THAMESLINK services to Kent and Sussex routes 2018

Discussion in 'Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables' started by Minstral25, 15 Jun 2016.

  1. cle

    cle Established Member

    Messages:
    1,307
    Joined:
    17 Nov 2010
    There is some logic to your maths, but if you travel near to the front then cross-platform applies to 100% of the Up trains. Even if not, it's a quicker transfer than most train to tube ones.

    And headed Down, agreed. But would doubled frequencies not mitigate some of this time in terms of netting out over the course of a travelling week. Mornings yes you leave in time for a specific train, but evenings you may not - or may find yourself procrastinating at your desk until it's time for the next train. At a higher frequency, you might gain back more personal time.
     
  2. Class377/5

    Class377/5 Established Member

    Messages:
    5,594
    Joined:
    19 Jun 2010
    Depends on if you count walking around a platform as cross platform, I don't. So it's 50% cross platform on the up.

    Also you fail to note that not everyone can can be in front carriage, even if they wanted to. And running through the Core will be at the same frequencis as it with the additional used to go to Blackfriars used to balance the load.

    Still no-one has given a decent reason why the Sutton services should terminate that stands up. NR path crossing excuse didn't stand up hence why it was scrapped. And make no excuse that we run more trains today crossing without issue so it is proven wrong.
     
  3. BRX

    BRX Member

    Messages:
    876
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2008
    As someone who lives on the Wimbledon Loop - the real problem is the terrible reliability which surely could only be improved by making the loop trains self-contained. At the moment things going wrong north of London seem to completely mess up services. And it only takes a couple of consecutive trains to be cancelled and some delayed ones to leave you with an hour gap between trains and no easy alternative route. This happens all the time.

    I do like the fact that I can get a train direct to Farringdon or St Pancras, when everything's working. But I'd happily sacrifice that for an improvement in reliability because the way things are at the moment, if you need to get somewhere by a certain time you really have to factor in an extra 45 minutes or so just to cover yourself for the likelihood of your train being cancelled or delayed. I'd rather take the hit of a 10 minute transfer at Blackfriars and as places to wait for a train go - it's got one of the best views from the platform anywhere in the UK.
     
  4. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

    Messages:
    15,181
    Joined:
    7 Apr 2010
    Presumably people who understood the advantages to workings to/from the bays, such as reliability and increased frequency, didn't make enough noise during the consultation, and were drowned out by those who swayed the DfT the other way.

    (Which has to be fair been discussed many times before, so probably unwise to start again now...)
     
  5. BRX

    BRX Member

    Messages:
    876
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2008
    I tried to make the point to the people running the campaign but they didn't seem interested, at least not the chap I talked to.
     
  6. cle

    cle Established Member

    Messages:
    1,307
    Joined:
    17 Nov 2010
    Well I don't think walking to the front and around a train is so awful - all level after all. But clearly there is a self-fulfilling message and position to reinforce on the issue.

    I think the Wimbledon loop should terminate at Blackfriars, and possibly even then not run as a loop - longer time and slight crayoning but 4tph shuttling to Wimbledon and then 4tph direct to Sutton and beyond via Hackbridge.

    Wimbledon to Sutton becoming Tramlink, especially with CR2 - and feeding into that.
     
  7. southern442

    southern442 Established Member

    Messages:
    1,455
    Joined:
    20 May 2013
    Location:
    Surrey
    That's rather inconvenient for those that live on or around the loop.
     
  8. cle

    cle Established Member

    Messages:
    1,307
    Joined:
    17 Nov 2010
    It'd be close to CR2 stations as is - and wouldn't say 6-12tph trams be better than the current 2, going up to 4tph - to get them to Wimbledon?
     
  9. phil281

    phil281 Member

    Messages:
    170
    Joined:
    9 Mar 2011
    I've always thought the Wimbledon loop services should go to London Bridge via Peckham Rye. Then the Beckenham Junction/West Croydon terminators be turned into thameslink services. Would build in more durability to the thameslink service. I guess the key obstacle would be tulse hill and paths through there.
     
  10. 387star

    387star Established Member

    Messages:
    4,459
    Joined:
    16 Nov 2009
    Why do Thames link no longer serve Rochester and Ashford as they used to?

