Thameslink core meltdown on Friday

[Abpj17]

I'm surprised that I can't see any mention at all - not a new thread or a post within an existing thread.

There was a problem with the third rail in the core on Friday night. At some stage, the southbound trains started to run on the northbound tracks.

Incidents can happen sometimes. The comms in this case however was awful. It's like GTR hasn't learnt anything.

Screens still pretending that a train might be coming for it to transpire 20 mins later it actually isn't and never will.

Announcing as train pulls in that it'll be on a different platform to normal. Given the platforms are 12 cars long that was a long run for some passengers. To his possible credit the driver waited quite a while before pulling away (unless that was signalling)

No staff to provide advice on the platform (although one did shout over from the other platform).

And the message put on the website and twitter bears little relation to what services were actually running.
https://twitter.com/TLRailUK/status/954437092255379456

"some northbound and southbound lines are blocked between Blackfriars and St Pancras"

- some?? they only have one of each....

"reduced service through [core stations]"

in practice there was no northbound service, and a southbound service stopping at the northbound platforms

"half hourly services between Luton and Wimbledon [and St Albans and Sutton]"

...or not as no evidence of a northbound service.
Allegedly services were turning round at St Pancras. But that's not mentioned at all.
And the ticket acceptance only seems to cover south/west/east services - zero mention for northbound travellers. Not even acceptance on the Great Northern operated under the same super-franchise.
Similarly, London Bus acceptance is only mentioned for south of Blackfriars. Nothing to the North.
And one of their announcements doesn't even mention EMT trains as an option despite validity.

Ugh.

 

[The Box Photter]

I'm surprised that I can't see any mention at all - not a new thread or a post within an existing thread.

There was a problem with the third rail in the core on Friday night. At some stage, the southbound trains started to run on the northbound tracks.

Incidents can happen sometimes. The comms in this case however was awful. It's like GTR hasn't learnt anything.

Screens still pretending that a train might be coming for it to transpire 20 mins later it actually isn't and never will.

Announcing as train pulls in that it'll be on a different platform to normal. Given the platforms are 12 cars long that was a long run for some passengers. To his possible credit the driver waited quite a while before pulling away (unless that was signalling)

No staff to provide advice on the platform (although one did shout over from the other platform).

And the message put on the website and twitter bears little relation to what services were actually running.
https://twitter.com/TLRailUK/status/954437092255379456
"some northbound and southbound lines are blocked between Blackfriars and St Pancras" - some?? they only have one of each....
"reduced service through [core stations]" in practice there was no northbound service, and a southbound service stopping at the northbound platforms
"half hourly services between Luton and Wimbledon [and St Albans and Sutton]" ...or not as no evidence of a northbound service.
Allegedly services were turning round at St Pancras. But that's not mentioned at all.
And the ticket acceptance only seems to cover south/west/east services - zero mention for northbound travellers. Not even acceptance on the Great Northern operated under the same super-franchise.
Similarly, London Bus acceptance is only mentioned for south of Blackfriars. Nothing to the North.
And one of their announcements doesn't even mention EMT trains as an option despite validity.

Ugh.

I was at Blackfriars waiting for the 1736 northbound. There were orange-clad people pacing up and down the southbound platform (Platform 1), looking at the track and muttering into mobile phones. Suddenly, it was announced that the 17-something train to somewhere in third-rail land would now be departing from platform 2. This created some confusion as platform 2 was already quite full with us victims waiting to go home to civilised OHLE-land. The platform staff did their best to make sure that no-one wanting to go north inadvertently ended upon a mystery tour through the South London suburbs. I'm sure at least on or two muggles must have got on the southbound train whilst engrossed in the next level of Candy Crush on their phone.

It seems to me that the plans for cramming more and more trains through the two-track core will inevitably result in meltdown on a regular basis. Only the effect will be spread over a wider number of the unsuspecting travelling public. As I've said, just because you can do something it doesn't mean you should.

 

[sarahj]

The problem was a smoking third rail. Network rail went, from we cam fix this now, to well it might take some time, to it's an all nighter. So the TL service was, a slight hold up, to right, perhaps we can do some Bi/Di running, to sod it.

 

[The Box Photter]

The problem was a smoking third rail. Network rail went, from we cam fix this now, to well it might take some time, to it's an all nighter. So the TL service was, a slight hold up, to right, perhaps we can do some Bi/Di running, to sod it.

Hmm, so Network Rail at fault. It always astounds me that so much of the network in key places still relies on such an archaic method of delivering traction current. The DC/AC changeover points in the Core are an inbuilt weakness that could have been designed out whilst all the other Thameslink work has been going on.
Surely it would make more sense to extend the current changeover further south to Elephant or London Bridge, where at least if things go wrong, there are more tracks for diversion purposes. This makes even more sense given that the most recent stock is all dual voltage capable anyway.

 

[D365]

Hmm, so Network Rail at fault. It always astounds me that so much of the network in key places still relies on such an archaic method of delivering traction current.

DC electrification? Who's going to pay to change it all over?

 

[The Box Photter]

DC electrification? Who's going to pay to change it all over?

