The last weekend trains with a full restaurant car service

[AY1975]

As I recall at least from the 1980s onwards full restaurant car services were only generally available on Mondays to Fridays. I would guess that this was at least partly because by this time Open First coaches, rather than purpose-built restaurant cars, were normally used for the service of meals, and on many InterCity trains, at least on the routes to and from London, the same coach that was used as a restaurant car on weekdays was used as designated "Weekend First" accommodation for Second/Standard Class ticket holders on payment of a supplement.

Can anyone remember when the last weekend trains with a full restaurant car service ran, and which trains these were?

Even in the privatised era, until recently there was at least one early morning Sheffield-St Pancras train on Saturdays with a full at-seat breakfast service for First Class passengers. That was certainly the case under Midland Mainline and at least in the early days of East Midlands Trains. I'm not aware of any weekend trains with a full lunch or dinner service having operated at least since the 1980s, though.

 

[seventh-heaven]

Wrexham & Shropshire Jan 2011!

 

[route101]

Did GNER not have restaurant car service? I don't remember it in operation on the weekend.

 

[LowLevel]

As I recall at least from the 1980s onwards full restaurant car services were only generally available on Mondays to Fridays. I would guess that this was at least partly because by this time Open First coaches, rather than purpose-built restaurant cars, were normally used for the service of meals, and on many InterCity trains, at least on the routes to and from London, the same coach that was used as a restaurant car on weekdays was used as designated "Weekend First" accommodation for Second/Standard Class ticket holders on payment of a supplement.

Can anyone remember when the last weekend trains with a full restaurant car service ran, and which trains these were?

Even in the privatised era, until recently there was at least one early morning Sheffield-St Pancras train on Saturdays with a full at-seat breakfast service for First Class passengers. That was certainly the case under Midland Mainline and at least in the early days of East Midlands Trains. I'm not aware of any weekend trains with a full lunch or dinner service having operated at least since the 1980s, though.

There were no Saturday breakfast services under East Midlands Trains for many years.

They were introduced under the direct award in 2015 (I think) on the two morning Leeds to London via Nottingham HSTs which left Leicester at 0857 and 0957 (my brain suggests 1B23 and 1B28). They routinely had every seat taken in both classes by the time they'd left Leicester and watching the crew serve a cooked breakfast to over 100 covers was something to behold on an industrial scale.

They can't have made any extra money out of it as the trains were always full anyway, many of the travellers were either on cheap advance and weekend first tickets, or friends and family tickets/staff passes.

They were withdrawn at the COVID lockdown and won't be reappearing.

 

[Mag_seven]

Can anyone remember when the last weekend trains with a full restaurant car service ran, and which trains these were?

Late 70s / early 80s there was at least one Euston Glasgow service with a full restaurant service on Sundays.

Even in the privatised era, until recently there was at least one early morning Sheffield-St Pancras train on Saturdays with a full at-seat breakfast service for First Class passengers. That was certainly the case under Midland Mainline and at least in the early days of East Midlands Trains. I'm not aware of any weekend trains with a full lunch or dinner service having operated at least since the 1980s, though.

Virgin trains experimented with weekday style full at seat breakfast service in 1st class on a small number of Manchester-London services on Saturday mornings. It was a short lived experiment (perhaps only for a few months) and I think it was staffed by volunteers on overtime? Probably about 2010ish?

 

[Rescars]

Wrexham & Shropshire Jan 2011!

Ah Wrexham and Shropshire, the sort of passenger experience from which fairy tales are made!!

 

[Iskra]

The Caledonian Sleeper on a Fri/Sun evening or indeed Saturday morning?

 

[stj]

As I recall at least from the 1980s onwards full restaurant car services were only generally available on Mondays to Fridays. I would guess that this was at least partly because by this time Open First coaches, rather than purpose-built restaurant cars, were normally used for the service of meals, and on many InterCity trains, at least on the routes to and from London, the same coach that was used as a restaurant car on weekdays was used as designated "Weekend First" accommodation for Second/Standard Class ticket holders on payment of a supplement.

Can anyone remember when the last weekend trains with a full restaurant car service ran, and which trains these were?

Even in the privatised era, until recently there was at least one early morning Sheffield-St Pancras train on Saturdays with a full at-seat breakfast service for First Class passengers. That was certainly the case under Midland Mainline and at least in the early days of East Midlands Trains. I'm not aware of any weekend trains with a full lunch or dinner service having operated at least since the 1980s, though.

The last one I travelled on was a Euston Glasgow in mid 1983 and for some reason a Dinner service was offered and the train was advertised as Buffet only, which was the norm on the WCML by then,I think most Saturday dining finished early 80s.

