 

[50002Superb]

According to Railways Illustrated June 2023 the following are to be returned to Porterbrook as the 398s and 756s are introduced:

153320/323/325/329/333/361/367/369
153906/909/910/913/914/921/922/926/935

There’s no date specified

 

[yrreb]

Posted this in the earlier 175 thread by accident but there's apparently a future for the 175s but unconfirmed what that is https://twitter.com/shaunontrains/status/1659864787709313024

"According to Angel trains the future of the class 175s is secure after @tfwrail has finished with them, with a “new operator lined up” - ShaunOnTrains, Twitter

 

[sd0733]

But does accepted also equal crew trained at the same rate?

The more accepted units, the easier it becomes to do training runs as accepted units don't need a CAF fitter so it'll certainly help

 

[dunc695]

Posted this in the earlier 175 thread by accident but there's apparently a future for the 175s but unconfirmed what that is https://twitter.com/shaunontrains/status/1659864787709313024

I did wonder if a few 175s would end up with Northern, I wonder what diagrams they'd use them for? I remember them with FNW doing the Windermere and Barrow services years ago.

 

[Geeves]

I can't really see Northern wanting to take on another fleet but you never know and again it's the government that has the final say. 175s to Clitheroe will be a nice ride! I could see Chiltern being a good fit. Wasn't it rumoured that 175s might end up on E W rail?

 

[dunc695]

I can't really see Northern wanting to take on another fleet but you never know and again it's the government that has the final say. 175s to Clitheroe will be a nice ride! I could see Chiltern being a good fit. Wasn't it rumoured that 175s might end up on E W rail?

Well they love hand me down units on the Southport line for a start!

 

[Caaardiff]

I can't really see Northern wanting to take on another fleet but you never know and again it's the government that has the final say. 175s to Clitheroe will be a nice ride! I could see Chiltern being a good fit. Wasn't it rumoured that 175s might end up on E W rail?

So far I think the rumours have been Chiltern, Northern, E&W and GWR. Apparently its only the 2 cars that have found a new home, or for now at least.

How desperate are Northern for units? Don't forget TFW took on a small (12) fleet of 170s when they become available.

 

[The_Train]

So far I think the rumours have been Chiltern, Northern, E&W and GWR. Apparently its only the 2 cars that have found a new home, or for now at least.

How desperate are Northern for units? Don't forget TFW took on a small (12) fleet of 170s when they become available.

Chiltern and E&W is the same thing and in my humble opinion is the most likely destination of the 175s

 

[Philip]

EWR will be using 196s