The London Bridge “our station staff” announcement…

[Sad Sprinter]

Inspired by the “four elderly ladies at Leeds” thread…

What’s the deal with the automated announcement at London Bridge station? I seem to recall it was installed in 2020 and plays every time you just step out of the train, it goes:

“Our station staff are here to answer any questions you may have…”

The announcer then takes a weirdly confrontational tone…

“NO ONE should feel threatened [and something else] whilst doing their job…”

Then offers this perfunctory olive branch of peace…

“Let’s work together, to keep everyone safe.”

It’s really irritating. I have the utmost sympathy for station staff abused by psychopaths and narcissists of this world, but I hate the feeling that I’m being parented and as a traveller of the railway, I’m an inherent and potential nuisance. Is this announcement really necessary? The type of person likely to stand off to station staff are probably not going to be swayed by an automated announcement, and the rest of us just blast music through our earphones when travelling by train so we can block out the endless stream of dirge…

 

[Tobberz]

I have always found these sort of messages on the railway really odd too.

If I am an unpleasant and abusive passenger, I will be unpleasant and abusive no matter if an announcement/sign tells me not to. On the other hand, if I am a reasonable man who doesn't abuse staff, I don't need the signs anyway.

I struggle to imagine the set of people who go out and about thinking "I will abuse a worker", but are stopped at the last minute by a patronising announcement.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I have always found these sort of messages on the railway really odd too.

If I am an unpleasant and abusive passenger, I will be unpleasant and abusive no matter if an announcement/sign tells me not to. On the other hand, if I am a reasonable man who doesn't abuse staff, I don't need the signs anyway.

I struggle to imagine the set of people who go out and about thinking "I will abuse a worker", but are stopped at the last minute by a patronising announcement.

“Oh I didn’t know that wasn’t allowed here, what am ‘oi loike!”

Can’t see it either…

 

[Jan Mayen]

Has there been any research to see if signs saying don't abuse the workers or whatever actually work?

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Has there been any research to see if signs saying don't abuse the workers or whatever actually work?

That would be interesting.

Just to be clear, I don’t mind notices telling people not to abuse staff, I just take umbrage at the tone and wording of this particular announcement at London Bridge.

 

[Greenheart]

I heard something very similar this morning in a branch of Superdrug, which I thought a bit odd. My guess would be that it's considered the first step in any 'refusal of service' process should anyone get too abusive or aggressive.

 

[godfreycomplex]

Not directed at any particular individual, but most unpleasant and abusive passengers don’t think they’re being unpleasant or abusive

Bear in mind that London Bridge has a high proportion of the most unpleasant and abusive type of passenger - the entitled wealthy commuter

 

[TUC]

I feel the same about similar signs in supermarkets. It offends the well behaved customers who make up the majority whilst those inclined to be abusive won't change their mind by a sign being there. Pointless, tokenistic virtue signalling.

 

[Horizon22]

People on this forum really do get the hump about announcements in the weirdest ways. Staff abuse is at record levels. Within the last year, station staff have been injured in life-changing ways or even killed. Unfortunately announcements are universal and just because one person feels "parented" it is helpful to have and some may appreciate it. I have heard similar announcements and signage in retail establishments too.

It's a simple reminder that behaviour is not tolerated. It shouldn't be required but sadly it is.

 

[TUC]

People on this forum really do get the hump about announcements in the weirdest ways. Staff abuse is at record levels. Within the last year, station staff have been injured in life-changing ways or even killed. Unfortunately announcements are universal and just because one person feels "parented" it is helpful to have and some may appreciate it. I have heard similar announcements and signage in retail establishments too.

It's a simple reminder that behaviour is not tolerated. It shouldn't be required but sadly it is.

But what evidence is there that the announcements make any difference, as opposed to being more background noise?

 

[Bigfoot]

Given that I have been subjected to some delightful abuse from the supposedly well heeled better members of society and commuters of the south east I think the messages are directed at absolutely everyone.

Thankfully it's water off a ducks back to me, but to others it won't be and potentially will hang heavily on their shoulders. I treat others with respect and until everyone does the same these kind of messages will always be required.

If everyone purchased a correct ticket then we wouldn't need revenue checks or ticket barriers. Should we remove them because only a minority don't abide by the rules?

 

[noddingdonkey]

Not condoning any abuse, but I have noticed a correlation between companies which put out notices about respecting the staff and those where I don't feel particularly respected as a customer.

 

[duffield]

Given that I have been subjected to some delightful abuse from the supposedly well heeled better members of society and commuters of the south east I think the messages are directed at absolutely everyone.

Thankfully it's water off a ducks back to me, but to others it won't be and potentially will hang heavily on their shoulders. I treat others with respect and until everyone does the same these kind of messages will always be required.