 

[scotLAN]

As I recall at least from the 1980s onwards full restaurant car services were only generally available on Mondays to Fridays. I would guess that this was at least partly because by this time Open First coaches, rather than purpose-built restaurant cars, were normally used for the service of meals, and on many InterCity trains, at least on the routes to and from London, the same coach that was used as a restaurant car on weekdays was used as designated "Weekend First" accommodation for Second/Standard Class ticket holders on payment of a supplement.

Can anyone remember when the last weekend trains with a full restaurant car service ran, and which trains these were?

Even in the privatised era, until recently there was at least one early morning Sheffield-St Pancras train on Saturdays with a full at-seat breakfast service for First Class passengers. That was certainly the case under Midland Mainline and at least in the early days of East Midlands Trains. I'm not aware of any weekend trains with a full lunch or dinner service having operated at least since the 1980s, though.

I seem to remember one of my old intercity guides from the early 90’s shows a Sunday restaurant service. From recollection it was a morning down Paddington - Penzance and the late afternoon return. Will have to dig the guide out to see if my memory is right!

 

[WesternLancer]

There were no Saturday breakfast services under East Midlands Trains for many years.

They were introduced under the direct award in 2015 (I think) on the two morning Leeds to London via Nottingham HSTs which left Leicester at 0857 and 0957 (my brain suggests 1B23 and 1B28). They routinely had every seat taken in both classes by the time they'd left Leicester and watching the crew serve a cooked breakfast to over 100 covers was something to behold on an industrial scale.

They can't have made any extra money out of it as the trains were always full anyway, many of the travellers were either on cheap advance and weekend first tickets, or friends and family tickets/staff passes.

They were withdrawn at the COVID lockdown and won't be reappearing.

Well, did make regular money out of me as I paid more (by way of upgrades etc) to enjoy it. The fairly meagre cold sandwich offer on the equiv Saturday trains in first class now is a poor substitute sadly.

Yes, ended with Covid - I think the last time I enjoyed the cooked breakfast was in feb 2019.

 

[CHESHIRECAT]

The Virgin experiment was actually on Sundays from Preston and Manchester; no thought given to the logistics ; I worked a couple; the TM sold the upgrades and that included the Breakfast but no enthusiasm from the one I worked with from Preston.....

There was an 0915 EUS/GLC on Sundays until 1981 ish (BF/LUNCH)

Some crews were inventive and asked for a chef on Saturdays EUS/GLC and did a bit of private enterprise and provided full dining...

 

[scotLAN]

The Virgin experiment was actually on Sundays from Preston and Manchester; no thought given to the logistics ; I worked a couple; the TM sold the upgrades and that included the Breakfast but no enthusiasm from the one I worked with from Preston.....

There was an 0915 EUS/GLC on Sundays until 1981 ish (BF/LUNCH)

Some crews were inventive and asked for a chef on Saturdays EUS/GLC and did a bit of private enterprise and provided full dining...

Reminds me of Roger Ford’s comments in Modern Railways of the chef cooking a Steak & Kidney pie that was ‘off menu’ and no doubt another bit of private enterprise

 

[AY1975]

Did GNER not have restaurant car service? I don't remember it in operation on the weekend.

Yes, they did, but AFAIK it was only on Mondays to Fridays as had, at least from the 1980s onwards, been the case under BR, by and large with a few exceptions as mentioned elsewhere in this thread.

 

[miklcct]

What is the reason that restaurant car doesn't operate on weekends in modern times? Do First Class passengers deserve worse treatment on weekends, when more long-distance leisure travel is undertaken?

 

[Towers]

What is the reason that restaurant car doesn't operate on weekends in modern times? Do First Class passengers deserve worse treatment on weekends, when more long-distance leisure travel is undertaken?

Typically First Class exists/existed (moreso pre-Covid) to cater for the well to do weekday commuter, often travelling on very expensively priced season tickets, or on eye watering walk-up fares paid for by their employer. During the weekends that traffic was largely non existant and the train operators would merely seek to make whatever money they could from selling cheap First Class advance fares or on-board upgrades. The lower income from these passengers simply doesn’t/didn’t justify the same outlay on catering as the weekday traffic.

Things have changed somewhat since Covid, and there is very probably a sensible debate to be had in some cases about whether First Class should continue to exist at all, but that is very much off topic!

 

[Devonian]

I seem to remember one of my old intercity guides from the early 90’s shows a Sunday restaurant service. From recollection it was a morning down Paddington - Penzance and the late afternoon return. Will have to dig the guide out to see if my memory is right!

This was still running in the January-March 2000 Great Western timetable. 1005 from Paddington, 1730 from Penzance. Two courses for £17, three for £21. Open to both standard and first class, of course, just as it should be.

