The Menace Of Class 150 Rail Travel

[ed1971]

After another contributor started 'The Horror of Pacers' thread, I felt that on balance it was time someone should start this one about 150s.
I will make no bones about it, I have always detested the things from new, especially the 150/1s. The excessive engine noise levels are horrendous and they are claustrophobic sweat-boxes in summer. In fact the claustrophobic nature of the units and the noisy engines causes me too much stress and anxiety.

Now that the Pacers are being withdrawn, I am going to have to give up rail travel, except when travelling to the Liverpool area, (somehow the 319s don't seem quite as bad).

It is ironic that Northern have launched a drive to create an Autism friendly railway, (https://media.northernrailway.co.uk/news/northern-helps-launch-uks-first-autism-friendly-railway) whilst at the same time the trains I feel at ease travelling on (because they are light and airy and I don't feel trapped) are being withdrawn.

In any case lets have you views on the 150s...

 

[507021]

Apart from GWR's and TfW's examples, which I think are decent units, I'm not really a massive fan of 150s.

If I had a choice between a 142 or a 150, I'd choose the Pacer every time.

 

[Geoff DC]

Described as 'Albanian Trains' by some users in Cornwall

 

[Cardiff123]

I think Arriva did a pretty good job of internally refreshing the 150/2s in Wales, just 2 years before they were due to leave the franchise

 

[bramling]

After another contributor started 'The Horror of Pacers' thread, I felt that on balance it was time someone should start this one about 150s.
I will make no bones about it, I have always detested the things from new, especially the 150/1s. The excessive engine noise levels are horrendous and they are claustrophobic sweat-boxes in summer. In fact the claustrophobic nature of the units and the noisy engines causes me too much stress and anxiety.

Now that the Pacers are being withdrawn, I am going to have to give up rail travel, except when travelling to the Liverpool area, (somehow the 319s don't seem quite as bad).

It is ironic that Northern have launched a drive to create an Autism friendly railway, (https://media.northernrailway.co.uk/news/northern-helps-launch-uks-first-autism-friendly-railway) whilst at the same time the trains I feel at ease travelling on (because they are light and airy and I don't feel trapped) are being withdrawn.

In any case lets have you views on the 150s...

My main gripe with them is that there’s only a handful of seats which offer a decent window view, especially if the toilet vehicle is leading. Likewise with PRM modifications they’re quite short on seats.

The NWT/FNW interior (with the facing seats) I don’t mind at all, and likewise the GWR refurbishment is also very nice - if a bit lacking in seats.

So IMV they’re fundamentally a decent train, but better when running as 3 or 4 car, and would benefit from the whole fleet being made up to the standard of those mentioned above.

It’s also worth remembering that as a fleet they’ve been totally thrashed over the years, and whilst people may moan about the interiors and the noise, like all Sprinters they’ve held up well operationally.

And from an enthusiast point of view they can give a lively experience on a fast run with windows open. A run over the Bentham line in wet weather is quite an experience, or some of the Welsh services where they do longer runs at speed. A few weeks ago I did the mid-evening run from Fishguard back to Carmarthen and (with a crew on their last trip and clearly in no mood to hang around) it was a pretty impressive run for a 30-year-old diesel train.

 

[Trainfan061193]

I personally have a strong dislike for 150/1s but GWR’s 150/2s are pretty decent. If I had to choose between a 143, 150/1 or 153 I would definitely go for the 143.

 

[Andyh82]

I’d probably pick a 144 over a 150, and maybe even a Northern Spirit 142.

I think Arriva did a pretty good job of internally refreshing the 150/2s in Wales, just 2 years before they were due to leave the franchise

See if the Northern ones looked like that, they might be passable.

As it is, the very low down BR era seating, and the 3+2 layout means I have a heavy dislike for them.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

I've never liked Class 150's. I've always found them uncomfortable, cramped and by no fault of the trains themselves, (mostly) dirty (but that isn't a surprise really as a majority of my Class 150 experiences were not-so-delightfully provided by Northern).

---

One such experience which has contributed to my dislike for these trains was a journey I made quite some time ago between Preston and Blackpool North. Although the journey itself wasn't long, it felt way longer than it should have because of how unpleasant it was.

