The future of the croxley green line after the cancellation of the croxley link project

[sad1e]

Croxley link and the met line extension are now definitely dead with the announcement from the Hertfordshire county council.

"We're looking at alternative uses of the disused railway line between Watford and Croxley, following the cancellation of the Metropolitan Line Extension project."

From: Announcement about the cancellation of the croxley link

What do you think the future of the alignment and railway will be.

Personally i hope for light rail / tram to run along the alignment.

 

[Seagull2006]

I wonder if they will just turn it into a cyclepath.

 

[Wolfie]

Croxley link and the met line extension are now definitely dead with the announcement from the Hertfordshire county council.

From: Announcement about the cancellation of the croxley link

What do you think the future of the alignment and railway will be.

Personally i hope for light rail / tram to run along the alignment.

Frankly Herts County Council thinking that London council tax payers would cough up to improve their transport links was always a massive pee take. They can deal with the consequences of that miscalculation and l really don't care what they do with the alignment (incidentally do they actually own it?).

 

[A S Leib]

If they've just announced this, I'm surprised that there isn't any news on the Herts Essex Rapid Transit. Right now I think it might be covered by local election purdah, but I haven't seen any mention in local election campaign material either. Last May, it was said that a proposed route would come later in the year, which didn't happen.

 

[sad1e]

I wonder if they will just turn it into a cyclepath.

hopefully not , that would be the cheapest approach but the roads around Watford aren't exactly packed and are decently safe for cycling.
It would be nice to have it return to railway use again. I would personally love to see a heritage railway pick up the alignment.

 

[AlterEgo]

It’ll end up as a cycle path I think.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Frankly Herts County Council thinking that London council tax payers would cough up to improve their transport links was always a massive pee take. They can deal with the consequences of that miscalculation and l really don't care what they do with the alignment (incidentally do they actually own it?).

It wasn’t a miscalculation - it was a political funding fix which unwound when the Mayor of London became a Labour one.

 

[sad1e]

(incidentally do they actually own it?).

I have explored the alignment a few times myself and most signage at what remains of the stations and on the alignment points towards it still being network rail owned. I have no idea how recent these signs are though but i would guess it is still network rail owned.

 

[stuu]

hopefully not , that would be the cheapest approach but the roads around Watford aren't exactly packed and are decently safe for cycling.
It would be nice to have it return to railway use again. I would personally love to see a heritage railway pick up the alignment.

Sorry what? I would suggest you are very much in a minority if you think roads aren't exactly packed. Watford has appalling traffic, West Watford where the Croxley link would have gone is a car park in the peaks. The best thing now would be a busway

 

[Egg Centric]

Watford traffic is poor but it's still an easy cycle to take road equivalents for the route of the line (indeed I used to do that daily). I can't see what a cycle path would add - it would be a solution in search of a problem imo.

I'd personally just keep it how it is until London taxpayers are rinsible again as @Wolfie puts it!

 

[John Webb]

I have explored the alignment a few times myself and most signage at what remains of the stations and on the alignment points towards it still being network rail owned. I have no idea how recent these signs are though but i would guess it is still network rail owned.

It is still NR owned, I understand. I saw contractors from NR working on it in September 2013:

Taken from the Chase nursing home where my late partner was at the time.
This next view shows there is already a substantial footpath running adjacent to the line:

(Sorry for the reflections!)

 

[Railwaysceptic]

It wasn’t a miscalculation - it was a political funding fix which unwound when the Mayor of London became a Labour one.

Speaking as a Londoner born and bred, that's about the only sensible decision he's made!

 

[Mgameing123]

Just make it a shuttle service with direct trains to London in the peak.

 

[Recessio]

If they've just announced this, I'm surprised that there isn't any news on the Herts Essex Rapid Transit. Right now I think it might be covered by local election purdah, but I haven't seen any mention in local election campaign material either. Last May, it was said that a proposed route would come later in the year, which didn't happen.

I think this is also probably the most likely permanent option, that it'll be kept in reserve for HERT. Otherwise it might just be left as is, or turned into a footpath/cycle path like the Worth Way.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I must admit the idea of a line running from Rickmansworth (?) to St Albans seems rather attractive.

Also looking on a map I see what looks like an old trackbed running further South than the old DC line to Croxley Green - starting roughly where the DC line to Euston turned back towards the WCML. So that must be a cylcle way alternative ?.

 

[A S Leib]

I must admit the idea of a line running from Rickmansworth (?) to St Albans seems rather attractive.