 

[Rescars]

What is the reason that restaurant car doesn't operate on weekends in modern times? Do First Class passengers deserve worse treatment on weekends, when more long-distance leisure travel is undertaken?

I would guess for much the same reason that restaurant cars have always been thinner on the ground at weekends. On shorter routes, the volume demand pre-covid came from first-class business passengers wanting breakfast on their way to a full working day at journey's end. After that things became much more fragmented. I would suspect that some services later in the day were provided mainly to optimise the use of staff already on shift. The early morning breakfast demand isn't anything like as strong at weekends and, in competition, the quality of takeaway coffee and pastries and available at major stations has got better and better!

 

[WesternLancer]

What is the reason that restaurant car doesn't operate on weekends in modern times? Do First Class passengers deserve worse treatment on weekends, when more long-distance leisure travel is undertaken?

To add to other comments I suspect at least by the 1970s, 80s and into the 90s many or most of those dining would have been on work related expenses accounts - so the meals paid for by their employers. They would not have been travelling at the weekend so the demand for restaurant car service would be much reduced.

I don't agree with this view myself, but I think for many travellers the perception of the restaurant car was that it was a pretty expensive facility to use.

I think 1st class seating at weekends was often in far less demand too - at least until the creation of the 'weekend first' upgrade by BR - sometime in the 1980s when that started.

So it's not that 1st class travellers deserve worse treatment on weekends (and in any case the restaurants were open to 2nd Class / Standard passengers pre privatisation) - it's just that there were not many such passengers at weekends!*

I guess post privatisation it would have been down to the private operators view on whether weekend 1st class leisure travellers would have wanted to pay for full meal services in sufficient numbers to justify the recruitment of staff to provide it at the times it would be reasonable to provide it.

*edit not many such passengers looking to buy restaurant car meals at weekends.

 

[Rescars]

So it's not that 1st class travellers deserve worse treatment on weekends (and in any case the restaurants were open to 2nd Class / Standard passengers pre privatisation) - it's just that there were not many such passengers at weekends!

On some services, strictly first class only, but on others first class accommodation deemed unclassified for the duration of food service. A joyous conundrum for both passengers and ticket inspectors!

 

[Jamesrob637]

Sunday evening trains could have justified it pre-COVID for those looking to be in places more than a couple of hours away for Monday morning. Sunday night hotels can be dirt cheap: I bagged a Holiday Inn Express in Leeds at the end of last month for barely GBP50 (and you get breakfast free at that chain, albeit not the most inspiring of fare, however it does the job).

 

[Helvellyn]

Typically First Class exists/existed (moreso pre-Covid) to cater for the well to do weekday commuter, often travelling on very expensively priced season tickets, or on eye watering walk-up fares paid for by their employer. During the weekends that traffic was largely non existant and the train operators would merely seek to make whatever money they could from selling cheap First Class advance fares or on-board upgrades. The lower income from these passengers simply doesn’t/didn’t justify the same outlay on catering as the weekday traffic.

Things have changed somewhat since Covid, and there is very probably a sensible debate to be had in some cases about whether First Class should continue to exist at all, but that is very much off topic!

LNER offer three levels of complimentary First Class catering - Deli, Dish and Dine. The latter has a Chef to either do the full breakfast or a hot main/dessert. This latter one is only offered Mon-Fri but a number of weekend trains have the Dish menu with hot breakfast rolls or a couple of hot main items for lunch/dinner.

I know it's not a restaurant car service but it's probably the most comprehensive catering offering now available. GWR Pullman sits above the LNER Dine menu for what you get but has to be paid for, albeit it is available to Standard customers (space permitting).

 

[GS250]

The last one I travelled on was a Euston Glasgow in mid 1983 and for some reason a Dinner service was offered and the train was advertised as Buffet only, which was the norm on the WCML by then,I think most Saturday dining finished early 80s.

Pretty sure a very limited number of Harwich - Liverpool Street 'boat trains' offered breakfast at weekends in the early 80s? Maybe a vain attempt to impress the Dutch although no doubt there was a cheaper and more plentiful version on the ferry.

I do recall catering on the GE being pretty random for a period. Restaurant cars occasionally turning up on the Kings Lynn services although only brekkie was ever offered.

 

[Magdalia]

Pretty sure a very limited number of Harwich - Liverpool Street 'boat trains' offered breakfast at weekends in the early 80s? Maybe a vain attempt to impress the Dutch although no doubt there was a cheaper and more plentiful version on the ferry.

The up and down Hook Continental still had a restaurant service on Saturdays (but not Sundays) in the 1981 timetable.

I do recall catering on the GE being pretty random for a period. Restaurant cars occasionally turning up on the Kings Lynn services although only brekkie was ever offered.

There was one timetable when the 1035 to Kings Lynn was booked a Norwich line aircon set but I can't find which year.