Thameslink Horsham Up Service calls at New Cross Gate removed

[hozza94]

Since the timetable change this week, some Horsham services are transferred from Southern to Thameslink. It appears that the original New Cross Gate call on the Up London Bridge service has been removed, which wasn't advertised as I boarded the service at East Croydon this week with the service advertised to call at both Norwood Junction and New Cross Gate, just to be told the train would not call at New Cross Gate.

Does anyone know why is this happening and would it remain like this throughout the whole timetable period (ie losing majority of NXG Fast calls )

 

[RUFJAN15]

Since the timetable change this week, some Horsham services are transferred from Southern to Thameslink. It appears that the original New Cross Gate call on the Up London Bridge service has been removed, which wasn't advertised as I boarded the service at East Croydon this week with the service advertised to call at both Norwood Junction and New Cross Gate, just to be told the train would not call at New Cross Gate.

Does anyone know why is this happening and would it remain like this throughout the whole timetable period (ie losing majority of NXG Fast calls )

I don't have an answer, however I was reviewing the first week of Thameslink (TL) performance on the Horsham route this morning and noticed that the TL services were subject to a short notice timetable variation (marked VAR on RTT) on Thursday/Friday. The result appeared to be just that they were scheduled into London Bridge 3min earlier. Having seen your post, I have looked back and can now see that up trains made the New Cross Gate stop from Mon-Wed but that it was removed from the timetable on Thu/Fri.

As these services are now operated by Class 700 units (effective from last Monday), I'm guessing that someone has noticed an infrastructure problem and hastily withdrawn the stop. As down TL services were still calling, I'm struggling to think of an alternative explanation.

 

[westcoaster]

I don't have an answer, however I was reviewing the first week of Thameslink (TL) performance on the Horsham route this morning and noticed that the TL services were subject to a short notice timetable variation (marked VAR on RTT) on Thursday/Friday. The result appeared to be just that they were scheduled into London Bridge 3min earlier. Having seen your post, I have looked back and can now see that up trains made the New Cross Gate stop from Mon-Wed but that it was removed from the timetable on Thu/Fri.

As these services are now operated by Class 700 units (effective from last Monday), I'm guessing that someone has noticed an infrastructure problem and hastily withdrawn the stop. As down TL services were still calling, I'm struggling to think of an alternative explanation.

Could be the turn around time is to tight for minimum change end times on a 12 car 700.

 

[cle]

Are the NXG platforms 12 car?

I personally think it should be rebuilt - given the Bakerloo may well eventually get there - to have all Thameslink/Southern trains stop there, and relieve London Bridge (Jubilee line).

The East London Line frequency is going up even more in time (another 4tph each way) - and I'd argue to push the New Cross 4tph there too. Make it more of a Vauxhall or Finsbury Park type function. With the Bakerloo, it'd be an even more useful connection. 10 mins to Waterloo or 15-ish to the West End must be as quick as going via London Bridge or Blackfriars.

 

[RUFJAN15]

Could be the turn around time is to tight for minimum change end times on a 12 car 700.

You may have a point there. The turn around time was a bit tight with arrivals at xx.18/xx.48 and departures at xx.27/xx.57; bringing the arrival forward to xx.15/xx.45 gives a more reasonable 12 min.

However, the New Cross Gate calls have been reinstated today with a WTT arrival at London Bridge of xx.15/xx.45 and a GBTT arrival of xx.18/xx.48. Whatever was causing the problem appears to have been resolved.

 

[John1975]

It was a problem with the balise on platform 4.

Platform 4 can only accommdate 8 coaches, but the balise was allowing 9 coaches to open.

 

[hozza94]

Are the NXG platforms 12 car?

Not on the fast, both fast platform only take 8

I personally think it should be rebuilt - given the Bakerloo may well eventually get there - to have all Thameslink/Southern trains stop there, and relieve London Bridge (Jubilee line).

In the Thameslink consultation process, they seem to have eliminated all NXG stops on the fast line, which wouldn't help with the commuter flow to Canary Wharf from South or the East London to Croydon flow (which is the one getting busier due to the low rent cost, and I am one of them). Also it really doesn't help with anyone working beyond East Croydon as apparently there will be barely any trains going to East Croydon during morning peak!

Are they suggesting that all of us should pay the premium of going via London Bridge and putting even more strain on the Canada Water - London Bridge stretch of the Jubilee Line?

 

[Thebaz]

I thought I'd read that the NXG stops were to be removed permanently in the post-2018 timetables? I can only think it must be due to capacity issues - shovelling as many trains as possible through that corridor. If you stop them at NXG you probably lose 2-3 slots, especially during peak hours. It does seem strange that the fast line platforms were only rebuilt and had step-free access added in the last couple of years, only for them to eventually lose a decent service.

If it is about capacity I wonder whether they could instead alternate Norwood Jcn and NXG stops?

 

[cle]

Agreed, it's a shame. It's so busy and diverse these days, you need an orbital/relief stop as well as the traditional termini. Appreciate TL heads into the core, but still.

Maybe they can review when the Bakerloo situation becomes clearer. By then, ELL will be increased too.

Or a simple flighting - 16tph for instance... so first is fast to Croydon, next fast to Norwood, next NXG, next is NXG and Norwood - repeat every 15 mins.

 

[Thebaz]

As these services are now operated by Class 700 units (effective from last Monday), I'm guessing that someone has noticed an infrastructure problem and hastily withdrawn the stop. As down TL services were still calling, I'm struggling to think of an alternative explanation.

Are they? The 1629 from LBG was a 12car 377 tonight and has been every time I've got on it. In fact I've not yet seen a 700 on a Horsham service despite doing the ECR to LBG stretch twice every weekday.

 

[tsr]

Not on the fast, both fast platform only take 8

None of them are. The Slows are the longest and only take 10/377.

 

[hozza94]

Are they? The 1629 from LBG was a 12car 377 tonight and has been every time I've got on it. In fact I've not yet seen a 700 on a Horsham service despite doing the ECR to LBG stretch twice every weekday.

It's a mixed service and now run by both Thameslink and Southern. The 2 that I often get (as they serve NXG!) 0802 from LBG and 1655 from ECR are both TL for a start

 

[RUFJAN15]

Are they? The 1629 from LBG was a 12car 377 tonight and has been every time I've got on it. In fact I've not yet seen a 700 on a Horsham service despite doing the ECR to LBG stretch twice every weekday.

Apologies! I was referring to the services that passed from Southern to Thameslink last week, however I didn't make this clear.

The transfers have been discussed previously in the Class 700 thread, however for the record they are detailed at: https://www.southernrailway.com/travel-information/plan-your-journey/timetables (open 'the following trains transfer operator ...' tab).