If everyone purchased a correct ticket then we wouldn't need revenue checks or ticket barriers. Should we remove them because only a minority don't abide by the rules?

The difference is that ticket barriers, for example, are clearly somewhat effective at achieving their objective. They deter and prevent casual fare evasion by those not blatant enough to jump over them or bump through them. Whereas (as pointed out by others) we have zero evidence that the "abuse" messages have even the slightest effect on the behaviour of those they are aimed at, who presumably think their behaviour is just fine.

No-one is doubting that the message is well-meant or that abuse is a real and serious issue. Some of us just think that the messages are likely to totally fail to achieve their objective (presumably reducing abusive behaviour) even to a small degree. If there was any evidence that they did work even a little bit, I'd be all for them.

Some things that I think might have at least some effect:

• More prosecutions on more serious charges (where possible) with attendant publicity, for example, and maybe specific additional laws about abuse of "public service workers" (is there already something like that for NHS staff or did I imagine it?)
• More BTP officers at more locations and so able to respond at all and respond faster.
• Identifying repeat offenders, getting banning orders and enforcing them, and using them as examples (this was done recently for one person on the Nottingham tram system - a "banned" poster on every tram, so it's clearly legally possible).

 

[rg177]

Not condoning any abuse, but I have noticed a correlation between companies which put out notices about respecting the staff and those where I don't feel particularly respected as a customer.

And you're perfectly entitled to be disgruntled with that - I'm sure we've all had moments where we've been frustrated at the railway. I've worked at stations during disruptions and you took that sort of thing in your stride. I used to issue Penalty Fares - people would get angry. It wasn't personal to me, they were just annoyed at what had happened.

What wasn't okay was a passenger describing how they'd like to kill me in graphic detail because I asked them to finish their bottle of beer before they came through the ticket gates. He wasn't necessarily someone who went around abusing staff on a daily basis, but he'd had a couple of drinks and thought he was all that. That's what these announcements are aimed at - dealing with ticked off people is part and parcel of the job, being personally threatened is not.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

People on this forum really do get the hump about announcements in the weirdest ways. Staff abuse is at record levels. Within the last year, station staff have been injured in life-changing ways or even killed. Unfortunately announcements are universal and just because one person feels "parented" it is helpful to have and some may appreciate it. I have heard similar announcements and signage in retail establishments too.

It's a simple reminder that behaviour is not tolerated. It shouldn't be required but sadly it is.

As if it’ll do anything If you’re that morally inept as to abuse someone, you’re not going to have a sudden redemption arc at hearing that abuse isn’t allowed.

What wasn't okay was a passenger describing how they'd like to kill me in graphic detail because I asked them to finish their bottle of beer before they came through the ticket gates. He wasn't necessarily someone who went around abusing staff on a daily basis, but he'd had a couple of drinks and thought he was all that. That's what these announcements are aimed at - dealing with ticked off people is part and parcel of the job, being personally threatened is not.

And this is what I mean. Had a scumbag like this heard an announcement saying “Threatening behaviour is not something anyone should have to put up with while doing their job” playing five minutes before, I really don’t think he’d have instead drank up, smiled and passed through quietly as a result, I’m sorry.

 

[talldave]

Has there been any research to see if signs saying don't abuse the workers or whatever actually work?

I think Bill Posters has been prosecuted a number times .

 

[vuzzeho]

As if it’ll do anything If you’re that morally inept as to abuse someone, you’re not going to have a sudden redemption arc at hearing that abuse isn’t allowed.

But as @rg177 has mentioned - abuse isn't just from evil abusers who walk around hitting people every day, but can be from people who aren't typically abusive. Now, of course, people know that abuse isn't allowed, but these announcements and signs aren't just there to let them know abuse isn't allowed. They will have other effects, for example, they remind people of the company's attitude towards abuse and how it will be met. Additionally, they may cause people to consider what can be considered as abuse - as a situation gone too far can turn into abuse, and it can remind people to control themselves better or face the consequences.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

But as @rg177 has mentioned - abuse isn't just from evil abusers who walk around hitting people every day, but can be from people who aren't typically abusive. Now, of course, people know that abuse isn't allowed, but these announcements and signs aren't just there to let them know abuse isn't allowed. They will have other effects, for example, they remind people of the company's attitude towards abuse and how it will be met. Additionally, they may cause people to consider what can be considered as abuse - as a situation gone too far can turn into abuse, and it can remind people to control themselves better or face the consequences.

But the thing is is we’re talking specifically about the announcements that are actually being put out, which don’t actually imply what will happen. They don’t even say abuse/threats won’t be tolerated. They ask you to respect staff and effectively say people shouldn’t have to deal with sh*t at work. Then some sap about working together. For all we know from those announcements, the consequences for such behaviour could simply be a tut and a wagging finger!

