Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

[SPADTrap]

And now it seems being accused of being hung over, even though if they thought for more than two seconds they’d realise that is an extremely serious and unlikely occurrence. Unlike most workers, we can’t drink every night after work, however sunny it is or however many World Cup games are on.

Yet the pubs and bars are rammed after the days out in the city. Funny that.

 

[Chrisgr31]

In this case, various northbound Thameslink services aiming for the Midland Mainline (ie. St Albans/Luton/Bedford etc.) were held in the Core due to the incident on the MML. However, these stationary or slow moving trains were (bar one) on the westernmost of the two lines.

While they were being held, or terminated and moved out of the way, other Thameslink services which run via the East Coast Mainline (ie. Peterborough/Cambridge etc.) were sent on the adjacent line in the same direction, in order to overtake the trains which were being held.

The incident on the MML was such that all lines through the incident site were blocked for some time, so there were very few southbound trains which needed to be held for the northbound trains to run on both lines.

The signalling system is fully equipped to route trains onto either line through the Core section within Central London, and has been for years.

I saw a tweet earlier suggesting that a northbound and southbound service came face to face due to this (not hitting each other) is this true?

 

[BRX]

The signalling system is fully equipped to route trains onto either line through the Core section within Central London, and has been for years.

Didn't know that - thanks for the explanation.

 

[gingerheid]

Yet the pubs and bars are rammed after the days out in the city. Funny that.

Maybe some of the people in them aren't train drivers?

 

[bramling]

Looks like they got 1708 Brighton- Cambridge past a couple of MML services so clearly the plan works.

Of course one can’t help but remember that the core is not operating at anything near it’s planned capacity. Will the plan work with 48tph (both roads)?! Not that I think we are ever going to see that being achieved.

 

[bramling]

My wife - texted earlier no trains at SP , fatality and asked whether she should go via Watford or Hatfield (how I laughed,.....)

She got a train in the end.

And so ends another pretty horrific day on ShamblesLink/. Again massive amounts of delay transmitted through the core, on top of all the cancellations. Some strange signalling decisions being made on the GN tonight too, adding quite a bit of further delay to some services for no obvious reason - although of course there could be a non-obvious reason for getting several fast trains stuck behind slows. Are the signallers getting overwhelmed by all this messing around?

 

[talldave]

The rear is declassified on all 700s all day and the front during the peak. On 365s and 387s first class is declassified in the peaks and in operation off peak. This continues into the new timetable.

There's no first class on Luton - Rainham services at all.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

There's no first class on Luton - Rainham services at all.

hang on... there's been a number of posts about some services having 1st class and others not... Am I given to understand that of the trains are fitted out with 1st compartments whilst others are all 2nd?...

 

[bramling]

hang on... there's been a number of posts about some services having 1st class and others not... Am I given to understand that of the trains are fitted out with 1st compartments whilst others are all 2nd?...

No, all the undesiro sh***ies have first at both ends, however on both GN and TL services the section at the rear is declassified. Certain services on the TL side are not booked to convey first, dating back to 319 days, in which case both ends are declassified.

All first applies on 365s and 387s apart from the current temporary easement during peak times, which also applies to the undesiros.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

No, all the undesiro sh***ies have first at both ends, however on both GN and TL services the section at the rear is declassified. Certain services on the TL side are not booked to convey first, dating back to 319 days, in which case both ends are declassified.

All first applies on 365s and 387s apart from the current temporary easement during peak times, which also applies to the undesiros.

so do they put signs on the windows saying "this is not First Class"? what would happen if a passenger was challenged by an RPI and claimed "I was told there's no first class on this route"?

 

[bramling]

so do they put signs on the windows saying "this is not First Class"? what would happen if a passenger was challenged by an RPI and claimed "I was told there's no first class on this route"?

I think there’s more chance of ThameSink/ getting 100% right time performance for a day than encountering a RPI at the moment.

However the declassification is mentioned on the PIS in the relevant sections providing the driver has set it up correctly. However, the message doesn’t appear until some time after leaving a station. Otherwise it’s on a need-to-know basis, which is probably just as well otherwise everyone would pile into it I suppose. At times it also doubles up as a driver messroom on certain services.

 

[mmh]

so do they put signs on the windows saying "this is not First Class"?

No. You either know or you don't. Thameslink's long served routes with no first class fares with trains with first class, e.g. the Sutton loop. Likewise Southern with 377s serving standard class only routes. The only benefit is the first class sections are, sometimes - not always, quieter. There's no comfort advantage to first class on a 377 and little on a 700 - first class on a 700 is what would be considered a poor standard class on most trains.

what would happen if a passenger was challenged by an RPI and claimed "I was told there's no first class on this route"?

Thameslink have been very open that the rear first class is never actually first class. A train on an end-to-end route with no first class fares is standard class throughout regardless of what stock turns up. It's a bit of a hypothetical question at the moment I suspect, it'll be a fair while before GTR have the nerve to send RPIs on a Thameslink train, let alone to enforce first class.

 

[contractor]

Ok, so as a passenger, if they don't announce 1st class declassification, how would I know to reclaim?

I'm specifically talking about routes booked with first, not routes like Luton/rainham etc.

 

[mrmatt]

I think there’s more chance of ThameSink/ getting 100% right time performance for a day than encountering a RPI at the moment.

There was a revenue block at Flitwick station yesterday morning which I thought was a bit brave

 

[benk1342]

Has anyone seen a RPI on a train since this shambles started?

There was one on the 0738 WGC-Moorgate service this morning. I was shocked.

 

[transmanche]

The rear is declassified on all 700s all day and the front during the peak. On 365s and 387s first class is declassified in the peaks and in operation off peak. This continues into the new timetable.

