The housing crisis and ways to fix it?

[DC1989]

Austin and Houston of course are much less densely built in the first place than UK cities, and have lots of low-rise space and empty lots to densify into.

Agreed - but there are still millions of low rise 2 up 2 down type house in inner London - let alone outer London. Plenty of room to build millions of homes without removing a single blade of grass let alone 'concreting over our green and pleasant land'

 

[takno]

Agreed - but there are still millions of low rise 2 up 2 down type house in inner London - let alone outer London. Plenty of room to build millions of homes without removing a single blade of grass let alone 'concreting over our green and pleasant land'

I'm a bit suspicious of brownfield development. Building over every single bit of empty land, turning everything into a tall building and sadly declaring that low-rise buildings like community centres and scout huts don't justify their ground usage is much worse than building on a bit of scrappy green belt.

 

[renegademaster]

I'm a bit suspicious of brownfield development. Building over every single bit of empty land, turning everything into a tall building and sadly declaring that low-rise buildings like community centres and scout huts don't justify their ground usage is much worse than building on a bit of scrappy green belt.

Those community centers can easily be rebuilt under 5 stories flats,

 

[jon0844]

I watched some archive footage of an interview in the 1960s about immigration from the Commonwealth, and even then the Tories were moaning about how full the country was and we didn't have the necessary housing etc.

Some things never change!

 

[ainsworth74]

I can't help but feel that medium density is what we need more of in cities and larger towns. Not big tower blocks (the old "street in the sky" style) but more four or five story buildings with perhaps a shop or similar on the ground floor and then flats above. Something akin to what you might see in many European cities. Striking a balance between getting more accommodation out of a tight space but without raising the density to silly levels.

 

[jon0844]

Yes, people don't like high density living - and usually end up there only because they can't afford anything else, not because they're happy or wouldn't leave in a heartbeat (and if you don't like where you live, are you going to look after it?). It creates tensions with neighbours, a lack of space to move around, problems with parking, a lack of parks (grass verges alongside a road doesn't count, nor strategically planted trees) etc.

Medium density, and a mix of residential, retail, leisure and industry makes sense - but of course then people go down the '15 minute cities' conspiracy rabbit hole that suggests all towns will be surrounded by walls and nobody will be allowed out.

There are now many good examples of urban design, some amazingly being in the USA and Canada now that some states and cities are changing their crazy zoning laws.

 

[Snow1964]

Maisonettes definitely have service charges. I live in one, I’ve got the invoices.
The fabric of the building needs maintaining, including stairwells and walkways for the houses without ground floor entrances. My block was constructed of concrete, so I will shortly be getting a large bill as my share of the works to refurbish these. Unfortunately when the leases were set up there wasn’t a sinking fund setup, so it’s pay for works as they arise.

I have lived in 2 maisonettes, neither had service charges, just a fixed £10 a year to freeholders (originally quarterly, but by then collected annually). Upstairs maisonette had to cover costs of any roof repairs, downstairs had to cover all the fences, drains, garden paths etc. No sinking funds, pay as required and repairs had to be done promptly.

 

[david1212]

I can't help but feel that medium density is what we need more of in cities and larger towns. Not big tower blocks (the old "street in the sky" style) but more four or five story buildings with perhaps a shop or similar on the ground floor and then flats above. Something akin to what you might see in many European cities. Striking a balance between getting more accommodation out of a tight space but without raising the density to silly levels.

Yes, people don't like high density living - and usually end up there only because they can't afford anything else, not because they're happy or wouldn't leave in a heartbeat (and if you don't like where you live, are you going to look after it?). It creates tensions with neighbours, a lack of space to move around, problems with parking, a lack of parks (grass verges alongside a road doesn't count, nor strategically planted trees) etc.

As soon as you move away from a 'unit' not being partly at ground level it does not have any private ( as in not shared rather than not overlooked ) outdoor space. Further pack 'units' too closely and there is less privacy. Even if most households can again become single car owners there needs to be a minimum of 6m from the pavement to the front of the house. If just 12m ( 6 fence panels ) length at the rear the rows are 24m apart. By having three floors the 2up-2down of 100+ years ago becomes 2up-2middle-2down. One middle can be living space e.g. playroom/study then one bedroom and a loo/shower room with two bedrooms and a bathroom on the top. The realistic minimum width 4m and length 7m? The private outdoor space is then 4 x 12m. Pavement edge to pavement edge the streets will be 50m apart. Centre to centre 56m?