I don't know. Who pays for all the cost of disruption when the infrastructure breaks? Has anyone carried out a study to compare the cost benefits of replacing outmoded power infrastructure with more modern, reliable kit? Even if the delays don't add up to the TOC paying consumers "delay repay" compensation, those same TOCs trouser delay payments direct from Network Rail. So Network Rail i.e. the taxpayer, foots the bill anyway.

I'm a taxpayer as well as a customer. I'd be happy for the Government to spend the £billions they're going to flush down the toilet of HS2 and the Trident missile replacement on improving the journey to/from work for millions of taxpayers.

It's an easy argument to say "can't afford it", until you look at the profligate and uncontrolled way our political masters already spend the tax income. Carillion anyone?

 

[NSEFAN]

Hmm, so Network Rail at fault. It always astounds me that so much of the network in key places still relies on such an archaic method of delivering traction current. The DC/AC changeover points in the Core are an inbuilt weakness that could have been designed out whilst all the other Thameslink work has been going on.
Surely it would make more sense to extend the current changeover further south to Elephant or London Bridge, where at least if things go wrong, there are more tracks for diversion purposes. This makes even more sense given that the most recent stock is all dual voltage capable anyway.

Given how late and how much more expensive Thameslink 2000 has been, I don't think we need any more last-minute changes to the plan, thank you.

 

[Abpj17]

Yeah. I accept infrastructure faults can happen.

But the way it was then handled was dire.

Box Photter - I was travelling about 9, so three hours after your experience...the mass confusion was still happening

The previous franchise (perhaps my memory is going!) seemed to just be better at dealing with issues. Move to turnaround at St P and Blackfriars and tell customers (and customer facing staff!!) that's the plan.

 

[The Box Photter]

Yeah. I accept infrastructure faults can happen.

But the way it was then handled was dire.

Box Photter - I was travelling about 9, so three hours after your experience...the mass confusion was still happening

The previous franchise (perhaps my memory is going!) seemed to just be better at dealing with issues. Move to turnaround at St P and Blackfriars and tell customers (and customer facing staff!!) that's the plan.

First Capital Connect weren't called "Worst Capital Connect" by users for no good reason. They were bad, painted everything purple and "refreshed" the class 319s in the same way as you roll a turd in glitter. Their customer service was awful and their driver retention was just as bad, hence many months of cancelled services because of lack of train crew.

Unfortunately, the whole concept of the current incarnation of Thameslink looks brilliant on paper, greater stock utilisation, driver only operation, ATO and tube-train-like frequencies between St Pancras and Blackfriars. In the real world, they've forgotten that at the outside ends of the network, Bedford, Brighton, Littlehampton, Peterborough, Cambridge etc, passengers aren't using the trains as a tube type service. For them, it's a medium-distance interurban railway. Their journeys are 1 hour plus, not 15 minutes as an alternative to the Northern or Victoria Lines. If all you want to do is get from St Pancras to Farringdon or City Thameslink, any train will do, it doesn't matter if it has come from Bedford or Cambridge and they don't care if it's destination is Littlehampton or Maidstone. Based on the current plans though, for my journey home from Blackfriars to Flitwick I will have fewer trains to go for, because some of the paths through the Core have been given over to Cambridge/Peterborough trains. If my train is cancelled, I can't just hop on the next one now, because in all probability it won't be going anywhere near where I live.

They talk about more choice and greater flexibility, but in reality there will be less flexibility and potentially a longer delay when the train I need to get home has broken down at Littlehampton or somewhere in Kent. It's ludicrous that customers wanting to travel to destinations 40 miles north of London can be seriously delayed because of problems 70+ miles away on the south coast. I'm sure passengers who currently stroll along the platform at Kings Cross before choosing a seat on an empty train for their journey to Cambridge in the evening will be overjoyed at having the "greater choice" of joining the huddled masses in the Stygian gloom of St Pancras Low Level before fighting to get on a train that's already full of passengers from the land of three rails.

I fully expect in the first few weeks to be asked by a confused passenger as we speed through Mill Hill Broadway, "When does this train get to Finsbury Park mate?". How I'll laugh when I explain that they're on a journey into the unknown where the first stop is St Albans!

The service overall was more reliable and pleasant to use when it was split in two whilst they burrowed beneath St Pancras and built the dungeon down there.

 

[Abpj17]

I'm Leagrave so similar suffering with frequency as Flitwick. Marginally less bad as I can catch infrequent EMT's out of hours in the event of major meltdowns and within cheap taxi distance of Luton unlike Flitwick.

The service was certainly more reliable when it was cut in two for the year. I hated that I had to get the Northern line tho! From Bank that's a fairly traumatic experience.

 

[Kite159]

I wondered why I saw a 700 pottering around the Clapham Junction area around 16:05

 

[The Box Photter]

I'm Leagrave so similar suffering with frequency as Flitwick. Marginally less bad as I can catch infrequent EMT's out of hours in the event of major meltdowns and within cheap taxi distance of Luton unlike Flitwick.

The service was certainly more reliable when it was cut in two for the year. I hated that I had to get the Northern line tho! From Bank that's a fairly traumatic experience.

True, the Northern Line in the rush hour isn't for the faint-hearted, or the claustrophobic! I wonder how long it will take for services through the Core to start looking and feeling like the Northern Line?