Can you provide evidence for this?

Off peak declassification is well known and documented, but I don't recall seeing anything about 365/387 off peak.

@jon0844 is saying that first class on 365s and 387s is not declassified off-peak.

 

[transmanche]

Ok, so as a passenger, if they don't announce 1st class declassification, how would I know to reclaim?

I'm specifically talking about routes booked with first, not routes like Luton/rainham etc.

If you are talking about the first class being currently declassified on all Thameslink/Great Northern trains during the peaks, then there are posters across the network advising about this, @dlj83 posted an example of a poster in post #3086.

If you are talking about first class being declassified in the rear section of 700s, then the train's electronic displays in that section inform you that it's declassified. You won't get to reclaim anything though, as the first class section at the front of the train would not normally be declassified.

If you are talking about 'standard class only' routes where stock with first class accommodation turns up, that's indicated in the timetable. 700s may or may not indicate this on their electronic displays. Again, there's nothing to reclaim as those services are not advertised as having first class.

 

[SPADTrap]

Ok, so as a passenger, if they don't announce 1st class declassification, how would I know to reclaim?

I'm specifically talking about routes booked with first, not routes like Luton/rainham etc.

I saw it on the news, posters, the newspapers, twitter, station screens and a odd driver announcement. It's pretty out there.

 

[Bishopstone]

Plenty of scathing commentary on here re. GTR and DFT’s failings, and calls for senior heads to roll. And rightly so.

But really, after another peak crippled by their infrastructure failures, I trust cuddly, publicly-owned Network Rail won’t continue to get the benefit of the doubt regarding their competence.

 

[philjo]

The 0540 from Kings Lynn is supposed to call additionally at Letchworth and Stevenage during the interim timetable. It was on the screens as running 4 minutes late. The train turned up but went through without stopping. It was only 4 coaches this morning - normally 12.
So everyone had to get onto the 2x365 service that starts from Baldock at 0712. This was full by Stevenage so we left over 50 people behind on the platform at Welwyn North. Also an additional call at WGC.

 

[87015]

Plenty of scathing commentary on here re. GTR and DFT’s failings, and calls for senior heads to roll. And rightly so.

But really, after another peak crippled by their infrastructure failures, I trust cuddly, publicly-owned Network Rail won’t continue to get the benefit of the doubt regarding their competence.

Infrastructure failures are basically unavoidable. GTRs continuing incompetence and disinterest in sorting it out isn’t. Massive difference.

 

[Failed Unit]

Infrastructure failures are basically unavoidable. GTRs continuing incompetence and disinterest in sorting it out isn’t. Massive difference.

Agree.

Likewise compare to recent problems. Today Network Rail - GTR quickly stating this on all announcements.

Monday. GTR. They said nothing other than “we are running an amended timetable with short notice alterations”. But couldn’t manage basic communication such as put cancelled on trains where the inbound working clearly hadn’t made it in.

Today is an unfortunate incident which we will have many of them. GTRs incompetence has gone on for years. Quick to throw mud. Very slow to admit they are part of the problem.

 

[HH]

Infrastructure failures are basically unavoidable.

Do you really believe that? If so, I have a nice hat for you.

 

[87015]

If it was the other way round and GTR were in charge of infrastructure, presumably they’d have the same attitude as to the timetable and go “it doesn’t work but we’ll just leave it to fail further for two months before we try to do anything”

Do you really believe that? If so, I have a nice hat for you.

They'll always happen though regardless of who’s in charge of infrastructure.

 

[Failed Unit]

If it was the other way round and GTR were in charge of infrastructure, presumably they’d have the same attitude as to the timetable and go “it doesn’t work but we’ll just leave it to fail further for two months before we try to do anything”

They'll always happen though regardless of who’s in charge of infrastructure.

Actually if GTR were owners of the infrastructure they would be blaming the power supply company.

 

[Geogregor]

Pretty much correct...however not all KX drivers sign 700s.
Personally dont see much changing mid July...there won't be any more drivers that sign the entire route as route learning is still suspended.

So, the drivers are not currently being trained? How are they ever going to improve the service without more drivers?

 

[Class 466]

Good to see that (once again) the service this weekend is absolutely abysmal - No service on the Sutton Loop for the fourth or fifth weekend in a row. With a major Pride event in London it will be interesting to see how badly overcrowded these trains are.

2tph Brighton - Bedford
2tph Blackfriars - Bedford
1tph Rainham - Dartford
2tph Sevenoaks - Blackfriars
2tph London Bridge - Horsham

On Sunday (again) the BFR - BDM stopper follows 3 minutes behind the TBD - BDM leaving 27 mins to the next train.

The weekend service isn't set to get better with this new timetable either so I hope the DFT aren't just looking at weekday chaos.

 

[al78]

Yet the pubs and bars are rammed after the days out in the city. Funny that.

I don't know what you are trying to argue against. He claims most workers can drink in the evening after work, although in his profession he can't. The fact that pubs and clubs are rammed full at the end of the day is consistent with this claim.

 

[al78]

There is one good thing from my perspective I have just noticed about the timetable change. There are now hourly evening services direct from Dorking to Horsham up until about 23:30. Previously there was one service roughly around 20:15 then nothing until 23:30. For me that makes an evening out in Dorking feasible without either having to drive or cycle down the A24 race track to get home. I had wondered in the past why there weren't more evening services between Dorking and Horsham.

 

[SPADTrap]

I don't know what you are trying to argue against. He claims most workers can drink in the evening after work, although in his profession he can't. The fact that pubs and clubs are rammed full at the end of the day is consistent with this claim.

Which is what I was saying.