For a start, the seating was awful. The ridiculously low, worn-out seats were arranged all facing in one direction, with a very crowded 3+2 layout. This made for a very restricted half an hour, especially as I was wedged up against a wall without a window on one of the rows of three seats.

Furthermore, the train itself looked appallingly cleaned and maintained. The floor beneath my seat was sticky and a thick layer of dust caked the window ledges and the back of the seat directly in front of me, whilst what looked to be corroding screws rattled away presumably struggling to hold the seats together as the train sped through the Lancashire countryside.

If I'm being honest, I'd probably put it up there on one of the worst train journeys I've ever been on. It just shows how one extraordinarily bad experience can worsen your opinion on something (in this case, by making me dislike the trains even more).

---

Conversely, I've had a few odd mildly pleasant journeys on Class 150's. I find Transport for Wales' Class 150's much nicer than Northern's, and I much prefer a Northern Class 150 with Chapman(?) seats arranged in bays of four or six, as opposed to the horrible low seats as aforementioned! Better still, I prefer a Northern Class 150 that doesn't turn up and instead what turns up is a Class 156 or even Class 142.

 

[krus_aragon]

(Speaking in the context of ATW/TFW stock)

I'm quite happy to have a 150 on a stopping or branch line service. Going full-whack on a mainline I find them too noisy for comfort on longer journeys.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

The Class 150 I'm pretty certain was the first ever DMU I caught from Preston to Blackpool North (when on route from Oxford with Mum or Mum and family).This was nearly 25 years ago!

If I'm honest, depending where you sit it can be noisy.

Personally, I think these are still rock-solid reliable trains. Plus many sound very healthy for a train of around 35 years old. I'm struggling to remember a delay on one.

On the 06/10/17, I was probably one of a few that was pleased to have one on the 14:49 from Birmingham New Street to Worcester Foregate Street (first time entering Worcester It was as well). It was a 170 on the 26/02/18 (it was booked for a 170 on Mondays only). Both were 2-car trains.

I will say though that 170's are an improvement over 150's though.

They seem to accelerate a bit faster than 170's.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

I've never liked Class 150's. I've always found them uncomfortable, cramped and by no fault of the trains themselves, (mostly) dirty (but that isn't a surprise really as a majority of my Class 150 experiences were not-so-delightfully provided by Northern).

---

One such experience which has contributed to my dislike for these trains was a journey I made quite some time ago between Preston and Blackpool North. Although the journey itself wasn't long, it felt way longer than it should have because of how unpleasant it was.

For a start, the seating was awful. The ridiculously low, worn-out seats were arranged all facing in one direction, with a very crowded 3+2 layout. This made for a very restricted half an hour, especially as I was wedged up against a wall without a window on one of the rows of three seats.

Furthermore, the train itself looked appallingly cleaned and maintained. The floor beneath my seat was sticky and a thick layer of dust caked the window ledges and the back of the seat directly in front of me, whilst what looked to be corroding screws rattled away presumably struggling to hold the seats together as the train sped through the Lancashire countryside.

If I'm being honest, I'd probably put it up there on one of the worst train journeys I've ever been on. It just shows how one extraordinarily bad experience can worsen your opinion on something (in this case, by making me dislike the trains even more).

---

Conversely, I've had a few odd mildly pleasant journeys on Class 150's. I find Transport for Wales' Class 150's much nicer than Northern's, and I much prefer a Northern Class 150 with Chapman(?) seats arranged in bays of four or six, as opposed to the horrible low seats as aforementioned! Better still, I prefer a Northern Class 150 that doesn't turn up and instead what turns up is a Class 156 or even Class 142.

I think Arriva did a pretty good job of internally refreshing the 150/2s in Wales, just 2 years before they were due to leave the franchise

View attachment 67214 View attachment 67215

My last one of Class 150 trip was on the 23/01/19 (14:46 from Cardiff Central to Dingle Road instead of the 14:16 which was cancelled due to either the train for that service having broken down, a train fault or a broken down train).

The table seat at the drivers cab end of the passenger I sat in - gives you added safety (meaning you can sit at a table and get the drivers attention if you need to but when stationary)!

 

[py_megapixel]

Thanks to where I have travelled at exactly what time, I can give my opinion on what I believe to be most of the class 150 interiors in service today.

First Great Western - rather nice at first, but quickly became dirty and unpleasant.

