TfW Guard refusing (and removing) uniformed Northern railway driver, going to rescue a train, to travel without a ticket.

[realemil]

I saw this tweet today: https://twitter.com/SK22Ram/status/1720172464754315531?t=dK1KJCNZQEy6S_-xnCuHYg&s=19

"****ing hell" with the following image attached:

Guard working 1V35 [07:30 Manchester Piccadilly - Carmarthen] refused fully uniformed Northern driver en-route to rescue a train travel and removed them from the service until the driver paid for a ticket. Delay caused at Stockport due to this and the driver will be making a complaint.

The train did appear to lose 2 minutes at Stockport, assuming this is from today: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:W26518/2023-11-02/detailed

 

[michael74]

(If true)..... Why didn't the driver just flash his duty authority to travel card?

 

[realemil]

(If true)..... Why didn't the driver just flash his duty authority to travel card?

Reading the comments, it appears that this person (the guard) is known to do things like this, as experienced by others…

I will make a grave assumption that his duty authority to travel card was rejected.

 

[michael74]

Reading the comments, it appears that this person (the guard) is known to do things like this, as experienced by others…

I will make a grave assumption that his duty authority to travel card was rejected.

Then if true the guard requires an interview sans tea and biscuits.

 

[Alanko]

Sounds like the opportunity to exercise a little authority over the general population has attracted a Walt to the ranks.

 

[ComUtoR]

(If true)..... Why didn't the driver just flash his duty authority to travel card?

20yrs on the railway and I have never seen one of those. (seen various day travel passes for interviews etc.)

Do Northern and TFW have an arrangement for duty travel ? At my TOC we used to get caught on the underground taking a shortcut between stations. Some days you would get challenged and others times the Gateline staff member would just turn a blind eye and let you through. IIRC you could tap a card and then tap out a minute later and not get charged.

Sadly, "Railway Family" doesn't always exist and for every person who lets staff have a free pass or upgrade, someone else will complain or carry out their job to the letter.

I've even had my own TOCs Guards/OBS check my ticket when I'm wearing a company ID badge.

 

[Sheffcaster202]

Technically the Duty Authority Travel card should be accompanied by a diagram that shows the service you should be travelling on. Id assume being on the way to rescue a failed train wouldn’t have a diagram but even a very small amount of common sense should prevail here…

I’ve experience an oddity like this before though when using another TOC to travel home, major disruption so asked the TM if I could hitch a ride to get home, almost laughed away and told you don’t even need to ask, found myself a cosy doorway to sit on my bag in (train was packed and for a freebie/favour wasn’t going for a seat)
Revenue inspected then walked me 4 carriages down to check my story out with the TM…

Sometimes railway staff do themselves no favours!

EDIT:

Just checked out the back of my card and it states “This card must be shown when requested with the rostered diagram, Safety Critical at Work Identity card (or equivalent) or a letter from your employer giving details of your training with the Driver Academy. If the holder does not have one they must explain to revenue staff the duty they are carrying out.”

So realistically the driver should have been fine and should the guard have wanted to verify this, a quick call to control could have sorted that!

 

[urbophile]

It's not an oddity or a joke. It's a sad reality of the privatised disintegrated railway network that has been inflicted on us.

 

[Sheffcaster202]

It's not an oddity or a joke. It's a sad reality of the privatised disintegrated railway network that has been inflicted on us.

I was going for the diplomatic approach for describing my situation with “oddity”
Don’t think my genuine opinion is appropriate for public airing!

 

[Bald Rick]

oIt's not an oddity or a joke. It's a sad reality of the privatised disintegrated railway network that has been inflicted on us.

Noting that both TfW and Northern are state owned and controlled.

 

[Peterthegreat]

Noting that both TfW and Northern are state owned and controlled.

Different states. (Inserts smiley).

 

[Bald Rick]

Different states. (Inserts smiley).

well quite. Yorkshire and Lancashire.

 

[Archvile]

Sounds like a right "see you next Tuesday"...

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

TfW has some very, VERY desperate guards and revenue staff.

 

[Wolfie]

Then if true the guard requires an interview sans tea and biscuits.

The guard requires a UB40 if the allegations are true. Oh and hopefully he will be banned from using any Northern services.

 

[Russel]

TfW has some very, VERY desperate guards and revenue staff.

From experience of travel in North Wales, you have a point.

Proper ticket examinations after nearly every station, total opposite of the once a journey walk through the train glancing in the general direction of your ticket that seems to have become the norm in England.

 

[matt_world2004]

20yrs on the railway and I have never seen one of those. (seen various day travel passes for interviews etc.)

Do Northern and TFW have an arrangement for duty travel ? At my TOC we used to get caught on the underground taking a shortcut between stations. Some days you would get challenged and others times the Gateline staff member would just turn a blind eye and let you through. IIRC you could tap a card and then tap out a minute later and not get charged.

Sadly, "Railway Family" doesn't always exist and for every person who lets staff have a free pass or upgrade, someone else will complain or carry out their job to the letter.

I've even had my own TOCs Guards/OBS check my ticket when I'm wearing a company ID badge.