    Why are services shared with southeastern drivers?
     
  11. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

    Messages:
    4,963
    Joined:
    26 Jan 2009
    Location:
    Central Belt
    The service was created when Blackfriars was getting rebuilt. The services originally terminated there. When the bays were removed they needed to do something with them so they sent them to Kentish Town. They have got intergrated in ever since.

    They were Southeastern services - hence why they drive them.
     
  12. Class377/5

    Class377/5 Established Member

    Messages:
    5,594
    Joined:
    19 Jun 2010
    Technically Thameslink never served either. The service 'terminated' for FCC/Thameslink and became a Southeastern service.

    However the service was only temporary arrangement due to the bays at Blackfriars being closed. It survived on basis of the stock diagrams but has now ended.

    Services are shared with SE drivers due to the said closure of Blackfriars bays and FCC/Thameslink drivers driving the former SE services into Kent meaning some SE drivers were displaced and then worked parts of the FCC/TL services.

    Long term things are supposed to change with drivers transferring. Oh And Ashford will become a proper Thameslink destination in 2018 with class 700s serving the station as a peak only extension of the Maidstone east services (also calling at Bearstead).
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Are we answering everything at the same time tonight? :lol:
     
  13. 387star

    387star Established Member

    Messages:
    4,459
    Joined:
    16 Nov 2009
  14. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

    Messages:
    4,963
    Joined:
    26 Jan 2009
    Location:
    Central Belt
  15. bionic

    bionic Member

    Messages:
    20
    Joined:
    8 Nov 2013
    The current plans are that SE drivers will no longer be driving Thameslink routes after May 2018. GTR have recruited a load of new drivers who will be taking the work over once the GTR depot at Orpington opens in 2018 along with (presumably) some displaced Blackfriars drivers who opt to move there. Orpington SE depot is expected to shrink as a result as it currently has the best part of twenty Thameslink diagrams a day during the week.
     
  16. Minstral25

    Minstral25 Established Member

    Messages:
    1,064
    Joined:
    10 Sep 2009
    When does the next stage of the consultations start?

    Will we get any information before then as to what people have said in their responses?
     
  17. Class377/5

    Class377/5 Established Member

    Messages:
    5,594
    Joined:
    19 Jun 2010
    I believe its in a couple of months. Not sure if we are getting feedback to far ahead of the consultation.
     
  18. Minstral25

    Minstral25 Established Member

    Messages:
    1,064
    Joined:
    10 Sep 2009
    Cheers

    I guess not - would be interesting to find out what has been responded though.
     
  19. Class377/5

    Class377/5 Established Member

    Messages:
    5,594
    Joined:
    19 Jun 2010
    I think there will be some used to re-enforce points being made.
     
  20. Minstral25

    Minstral25 Established Member

    Messages:
    1,064
    Joined:
    10 Sep 2009
    I have been looking at proposed services from Thameslink down the Brighton and Redhill main lines and I believe the current proposed splits of services to Brighton & Gatwick/Horsham will make the timetable very odd.

    What I mean is that the splits are half-hourly Bedford to Brighton, Cambridge to Brighton, Bedford to Gatwick, Peterborough to Horsham - the latter two being via Redhill.

    I'd expect the Bedford to the Core service to run every 15 minutes to get an even 4 per hour north of the core, so then I expect the East Coast trains (PBO) & (CBG) to slot in exactly evenly between so that the service from London Bridge to East Croydon is every 7.5 minutes, which again makes sense to spread loads.

    So arriving at London Bridge from the core will be every 30 minutes. BDM, CBG, BDM, PBO and repeat constantly.

    Trouble is with current planned pairs departing south these will be Gatwick via Redhill, Horsham via Redhill, Brighton, Brighton. That means from London Bridge the via Redhill service will be 7.5 minutes then 22.5 minutes and the Brighton services the same.

    This is a pretty illogical pattern and ruins any attempt at turn up and go.

    To me it would make sense to run the pairs as follows: -

    1x Bedford to Brighton
    1x Peterborough to Gatwick
    1x Bedford to Brighton
    1x Cambridge to Horsham

    and thus make the service on the Brighton and Redhill Main Lines even at every 15 minutes
     

Share This Page