Great Western Railway - very nice, considering that we're looking at 30-year-old rolling stock

Arriva Trains Wales - OK, but dated. The only ones I've been on to have tables between the bays of facing seats

London Midland: fairly comfortable (albeit worn) seats, but that awful garish green colour scheme

SercoAbellio Northern: Probably the worst. Ugly seat covers, not maintained or cleaned properly. Everything discoloured and covered in a layer of dirt.

Arriva Northern - It annoys me that they have kept the seat configurations of so many previous operators and not decided on a standard 2+2. It's nice, if a bit brightly lit, but probably won't hold up well.

As for noise, yes they are noisy, but I personally find the high-pitched screech of a Pacer far more disturbing than the low rumble of a Sprinter.

The bit where I speculate, not working on the railways, is that just because they are technically 70mph DMUs, they shouldn't really be on long 70mph runs down busy mainlines. They are fine on branch lines where the stations are close together or the speed limit is low.

All sprinters suffer also from chronic lack of legroom for tall people.

 

[Harpers Tate]

I have nothing but dislike for 150s. In my opinion these are the worst trains Northern have, including the Pacer fleet. I haven't ever used a Wales one and that interior photo suggests they did make the best of what they had. Somehow it seems unlikely that "cram-'em-in" Northern will ever be so generous.

Part of the "trouble" is that - as with pretty much anything else - they get misused. A two+ hour journey which ought to be provided by something far more comfortable, ends up being one of these things. Such was my experience a few years ago in GWR-land where a service from Bristol to Penzance (I believe) was a 2-car 150. I boarded at Exeter and by the time we got to Liskeard, I had totally had enough and alighted to wait for the HST 40 minutes behind.

Northern have been known to use them on Leeds <> Lincoln (and Nottingham, maybe) and probably on Leeds - Carlisle. Not suitable IMO.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

I think GWR were very fortunate (and probably are delighted for passengers) that long-distance routes that were frequently worked by a 150 will be worked (and are being worked by) much more suitable Class 158's and 4-coach HST's!

 

[Sprinter107]

Each to their own. I've liked the 150s ever since I first ride on one. I always favoured the 150/1. I've worked them for years, and very rarely had any problems with them. They're good workhorses, and still working hard after 34 years.
As the body shells are more or less identical to 317, 318, 319, 320, 321, 322 etc, shouldnt they also be in the firing line ?

 

[Bantamzen]

I have nothing but dislike for 150s. In my opinion these are the worst trains Northern have, including the Pacer fleet. I haven't ever used a Wales one and that interior photo suggests they did make the best of what they had. Somehow it seems unlikely that "cram-'em-in" Northern will ever be so generous.

Part of the "trouble" is that - as with pretty much anything else - they get misused. A two+ hour journey which ought to be provided by something far more comfortable, ends up being one of these things. Such was my experience a few years ago in GWR-land where a service from Bristol to Penzance (I believe) was a 2-car 150. I boarded at Exeter and by the time we got to Liskeard, I had totally had enough and alighted to wait for the HST 40 minutes behind.

Northern have been known to use them on Leeds <> Lincoln (and Nottingham, maybe) and probably on Leeds - Carlisle. Not suitable IMO.

Its worth noting that when they were first built they were designed, and used on routes like Leeds-Nottingham. The fact that they still today operate long distance routes is in no small part a result of years of the imposition of 'zero growth' on the Northern franchise. Now that the 195s are starting to make their way into service, then over time the franchise can start to replace 150s with a mixture of 155/156/158/195s on longer distance services, with the 150s aimed at replacing 142/144s as they come out of service. That's not to say that 150s won't still find their way onto the longer services, but I expect in time this will become less of an issue.

 

[Harpers Tate]

As the body shells are more or less identical to 317, 318, 319, 320, 321, 322 etc, shouldnt they also be in the firing line ?

Yes, indeed. Well, except for the apalling noise levels the 150s users "enjoy".

 

[AM9]

Each to their own. I've liked the 150s ever since I first ride on one. I always favoured the 150/1. I've worked them for years, and very rarely had any problems with them. They're good workhorses, and still working hard after 34 years.
As the body shells are more or less identical to 317, 318*, 319, 320*, 321, 322* etc, shouldn't they also be in the firing line ?