Now announcements that said something like “Please remember that any abusive or threatening behaviour will be reported to the British Transport Police, and may preceed fines or prosecution” could do what you’ve suggested above. But the existing ones don’t do that.

 

[renegademaster]

It may be the announcements cause a broken windows effect. If you are bombarded with announcements which gives you the impression that abuse and criminal behaviour are going to be present, people are going to be more tense and likely to lash out.

 

[starlight73]

But as @rg177 has mentioned - abuse isn't just from evil abusers who walk around hitting people every day, but can be from people who aren't typically abusive. Now, of course, people know that abuse isn't allowed, but these announcements and signs aren't just there to let them know abuse isn't allowed.

I remember some TfL posters from years ago saying ‘you wouldn’t be abusive at your workplace. Don’t do it at ours’ - so that fits into the category you were just talking about.

 

[Broucek]

Not condoning any abuse, but I have noticed a correlation between companies which put out notices about respecting the staff and those where I don't feel particularly respected as a customer.

Can't argue with that...

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Not condoning any abuse, but I have noticed a correlation between companies which put out notices about respecting the staff and those where I don't feel particularly respected as a customer.

Does LNER have these notices then, as this probably the TOC where I feel most patronised. Mind you, I consider no one to be as blatantly disrespectful and rude as Euston‘s Avanti team.

I’ve heard these announcements mainly at Network Rail stations served by Southeastern and GTR, like Victoria and Charing Cross and it gives me primary school vibes, mainly the “Let’s work together.“ Mind you, she sounds more professional at Victoria than Matt does.

 

[AlterEgo]

And you're perfectly entitled to be disgruntled with that - I'm sure we've all had moments where we've been frustrated at the railway. I've worked at stations during disruptions and you took that sort of thing in your stride. I used to issue Penalty Fares - people would get angry. It wasn't personal to me, they were just annoyed at what had happened.

What wasn't okay was a passenger describing how they'd like to kill me in graphic detail because I asked them to finish their bottle of beer before they came through the ticket gates. He wasn't necessarily someone who went around abusing staff on a daily basis, but he'd had a couple of drinks and thought he was all that. That's what these announcements are aimed at - dealing with ticked off people is part and parcel of the job, being personally threatened is not.

He would have been exactly the same had he not heard an announcement telling him to be kind. Staff assaults are as high as they have ever been and so are the “be kind” communications. There’s no evidence they work.

What would deter this sort of behaviour is stronger enforcement of the law, but this is Britain. We are an incredibly low effort country to the point where some people getting issued death threats at work think a sign and an announcement is part of dealing with the problem. It is an unbelievably rotted culture.

This is another thread I’ll show a Dutch friend who I met in London recently. They’d landed just that morning and spent the day on London’s transit, and their first question was basically “what the hell is with all the patronising announcements about not abusing people?”

There are lots of problems with “Be Kind” culture and it’s quite depressing how deeply it has gripped our necrotic social order.

 

[J-2739]

Have to listen to these awful announcements passing through London Bridge every weekday. And since the announcements are zoned, you can hear it move across the station in a cyclical fashion. It doesn't help that the lady has a condescending tone that's always reminded me of Rishi Sunak's own voice.

Combined with the "Please hold the moving handrail, and face the direction of travel" noise that repeats when someone enters every escalator in the station (yes, EVERY), this creates a dumbed down environment where everyone is treated like children.

He would have been exactly the same had he not heard an announcement telling him to be kind. Staff assaults are as high as they have ever been and so are the “be kind” communications. There’s no evidence they work.

What would deter this sort of behaviour is stronger enforcement of the law, but this is Britain. We are an incredibly low effort country to the point where some people getting issued death threats at work think a sign and an announcement is part of the problem. It is an unbelievably rotted culture.

This is another thread I’ll show a Dutch friend who I met in London recently. They’d landed just that morning and spent the day on London’s transit, and their first question was basically “what the hell is with all the patronising announcements about not abusing people?”

There are lots of problems with “Be Kind” culture and it’s quite depressing how deeply it has gripped our necrotic social order.

Going to the Netherlands last year opened my eyes to how fewer announcements can create a much more calmer environment. Utrecht Central station, the largest in the country, possibly had the same amount as Barnsley.

 

[Harpo]

Respect has to be earned. I was struck by the helpfulness and politeness of the stewards at a major stadium a couple of weeks ago. No raised voices anywhere. In contrast, the platform staff earlier in my journey bawling at people to get behind the yellow line on a very busy platform.

Yes, there are obnoxious customers out there, but stop winding up the rest.