The problem is finding a way to go under the WCML.

There was a thread on improving links to Watford a few months ago and there's an ongoing thread on Aylesbury electrification relevant to the area.

 

[JKF]

I was pretty sure the local authority owned the line. I remember reading somewhere that the council had bought the former railway for a nominal fee (£1?) from NR.

When it came to funding for the LU extension they somewhat cheekily claimed that by donating the land for the line they were contributing something worth several million so that was all they needed to add to the pot. I think the London Mayor told them where to go!

 

[Clarence Yard]

The local authority in Watford is Watford Borough Council and they don’t own the line. It is Herts County Council who was involved in the “funding” route and the convoluted way of justifying the spend and the rather weird way of funding this type of scheme.

Basically a scheme which involved Herts, NR and a TFL asset was being funded, for political purposes, via TFL which worked when the Government, HCC and TfL were all controlled by the same party. When they weren’t it fell apart quite quickly.

Personally, having dealt with them (for WBC) for several years, I wouldn’t trust the public transport part of HCC to deliver much. Their thinking seemed very stuck in the past (1960’s/1970’s) when I was dealing with them and they were prone to coming up with mad schemes.

 

[Egg Centric]

Personally, having dealt with them (for WBC) for several years, I wouldn’t trust the public transport part of HCC to deliver much. Their thinking seemed very stuck in the past (1960’s/1970’s) when I was dealing with them and they were prone to coming up with mad schemes.

Whose "fault" was the Arriva Click services? They were very useful. For me, apparently the only passenger.

 

[sad1e]

to be honest i wouldn't be surprised if it becomes a busway with the alignment being almost fully unobstructed.

 

[Class15]

I’d leave it how it is, with a view to either resurrecting the Met line project or reinstating a shuttle service to Croxley Green when money is less tight.

 

[John Webb]

It needs to be remembered that the site of the original Croxley Green station lies beyond the existing end of the line, the route having been severed by a new road. So either a new bridge and a new station are needed, or just the latter. Pricey, whichever way you look at it.

 

[mr_jrt]

Just borrow the money and build the MLX as planned instead of spaffing almost as much on vastly less beneficial alternatives. The cost sounds like a lot, but frankly it's one-off noise in the budgets of those involved, and had they done so, then the inflation of the last few years would have made it considerably cheaper in real terms, and it would have been paying it back by now. It's all just so absolutely infuriating.

 

[Wolfie]

Just borrow the money and build the MLX as planned instead of spaffing almost as much on vastly less beneficial alternatives. The cost sounds like a lot, but frankly it's one-off noise in the budgets of those involved, and had they done so, then the inflation of the last few years would have made it considerably cheaper in real terms, and it would have been paying it back by now. It's all just so absolutely infuriating.

Who should borrow and cover the cost is the key issue. Why the heck should London council taxpayers subsidise Herts?

Methinks that your views about costs and revenue are hopelessly optimistic too - funding wouldn't have been an issue if this was a potential goldmine.

 

[Bald Rick]

Just borrow the money and build the MLX

That was the plan. It didn’t work.

 

[Class15]

It needs to be remembered that the site of the original Croxley Green station lies beyond the existing end of the line, the route having been severed by a new road. So either a new bridge and a new station are needed, or just the latter. Pricey, whichever way you look at it.

How much would a new bridge into Croxley Green cost?

 

[Clarence Yard]

As a scheme the MLX only worked as a North Watford to Watford link. As an internal Herts service, it’s a dead duck - the local buses are the obvious answer here.

The removal of the “bridge” (embankment) over the new Ascot road to facilitate the construction of that dual carriageway to the business parks means that any replacement won’t come cheap and any station works either at Ascot Road, Watford West or the projected station to serve the Hospital will have to be done to modern standards.

There has been talk of converting it into a West Watford relief road but the height transition at Ascot Road is a major problem with that idea.

 

[Bald Rick]

How much would a new bridge into Croxley Green cost?

Whatever it was estimated to cost. The bridge was planned and designed. IIRC the whole line was over £300m when it was abandoned. You can put 30% on that easily.

 

[Class15]

Whatever it was estimated to cost. The bridge was planned and designed. IIRC the whole line was over £300m when it was abandoned. You can put 30% on that easily.

Sorry for not phrasing that better, I meant the bridge that was ‘supposed’ to be built in 1996 (after the construction of the road severing the line).

 

[Clarence Yard]

Was a replacement bridge ever planned in 1996?