 

[DM352]

Yes, people don't like high density living - and usually end up there only because they can't afford anything else, not because they're happy or wouldn't leave in a heartbeat (and if you don't like where you live, are you going to look after it?). It creates tensions with neighbours, a lack of space to move around, problems with parking, a lack of parks (grass verges alongside a road doesn't count, nor strategically planted trees) etc.

Medium density, and a mix of residential, retail, leisure and industry makes sense - but of course then people go down the '15 minute cities' conspiracy rabbit hole that suggests all towns will be surrounded by walls and nobody will be allowed out.

There are now many good examples of urban design, some amazingly being in the USA and Canada now that some states and cities are changing their crazy zoning laws.

I see no issue with high rise provided they improve the garbage noise insulation from neighbours in building code.

What made me sell up a high rise unit at the time was greedy investors who bought adjacent units and then seeing strangers soon coming in, some getting out of taxis with just a sleeping bag and rucksack, and crowding out some units which changed the community feeling plus extra unwanted noise from increased population. Would have been nice to have had more stringent bylaws on maximum per unit and acceptable noise.

 

[J-2739]

People are making the assumption that high density=high-rise tower blocks, which is not true at all. Take a look at Paris and its 4-5 storey block heights, which still manages to eek out the highest population densities in Western Europe, and yet is considered to be very livable.

 

[The Ham]

People are making the assumption that high density=high-rise tower blocks, which is not true at all. Take a look at Paris and its 4-5 storey block heights, which still manages to eek out the highest population densities in Western Europe, and yet is considered to be very livable.

I've wondered if there was a way of creating a bungalow with a town house (+3 storeys) on top.

It would then be possible to have a green roof garden on top of the "bungalow" for the town house whilst still having a garden at ground level for the "bungalow".

Other options could be 4 storey duplexes (think traditional house layout, just with one stacked on another).

With many of these options parking becomes the issue. However, it would be possible to create basement parking (including under open space, which could be plazas and/or playgrounds. Add in some nearby allotments and there could be some decent outside spaces.

Although often the challenge is to get people to accept that they don't need a garden as large as they think that they do. For example a lot of our desire for outside space is to have space for the children to run around, if there was a playground within sight of our home it could make it less of a need for us to have so much of our own space.

However with higher densities it could reduce the need to travel by car. For example, where I live the most anyone needs to walk to a school or supermarket is about 1.5km, if they was reduced to 800m then the need for car ownership reduces significantly. Not only that, but buses become more viable as each stop is closer to more people.

It also means that big item facilitates becomes easier to justify.

Previously I've compared the population of Minehead with the capacity of the Butlins and it's shocking just how many people you can fit in to quite a small area. That's with a maximum of 3 storey building for the vast majority of the Butlins site (there's one 4 storey building of flats) and no flats above shops, etc.

 

[DC1989]

People are making the assumption that high density=high-rise tower blocks, which is not true at all. Take a look at Paris and its 4-5 storey block heights, which still manages to eek out the highest population densities in Western Europe, and yet is considered to be very livable.

Exactly but the question remains how do we get those terraced/ semi detached housing and turn it into 4/5 story blocks

 

[renegademaster]

I'd rather live in a high rise surrounded by greenery rather than some cramped feeling Paris style apartment.

 

[jon0844]

Would have been nice to have had more stringent bylaws on maximum per unit and acceptable noise.

We've had a number of properties illegally converted to HMOs over the years, causing various problems (as well as great risk to tenants in the event of a fire).

The council has clamped down on some with new powers (although often the fines seem pretty tiny), but I doubt they're able to keep up due to the slashing of their budgets and staffing shortages (which is why so many other issues arise that cause tension and make places 'unlivable' like parking issues, littering, anti-social behaviour, not dealing with fly tipping, graffiti etc).