Duty passes are not valid on the underground (Barring some exemptions) because its not a national rail service. They are valid on all national rail services though with the appropriate duty statement

I have had many incidents with tfl franchised TOCs not letting me use the facilities at their stations despite ot being s requirement in their concession agreement to provide mutual assistance in those matters. Including in Stations I am working in

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

From experience of travel in North Wales, you have a point.

Proper ticket examinations after nearly every station, total opposite of the once a journey walk through the train glancing in the general direction of your ticket that seems to have become the norm in England.

I don’t denounce people for doing their job properly but it’s a complete case of one extreme or the other. You either get a guard who checks every five minutes, wants a railcard shown, and will do everything rather desperately by the book, or one that doesn’t check once. There’s no middle ground.

 

[Russel]

I don’t denounce people for doing their job properly but it’s a complete case of one extreme or the other. You either get a guard who checks every five minutes, wants a railcard shown, and will do everything rather desperately by the book, or one that doesn’t check once. There’s no middle ground.

I agree, there is no consistency.

Off topic here, but what annoys me more is on stock with automatic announcements, certain guards have to repeat them, adding nothing to what has just been said, LNWR Trent Valley guards are bad for this.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I agree, there is no consistency.

So ironic that the one Valleys guard who always demands railcards on a line as short as the Bay shuttle is also the guard who is soft-hearted on the menace Vale of Glamorgan school boys and seems to let them have a free ride to Dinas Powys or Cadoxton. I’ve seen her do it before.

I wonder what Northern have made of all this

 

[matt_world2004]

Here are the conditions of use for duty authority cards https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/images/RST/RST_Conditions_of_Issue__and_Use_v10.pdf section 12

 

[185]

Lolol, lost for words ...but it's fair to say this silliness was far more commonplace 20-25 years ago.

Without knowing the full circumstances, I'm not going to pass judgement just yet, however asking myself how this could happen, mere speculation but you may have a rather overly keen guard, and a driver who perhaps hasn't bothered ask for a lift, or totally ignored the guard during their ticket check.

Always been of the view the more the merrier rail staff (sober or otherwise) & cops (of any force) onboard for when things go wrong.

 

[LowLevel]

20yrs on the railway and I have never seen one of those. (seen various day travel passes for interviews etc.)

Do Northern and TFW have an arrangement for duty travel ? At my TOC we used to get caught on the underground taking a shortcut between stations. Some days you would get challenged and others times the Gateline staff member would just turn a blind eye and let you through. IIRC you could tap a card and then tap out a minute later and not get charged.

Sadly, "Railway Family" doesn't always exist and for every person who lets staff have a free pass or upgrade, someone else will complain or carry out their job to the letter.

I've even had my own TOCs Guards/OBS check my ticket when I'm wearing a company ID badge.

It's a Rail Staff Travel issued smartcard with Duty Authority to Travel Card written on it. All traincrew should have one. Very definitely a national item. It's valid on any TOC in standard class for legitimate operational reasons, both diagrammed PASS moves or ad hoc ones - for example if I'm required for cross depot cover at short notice it would be perfectly within the rules for me to use any TOC's train to travel to whichever station I need to, same as if my own company's train which I was booked to PASS on is cancelled and I need to use another TOC's train to avoid my own train being delayed or cancelled.

Ours used to be handwritten and issued by the TOC but RST started issuing the smart cards a few years ago.

This kind of behaviour is out of order. I'd have sat there and let them call the BTP out whilst simultaneously reporting to the signaller that the guard of the train is clearly unfit for duty given their erratic and unreasonable behaviour and requires management attendance.

There's no place on the railway for people who become so engrossed in the concept of "their train" that they lose the bigger picture.

 

[AlastairFraser]

The guard requires a UB40 if the allegations are true. Oh and hopefully he will be banned from using any Northern services.

A UB40? Forgive me if I'm being stupid, but is this something on the railway I'm unfamiliar with or did you mean a P45?

 

[baz962]

A UB40? Forgive me if I'm being stupid, but is this something on the railway I'm unfamiliar with or did you mean a P45?

UB40 was also what you got when unemployed in the past. Nothing to do with railway , the benefits office gave it to you.

 

[sd0733]

Knowing more about this, that log is an extremely distorted account of what happened.
Yes, A Northern staff member was charged and chose to pay to Stockport and leave there. They weren't thrown off causing a delay nor were they a driver or member of Traincrew.

Poor show that the log was used in this way to 'out' a member of staff in a very inaccurate entry before then being shared far and wide, obviously originally by another member of staff.

 

[800001]

Knowing more about this, that log is an extremely distorted account of what happened.
Yes, A Northern staff member was charged and chose to pay to Stockport and leave there. They weren't thrown off causing a delay nor were they a driver or member of Traincrew.

Poor show that the log was used in this way to 'out' a member of staff in a very inaccurate entry before then being shared far and wide, obviously originally by another member of staff.

So a member of staff travelling off duty thinking they could hop on and get a free ride?

 

[zwk500]

The original tweet has now been deleted. Further evidence that people should 1. Not share internal logs without permission and 2. Not take twitter at its word, even with 'official' sources.

 

[norbitonflyer]

So a member of staff travelling off duty thinking they could hop on and get a free ride?

I thought he was on duty - travelling to take over a train.

 

[800001]

I thought he was on duty - travelling to take over a train.

Read post 26 that I was answering to!!!!