Thameslink double charging keycard holder

[infobleep]

KeyGo doesn't deal in period return fares, it would be singles instead.

The question remains of exactly when the KeyGo day starts and ends. My guess would be that it changes over at 04.30, but I'm not about to set out for a journey in the small hours to find out!
However, the lesson from this is that KeyGo is not suitable for all situations, and this thread highlights one of them.

I would class this as an undocumented system feature.

A behaviour that occurs but isn't officially documented anywhere for users to read about.

 

[Taunton]

So what does the time apply to? Departure? Arrival? Either? And what is done with those travelling across the time boundary?

I will be very happy to give them a computer logic statement that embraces this. It's about 6 or 8 lines in an SQL IF statement.

 

[21C101]

So what does the time apply to? Departure? Arrival? Either? And what is done with those travelling across the time boundary?

I will be very happy to give them a computer logic statement that embraces this. It's about 6 or 8 lines in an SQL IF statement.

It gets to 04.30, assumes you forgot to tap out so inserts an autofill tap out at 04.29 /04.30 at the station you get off.

Then when you arrive and tap out at 04.50ish it accuses you of tapping out without tapping in and debits you a £50 penalty fare.

Aint life grand.

It gets to 04.30, assumes you forgot to tap out so inserts an autofill tap out at 04.29 /04.30 at the station you get off.

Then when you arrive and tap out at 04.50ish it accuses you of tapping out without tapping in and debits you a £50 penalty fare.

Aint life grand.

(autofill assumes you get off at the place you normally tap out after tapping in in London.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

It's almost a week now since @21C101 first posted. Have the appropriate refund(s) now been made / the penalty charge(s) been reversed?

 

[swt_passenger]

It's almost a week now since @21C101 first posted. Have the appropriate refund(s) now been made / the penalty charge(s) been reversed?

Sorted out on Monday, was mentioned in post #9

 

[Mcr Warrior]

It's almost a week now since @21C101 first posted. Have the appropriate refund(s) now been made / the penalty charge(s) been reversed?

Sorted out on Monday, was mentioned in post #9

Noted. Thanks. That's something. But seemingly no re-assurance that this potentially won't ever happen again.

 

[paul1609]

I was quite surprised to get the email about the weekly capping. The impression I got primarily on the southcoast was that development of the key had been overtaken with e and s tickets and that the key would be quietly dropped. Certainly there seems to have been no futher expansion of the Key go product to the whole GTR network (in my case Portsmouth and Ashford) which i was assured was imminent about 5 years ago.

 

[Haywain]

Noted. Thanks. That's something. But seemingly no re-assurance that this potentially won't ever happen again.

On the contrary, it's quite clear that in the same circumstances the same thing would happen. Which is why KeyGo is not ideal for every use case.

 

[21C101]

It's almost a week now since @21C101 first posted. Have the appropriate refund(s) now been made / the penalty charge(s) been reversed?

Yes.

Yes.

Already mentioned upthread.

 

[21C101]

Update here.

(Issue was nightshift worker travelling home, tapping in at ~3.30AM being auto tapped out at 4.30 AM then when he actually tapped out on arrival at ~5AM being charged £50 penalty fare for tapping out without tapping in.


Said person now driving mostly but still getting this issue when he does use train and having to phone to get penalty fare taken off his keycard.

Some people on helpline more helpful/knowledgable than others.

One advised him to buy a paper return ticket instead. Train left ~3.30 and after 4.30 onboard TTI checked ticket and said it wasnt valid after 4.30 AM (backed down after being showed evidence of keycard issues and being advised to buy paper return.

It is utterly appalling and he is resolved not to use the train again for nightwork other than absolute last resort.

Seems that GTR dont give a s**t.

 

[MrJeeves]

One advised him to buy a paper return ticket instead. Train left ~3.30 and after 4.30 onboard TTI checked ticket and said it wasnt valid after 4.30 AM (backed down after being showed evidence of keycard issues and being advised to buy paper return.

They are correct, unfortunately. A ticket is only valid until 0429 after the valid to date on the ticket. It is, however, valid from 0000 on the start date of validity!

Some people combine these together by buying a ticket from, say, London (where they work) to Three Bridges (where they live) to get home one night, and then to go back to work after sleeping through the day. You are then left with two "unticketed" journeys either way, though, which is where period (30d) returns may prove helpful to allow an outward journey to London and then a return back at the end of their shift pattern.

Unfortunately, the railway doesn't really cater to night shift workers too well!

 

[Snow1964]

One advised him to buy a paper return ticket instead. Train left ~3.30 and after 4.30 onboard TTI checked ticket and said it wasnt valid after 4.30 AM (backed down after being showed evidence of keycard issues and being advised to buy paper return.

It is utterly appalling and he is resolved not to use the train again for nightwork other than absolute last resort.

Seems that GTR dont give a s**t.

How does a paper day return improve things, surely if the railway is adamant that a day ticket ends at 04:29, then presumably someone finishing journey at 04:50 would get a reject at exit barrier.

The only improvement is barrier wouldn't auto charge £50, although person alongside letting you through might say expired and issue a penalty.

Let's be straight, if going to run trains at operate at 04:30 then need to sort their systems to cope with it. The fact that this was known over 2 years ago and is still not fixed is a serious management and customer service Dept failure.

 

[infobleep]

They are correct, unfortunately. A ticket is only valid until 0429 after the valid to date on the ticket. It is, however, valid from 0000 on the start date of validity!

Some people combine these together by buying a ticket from, say, London (where they work) to Three Bridges (where they live) to get home one night, and then to go back to work after sleeping through the day. You are then left with two "unticketed" journeys either way, though, which is where period (30d) returns may prove helpful to allow an outward journey to London and then a return back at the end of their shift pattern.

Unfortunately, the railway doesn't really cater to night shift workers too well!

So are staff advising someone to break the law or does the communication from them mean it's OK to do this, even though it otherwise wouldn't be?

 

[MrJeeves]

So are staff advising someone to break the law or does the communication from them mean it's OK to do this, even though it otherwise wouldn't be?

I certainly wouldn't recommend doing it a second time, but staff appropriately showed "discretion" (yes, they had authority to travel, but that doesn't stop a report being made, just any results from it negatively affecting the passenger) in the first instance.

 

[21C101]

I certainly wouldn't recommend doing it a second time, but staff appropriately showed "discretion" (yes, they had authority to travel, but that doesn't stop a report being made, just any results from it negatively affecting the passenger) in the first instance.

Thanks for this information.

It makes sense that starting a return journey after 04.30 is not allowed, but to have the ticket validity expire half way through the journey is absurd, does that mean if you are due to arrive at 04.25 but the train is running 10 mins late you could get penalty fared?

It is quite appalling to do this when they run an hourly service all night.

It is also quite appalling that someone tapping in with a Keycard at 03.30 gets auto tapped out at 04.30 then fined £50 when they tap out at 04.50 for allegedly tapping out without tapping in.

They have refunded the £50 each time (sometimes after a lot of hassle from an poorly trained person on the helpline) but it is no fun having to waste time every morning doing this.

The result is that they avoid using rail like the plague whenever possible. What a self destructive shambles it has become.

 

[talldave]

It is also quite appalling that someone tapping in with a Keycard at 03.30 gets auto tapped out at 04.30 then fined £50 when they tap out at 04.50 for allegedly tapping out without tapping in.

It might be worth raising this point with Trading Standards, as the product is clearly not fit for purpose.