The age potential of a bus?

[Jordan Adam]

Maybe in the days when the the ALX400 was new i’d have seen that, in this case ive never driven one thats been newer than say 12 years old, stagecoach, dunfermline had two 55 plate versions with the ISC 8.3 engine which felt breathless with no torque uphill or even on the flat, id probably put that down to poor engineering on stage’s part.

Voith gearboxes in decker or older single has never been my bug bear, but it certainly is when there fitted to streetlites or 200 mmcs, incredibly jerky and gear hunting like mad, the latest ZF ecolifes have became the far superior modern trans

VU06s up here are proper monsters. Can easily overtake most things uphill on the A90 leaving Aberdeen. They sit at 60MPH at ease (They can actually go past 60... But anyway), very little rattles and at speed they sit on the road well with no swaying about or anything.

I had 18446 at the start of the month on a special shuttle route that involved going along the Aberdeen back road. Which is a narrow rural road, it handled it with no issue at all.

 

[Neil Urquhart]

Buses are designed for a much more intensive inspection/maintenance regime than a private car. Given the correct level of maintenance then they should run indefinitely. One of the biggest differences with buses as opposed to lighter vehicles is corrosion. Most buses have alloy bodywork, which doesn't rust (it can corrode in other ways) and a chassis made from seriously thick steel. The best examples of this appear to Alexander bodies which, in general, from the 1970s onwards don't corrode extensively. I was recently involved in taking the panels of an 'S' reg Volvo Ailsa which had a hard life with the Scottish Bus Group and then with First. Other than some rust around the wheel arches there were no major corrosion issues. The exceptions appear to be some later ECW bodies, anything made by MCW and certain Leyland products such as the Lynx (although the all-steel National had rather good corrosion protection). But coaches are another matter, which is why so few Duple Dominants or Plaxton Supremes survive.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

VU06s up here are proper monsters. Can easily overtake most things uphill on the A90 leaving Aberdeen. They sit at 60MPH at ease (They can actually go past 60... But anyway), very little rattles and at speed they sit on the road well with no swaying about or anything.

I had 18446 at the start of the month on a special shuttle route that involved going along the Aberdeen back road. Which is a narrow rural road, it handled it with no issue at all.

Remember them when new for the Chippenham to Swindon service. Very decent machines.

Buses are designed for a much more intensive inspection/maintenance regime than a private car. Given the correct level of maintenance then they should run indefinitely. One of the biggest differences with buses as opposed to lighter vehicles is corrosion. Most buses have alloy bodywork, which doesn't rust (it can corrode in other ways) and a chassis made from seriously thick steel. The best examples of this appear to Alexander bodies which, in general, from the 1970s onwards don't corrode extensively. I was recently involved in taking the panels of an 'S' reg Volvo Ailsa which had a hard life with the Scottish Bus Group and then with First. Other than some rust around the wheel arches there were no major corrosion issues. The exceptions appear to be some later ECW bodies, anything made by MCW and certain Leyland products such as the Lynx (although the all-steel National had rather good corrosion protection). But coaches are another matter, which is why so few Duple Dominants or Plaxton Supremes survive.

They can obviously run and run though as with many things in this world, there are the requirements to look after and maintain them! Also, there is always the odd design that clearly has its flaws....

The VR with ECW body did have its weaknesses though clearly many managed more than 20 years. The MCW Metrobus did and indeed, West Mids Travel and Marshalls had a very extensive programme to refurb the vehicles and tackle some of those inherent problems especially around the back end.

First have recently refurbished some of their ALX400 bodied B7TLs in Bristol. Already decent machines though dating from 2001-3, they'll easily hit the 20 year mark (though not in Bristol).

 

[Jordan Adam]

Buses are designed for a much more intensive inspection/maintenance regime than a private car. Given the correct level of maintenance then they should run indefinitely. One of the biggest differences with buses as opposed to lighter vehicles is corrosion. Most buses have alloy bodywork, which doesn't rust (it can corrode in other ways) and a chassis made from seriously thick steel. The best examples of this appear to Alexander bodies which, in general, from the 1970s onwards don't corrode extensively. I was recently involved in taking the panels of an 'S' reg Volvo Ailsa which had a hard life with the Scottish Bus Group and then with First. Other than some rust around the wheel arches there were no major corrosion issues. The exceptions appear to be some later ECW bodies, anything made by MCW and certain Leyland products such as the Lynx (although the all-steel National had rather good corrosion protection). But coaches are another matter, which is why so few Duple Dominants or Plaxton Supremes survive.

Not forgetting early Volvo Olympians! Some of them you could touch and they'd rust in your hand!

 

[route101]

Drove first glaasgows tridents on the 88’s about 8/9 years ago and comparing them to lothians long wheel base versions it was like night and day, donkey and stallion, black and white!

