TfW Class 170

[Caaardiff]

ABB125 said:
According to the latest edition of Modern Railways, one TfW class 170 is being "temporarily" sub-leased to EMR. This is apparently beneficial to both parties: TfW are running a reduced timetable, and there are limited routes on which they can run class 170s, so getting rid of one unit frees up depot space; EMR also need more class 170s, as WMR's units are transferring more slowly than expected.
The article also suggests that, following its renationalisation, TfW's fleet strategy is being revised; it's expected that the whole fleet will move to EMR, but apparently neither operator would comment. I'm sure I read on here somewhere someone suggesting that the TfW fleet should move to EMR, but I may be imagining it!

Above quote taken from the EMR 170 thread.
A 2 car 170 is being sub-leased to EMR and according to the magazine there is talk that the whole 170 fleet will move to EMR.
The 170 fleet has been great for Maesteg, Cheltenham and Ebbw Vale lines but has restrictions in going elsewhere. There often appears to be a number of 170's sat around every day. There appears to be no desire to route clear them on the VOG or west of Bridgend, which seems strange as they were intended to be cascaded down West. Unless there is issues with the clearance. It seems money wasted in leasing 12 units where only about 7-8 are used at maximum.
IF they do all leave TfW it will be interesting to see what replaces them down West and on HOWL services.
It would be good to exchange the 170's with some of EMR's 158s that would easily fit in with TfW and could work non- Cambrian routes.

 

[Brissle Girl]

The acquisition of some more Mk 4 stock creates some additional capacity to release units for Class 170 work, although by no means enough.

 

[David Goddard]

An interesting article, but it does seem to make sense. The continued waffling about Southern's (original) 171s can finally be put to bed - they cant go anywhere until alternatives are sourced, end of, and so the Welsh examples can go to EMR instead. Should have gone straight there from GA really.
Like the suggestion about swapping with some 158s, pretty much go anywhere trains which TfW can make use of, but if the 170s are currently siting about doing nothing they might not need them anyway, however the imminent departure of the last 143s and 153s will need a backfill somewhere.
The same issue talks about the Mk4s, which seems to be gathering pace at last, so their place can soon be filled.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

170s (maybe the same ones?) were regularly used on Central routes from Birmingham, including the Cambrian and Chester routes via Shrewsbury, before ATW came along and got rid of them.
Working the Cambrian is obviously out today because of lack of ETCS, but there's surely no reason they couldn't be used on Birmingham-Shrewsbury-Chester trains?
I can't remember if 170s have ever been used on other routes from Chester.
It seems incredible we have TfW wringing their hands about shortage of stock, with 170s sat idle at Cardiff and now loaned out to EMR.

 

[sd0733]

Like the suggestion about swapping with some 158s, pretty much go anywhere trains which TfW can make use of

Any 158s brought in wouldnt quite be go anywhere as they wouldnt be able to go on the Cambrian without ERTMS signalling.

The swap does seem to make sense though if it happens, 170s have always seemed a very odd fit for the routes they do and the limit to their operation compared to the rest of the fleet

170s (maybe the same ones?) were regularly used on Central routes from Birmingham, including the Cambrian and Chester routes via Shrewsbury, before ATW came along and got rid of them.
Working the Cambrian is obviously out today because of lack of ETCS, but there's surely no reason they couldn't be used on Birmingham-Shrewsbury-Chester trains?
I can't remember if 170s have ever been used on other routes from Chester.
It seems incredible we have TfW wringing their hands about shortage of stock, with 170s sat idle at Cardiff and now loaned out to EMR.

The problem is the timetable makes a lot of the Birmingham circuits do Aberystwyth-International-Chester/Holyhead so without splitting them out it couldnt work.

Also no Crew outside Cardiff sign 170s, the last thing needed right now is to start a mass training program on another extra fleet on the North

 

[Caaardiff]

Indeed it really wouldn't be worth trying to move them to elsewhere on the TfW network. There's enough training going on as it is. If the 12 170's were to swap for say 10 158's, both TfW and EMR would benefit. They were be receiving 8 3 cars so additional carriages vs 158's, whereas TfW can use the 158's on the current 170 routes, with a 153 attached for peak times (non-prm if they get extended) and some 158's can be utilised in West Wales to free up more 150's for the Valleys.
The suggestion of 170's going is from the magazine and no confirmation has actually be made from either TOC that it's happening, so it may not happen or it could be something happening some time away.

Also there's no date for the extra Mk4's. I can see them displacing 2 car 175's to do Chester - Crewe & Chester - Liverpool routes, moving 153's currently on them back down South.

 

[sd0733]

Also there's no date for the extra Mk4's. I can see them displacing 2 car 175's to do Chester - Crewe & Chester - Liverpool routes, moving 153's currently on them back down South.

The existing sets are due into service on 7th June on 1 diagram to start with, the extra ex Grand Central sets are due to begon service at the December 2022 timetable change which seems an extremely long time away.

The Liverpool line is back to being booked 175. The pair of 153s is now split as 2 spare units and used to strengthen certain Holyhead workings as required

 

[HST43257]

The existing sets are due into service on 7th June on 1 diagram to start with, the extra ex Grand Central sets are due to begon service at the December 2022 timetable change which seems an extremely long time away.

The Liverpool line is back to being booked 175. The pair of 153s is now split as 2 spare units and used to strengthen certain Holyhead workings as required

First TfW in on 7th June?

 

[sd0733]

First TfW in on 7th June?

Yes the old Holyhead to Cardiff and back diagram.

 

[Cardiff123]

I'm pretty sure that once the Stadler Flirt 231s take over the Maesteg - Cheltenham & Ebbw Vale services, that the 170s were due to be transferred west to work west Wales routes and the Heart of Wales line. I'm also pretty sure that 158s are not cleared for the HoW (from what I've read before on these forums). Plus 158s are very rapidly approaching retirement age, only a few years after the 150s.

Maybe a follow on order for more CAF 197s is being considered?