The buffer fitted power cars

[robertclark125]

Something that's always puzzled me, the eight buffer fitted class 43's, 43013/4, 43065/7/8, 43084 43123. They were used as surrogate DVTs with the class 91s and Mk3 stock, until the mk 4 stock and DVTs came online.

What's puzzled me is why they were fitted with buffers. After all, if a HST failed, the door was opened up under its nose, the coupling eye pulled out, a drawbar attached, and then attached to a locomotive to pull. Pretty simple (in theory if not in practice).

For the surrogate DVTs, the lower end of the nose section was removed, and conventional buffers fitted, with a drawhook. A screw coupling was carried in the engine bay. The main resevoir and brake pipes were fitted as normal, as were the 3 phase train supply jumper/sockets.

So, why was it neccessary to fit buffers to these eight surrogate DVTs?

 

[Royston Vasey]

Purely for ease of shunting during commissioning of the 91s. They would regularly do a number of trips between Bounds Green, Heaton, Craigentinny and elsewhere, and were regularly reformed at either end of the formation. This would include hauling the 91 if it failed, which was to be expected during commissioning.

Occasionally they'd also be required to haul buffered stock back-to-back. Since the drawbars are not intended as full service couplings, it was not good practice to use them on a consistent basis, particularly if pushing rather than hauling. The original production HSTs had no buffers because regular shunting of what were/are multiple units was not anticipated - which turned out to be incorrect!

 

[D365]

They were supposed to all have buffers like the prototypes, but got a front-end redesign before rolling off the line. The GC 43s don't look bad at all with theirs though.

I always thought that the buffered locos should be kept together, but I'm just being obsessive. However, I would like to see a permanent 91+Mk3/4+43 rake in preservation, as was done in 91 comissioning. Me going crazy again?

 

[TGVDUDE]

However, I would like to see a permanent 91+Mk3/4+43 rake in preservation, as was done in 91 comissioning. Me going crazy again?

I would like that, seems fitting to remember these workings especially when the days come without hsts and 91s.

 

[theblackwatch]

The power cars were also hauled (in service) on a daily basis between Bradford FS and Leeds. A Class 47 would haul the set to/from Bradford. The TGS coaches in the HST rakes used with Class 91s were also fitted with buffers at one end.

 

[sprinterguy]

We have had a fairly detailed discussion on this self same topic back in August 2010, as can be found here if anyone is interested:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=36134

I always thought that the buffered locos should be kept together, but I'm just being obsessive. However, I would like to see a permanent 91+Mk3/4+43 rake in preservation, as was done in 91 comissioning. Me going crazy again?

There was only very limited use of HST power cars with mark 4 carriages, and I'm not sure that a formation with an HST power car in the place of a mark 4 DVT ever occured in passenger service.

The buffer-fitted power cars are still almost all together: Six with GC and the other two with Network Rail.

 

[D365]

There was only very limited use of HST power cars with mark 4 carriages, and I'm not sure that a formation with an HST power car in the place of a mark 4 DVT ever occured in passenger service.

43s haven't run in place of a DVT on a Mk4 rake for sure, but 91+Mk3+43 has been used in passenger service, I seem to recall. If a 91+43 set was to ever be set up in preservation, I would use whatever stock type is easier to rebuild. Please tell me you like the idea!

The buffer-fitted power cars are still almost all together: Six with GC and the other two with Network Rail.

*FACEPALM* I'm so forgetful!

 

[sprinterguy]

43s haven't run in place of a DVT on a Mk4 rake for sure, but 91+Mk3+43 has been used in passenger service, I seem to recall. If a 91+43 set was to ever be set up in preservation, I would use whatever stock type is easier to rebuild. Please tell me you like the idea!

Certainly, the 91+Mk3+43 formations were used in passenger service for a period of some months on the Leeds runs in particular.

It would definitely be interesting to hook up a 91 to one end of an HST formation again and experience the performance that comes with having over 8,000hp on tap, but I doubt that in preservation, or anywhere else for that matter, it would be worth the cost. I presume that the buffer fitted power cars have since had their TDM equipment for working with class 91s removed? Not least as they have all, hopefully, undergone an extensive rewiring as part of the MTU programme, if not before then.

 

[robertclark125]

Certainly, the 91+Mk3+43 formations were used in passenger service for a period of some months on the Leeds runs in particular.

It would definitely be interesting to hook up a 91 to one end of an HST formation again and experience the performance that comes with having over 8,000hp on tap, but I doubt that in preservation, or anywhere else for that matter, it would be worth the cost. I presume that the buffer fitted power cars have since had their TDM equipment for working with class 91s removed? Not least as they have all, hopefully, undergone an extensive rewiring as part of the MTU programme, if not before then.

The TDM equipment was removed when the Mk4 stock and Mk4 DVT's started entering service. However, the wiring remained. After they went to Virgin, they then moved to FGW. They told me, when they withdrew them, that the TDM wiring wasstill installed in them, and it was the main reason they were removed from service. Obviously GC have re-engined theirs now with MTU engines, and so it's possible the TDM wiring has also been removed.

The TDM equipment, as well as the wiring, consisted of jumper cables on the inner end, a TDM control cubicle in the luggage van area, and a button indicator box located in the cab, installed above the top of the desk. The latter two were the items removed in 1990.

 

[sprinterguy]

Thanks very much for enlightening me on the matter