In the summer overheating was an issue, not so much I found with lothians

Before the invasion from London , Cumbernuald had the t reg tridents , very little seating downstairs .

 

[Neil Urquhart]

Not forgetting early Volvo Olympians! Some of them you could touch and they'd rust in your hand!

No actual experience of Volvo Olympians, but I did get a chance to get underneath a preserved example and was somewhat taken aback by the amount of welding it was receiving to the chassis. Atlanteans never seem to need that level of work (at least not the 3 that I'm involved with).

 

[Jordan Adam]

No actual experience of Volvo Olympians, but I did get a chance to get underneath a preserved example and was somewhat taken aback by the amount of welding it was receiving to the chassis. Atlanteans never seem to need that level of work (at least not the 3 that I'm involved with).

I believe with many of the early Volvo Olympians they used alternative sources for the metal on the chassis to speed up the production process, so the quality was not up to par. In general the early Volvo Olympians were just rushed out the factory so they could complete the outstanding orders Leyland had. This is what caused the issues further down the line. It does seem to be a bit of a hit or miss case when it comes to them though!

I'm wondering how the buses on the market just now with their much longer wheelbases will cope in 10 or so years time!

 

[Eyersey468]

Our Alexander bodied Olympians from 1995 suffered severe chassis corrosion but the Northern Counties ones weren't as bad. I believe it was partly due to them spending quite a bit of time near the coast

 

[Jordan Adam]

Our Alexander bodied Olympians from 1995 suffered severe chassis corrosion but the Northern Counties ones weren't as bad. I believe it was partly due to them spending quite a bit of time near the coast

What plate were the Northern Counties ones?

 

[Eyersey468]

What plate were the Northern Counties ones?

N, P and S reg. We also had H, J and K reg Northern Counties bodied Leyland Olympians. The N reg ones were Palatine 2s and were new at the same time as the Alexander ones. Some of the best double deckers I've driven were the Gardner engine Leylands, superb buses that just kept going. Sadly we had to get rid due to DDA

 

[MotCO]

I'm wondering how the buses on the market just now with their much longer wheelbases will cope in 10 or so years time!

The current buses I have concerns about are the B5LH's (and maybe B5Ls?) with their short wheelbase and very long rear overhang supporting a heavy lump of metal at the very back. I can see chassis problems and bent bodies in the not too distant future.

 

[Jordan Adam]

N, P and S reg. We also had H, J and K reg Northern Counties bodied Leyland Olympians. The N reg ones were Palatine 2s and were new at the same time as the Alexander ones. Some of the best double deckers I've driven were the Gardner engine Leylands, superb buses that just kept going. Sadly we had to get rid due to DDA

With the P & S reg ones that sort of explains why they were fine. It was the early ones around K & L reg which were the worst for corrosion. Although as i say it seems very hit and miss regarding what ones are and are not affected!

Grampian here had 3 batches of Olympians (Alexander RH).

A-FSA & B-MSO (Gardener & Voith ), both these batches were identical and buckets... Most topped out at 27MPH in their later years and they rattled and vibrated like mad on idle. All that being said they were bomb proof, testament of that is the fact some of the better members of the A reg batch managed almost 30 years service with Grampian and then in to FirstGroup. Although there was a few members in this batch which were pretty good and sounded amazing.

Then there was the E-DRS batch (Cummins & ZF Ecomat), the acceleration on these was just unbelievable, they could easily outrun most cars from a standstill up to 20MPH. They also had the much more attractive face lifted front end and were long wheelbase.

Stagecoach have had a mix of Olympians, Too much to cover. But i can recall the L-JSA batch were awful for corrosion.

Of the Grampian Olympians both 121 (B121MSO) & 131 (E131DRS) have been saved by Aberdeen & District Transport Preservation Trust at Alford, currently only 131 has been restored which 121 in the exact condition it left service in 2008.

Here's two videos (Not mine) of one of the better A-FSA's and then you're typical E-DRS!

 

[Jordan Adam]

The current buses I have concerns about are the B5LH's (and maybe B5Ls?) with their short wheelbase and very long rear overhang supporting a heavy lump of metal at the very back. I can see chassis problems and bent bodies in the not too distant future.

I was thinking of those too, but then perhaps with them being deckers that might help?... I was hearing quite a while back that our Streetlites (SN14 plates) were already having minor corrosion issues.

 

[ChrisPJ]

No actual experience of Volvo Olympians, but I did get a chance to get underneath a preserved example and was somewhat taken aback by the amount of welding it was receiving to the chassis. Atlanteans never seem to need that level of work (at least not the 3 that I'm involved with).

Who was the bus operating with? The maintenance and steam cleaning regime would probably make a big difference