 

[adc82140]

Exactly. I will qualify this by echoing that abuse of any staff anywhere is unacceptable, but respect has to be earned in a public facing role. Respect the customer, an with the exception of obvious idiots, you will be respected back.

 

[Springs Branch]

Now announcements that said something like “Please remember that any abusive or threatening behaviour will be reported to the British Transport Police, and may proceed fines or prosecution” could do what you’ve suggested above. But the existing ones don’t do that.

I agree with what's been said upthread about the ineffectiveness of the Please Be Kind approach.

Reading through the Disputes & Prosecutions forum, there's a significant fraction of the people who go on there (in connection with fare evasion, not staff abuse etc.) who say words to the effect "I can grit my teeth and pay whatever the fine will be, but I absolutely, definitely can't afford to get myself a criminal record. Please help me avoid a criminal record".

Maybe there should be some publicity emphasising the burdensome consequences of an unexpected criminal record, as that seems to be quite a big stick for many people. Something along the lines of "Any abuse & assault of rail staff could result in intervention by British Transport Police and your possible arrest. You could be taken to the cells and could get a criminal conviction for assault. Don't risk getting yourself a criminal record. That will really stuff up your life and could cost you your job".

Obviously, with the hardcore "Don't Give a ****" merchants, this won't have any effect at all, and very little will beyond burly policemen everywhere.

But some of the fringe cases - like the 'Karens' of this world, and the well-heeled commuter at London Bridge who had a bad day in the office - might think twice if they thought they might end up not just in court, but also going to see Clarissa in HR to disclose their new conviction for assault, or have to provide details of their criminal record next time they apply for a new credit card or renew their house insurance.

I suppose it's better to have a bit of deterrence for the money you spend on recording announcement and printing posters than none at all.

I remember some TfL posters from years ago saying ‘you wouldn’t be abusive at your workplace. Don’t do it at ours’ - so that fits into the category you were just talking about.

Back in the 1970s, I remember posters on the Tube stating something quite magisterial like "London Transport's lawyers will always press for the maximum available penalty for anyone convicted of assaulting members of LT staff". I wonder if those ever worked back then?

 

[adc82140]

Back in the 1970s, I remember posters on the Tube stating something quite magisterial like "London Transport's lawyers will always press for the maximum available penalty for anyone convicted of assaulting members of LT staff". I wonder if those ever worked back then?

The problem is now that everything has to be so wordy for some reason. The 1970s post was concise and to the point.

If they must have announcements, how about "if you abuse staff we always prosecute". Done.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

So my takeaways from this thread are:

1. Once again, these announcements are a sign of Britain’s rapidly fraying social fabric

2. Britain is a low-effort, high risk averse culture, so these announcements are an easier way to deal with potential staff abuse rather than a greater police presence, more direct threats to criminals themselves instead of creating a “everyone must work together because our environment is inherently unsafe” mindset

3. Lack of service culture, consideration for passenger ambiance, common sense, or a widespread culture of harmonious group think resulting in aforementioned mindset

In short, Britain is truly depressing.

People may laugh at me for saying these announcements make me feel parented, but it’s maddening living in a country with such endemic institutional incompetence, but has such low trust in its own citizens. @TT-ONR-NRN is right to point out the weird “primary school” language of the final line, because it implies that nobody can be trusted to conduct themselves properly, but also ironically there is no presence of justice and law enforcement if we all need to “work together to keep everyone safe”.

 

[Deepgreen]

But what evidence is there that the announcements make any difference, as opposed to being more background noise?

This is key - the background noise keeps on growing and we are being told more and more inane things - 'crime is illegal'-type stuff. In my case it just makes me double-check I have my ear buds when I use trains nowadays, and I am far from alone in that.

So my takeaways from this thread are:

1. Once again, these announcements are a sign of Britain’s rapidly fraying social fabric

2. Britain is a low-effort, high risk averse culture, so these announcements are an easier way to deal with potential staff abuse rather than a greater police presence, more direct threats to criminals themselves instead of creating a “everyone must work together because our environment is inherently unsafe” mindset

3. Lack of service culture, consideration for passenger ambiance, common sense, or a widespread culture of harmonious group think resulting in aforementioned mindset

In short, Britain is truly depressing.

People may laugh at me for saying these announcements make me feel parented, but it’s maddening living in a country with such endemic institutional incompetence, but has such low trust in its own citizens. @TT-ONR-NRN is right to point out the weird “primary school” language of the final line, because it implies that nobody can be trusted to conduct themselves properly, but also ironically there is no presence of justice and law enforcement if we all need to “work together to keep everyone safe”.

Agreed. The "see it, say it, sorted" drivel is a key example for me - falsely 'chummy' and just plain unnecessary - just give the phone/text number without the cringeworthy blurb.