No, not at all. Maybe the 317s are getting a bit tatty, but the 319s and 321s are quieter at 100mph than 150s at half that speed. They were OK in the '80s and '90s but the noisy marine engine and inadequate sound insulation make them a very noisy and vibration-prone ride. MKIII DMUs don't need to be that bad. The engines on Pacers are much smoother and quieter yet they can still run up to the same 75mph maximum as the 150s.
* I've not travelled on those trains, but I assume that the 318 experience is much like the 317s and the 320/322 like the 321s.

 

[sd0733]

It's a shame that there arent enough to have made them all 4 car as a 150/1 sandwiching a 150/2 with 1 prm toilet and 1 small toilet per 4 car with a refurb similar to how tfw are doing theirs with PRM mods, USB sockets and 2+2 seats.
Apart from.the poor noise insulation and the rattly doors and windows most of.the problems are the fault of the ancient interior and no doubt an element of poor maintenance on the Northern fleet, the difference between a Tfw/gwr refurb and a Northern set is massive and it.would be a travesty if the first withdrawals were to be the Tfw units when they are replaced.

 

[DarloRich]

There is some wibble bordering on hyperbole posted on this thread! The class 150's are good, solid, simple trains. Most of the issues could be fixed with a decent internal refurb.

 

[ed1971]

Each to their own. I've liked the 150s ever since I first ride on one. I always favoured the 150/1. I've worked them for years, and very rarely had any problems with them. They're good workhorses, and still working hard after 34 years.
As the body shells are more or less identical to 317, 318, 319, 320, 321, 322 etc, shouldnt they also be in the firing line ?

They are similar but I don't mind 319s. They don't have a noisy 1960s marine engine under the floor, come in 4 fixed carriages, so plenty of room and (apart from the wheel adhesion issue) are pretty fast units. With a 150 there are the double negatives of the noisy engine and claustrophobic interior.

 

[Sprinter107]

There is some wibble bordering on hyperbole posted on this thread! The class 150's are good, solid, simple trains. Most of the issues could be fixed with a decent internal refurb.

Absolutely 100% in agreement. You've summed it up perfectly.

 

[PHILIPE]

They are similar but I don't mind 319s. They don't have a noisy 1960s marine engine under the floor, come in 4 fixed carriages, so plenty of room and (apart from the wheel adhesion issue) are pretty fast units. With a 150 there are the double negatives of the noisy engine and claustrophobic interior.

They will have when they become 769s

 

[ed1971]

They will have when they become 769s

The engines being put in 769s are more modern. They are only fitted in the outer carriages anyway.

 

[Strathclyder]

As the body shells are more or less identical to 317, 318, 319, 320, 321, 322 etc, shouldnt they also be in the firing line ?

Given that the 318s & 320s (both the original /3s and ex-321 /4s) have both had comprehensive refurbishment programmes completed within the last 2 years (most of the 320/4s having it done as part of their conversion from 321s), it'd make little if any sense to bin them now. I'll concide that the 318s are now over 30 years old & the 320s are in their late 20s (some /4s may now be 30), but both classes are good for another decade of service at minimum. Good, solid units.

Since we're talking about overall comfort levels, I find the 318s & 320s to be the most comfortable MUs in the S.R fleet in this regard, with a personal preference for the 318s. Granted, the layout of some seats lack the legroom a 6ft+ streak-o-misery like me requries for optimum levels of comfort and the motor coach is naturally noiser than the driving trailers, but I can't fault the seats themselves as far as posture, padding and comfort is concerned.

 

[supervc-10]

A well refurbished 150 is fine, but no better than that. I'm 6'2 and a broad shouldered rugby player, so I do struggle a bit in the airline seats many of them have. But at least they don't buck around like a Pacer does!

They are definitely next in the firing line though, and rightly so. Nasty pollution out the top, slow, uncomfortable, and loud, they're not ideal these days. At least their electric cousins are a lot quieter and don't have ancient diesels spewing NOx and particulates all over the place! In an ideal world a magic wand would be waved to replace all the old Sprinter stock with cleaner modern units, but that's not going to happen any time soon.

 

[Dougal2345]

I always feel vexed when one of these turns up to provide the 'express' Southampton-Portsmouth service. On an electrified line of course, the nice electric Desiros are relegated to the stoppers, and the only way to get to your destination quickly is the 150.

Last Saturday lunchtime, with a football match looming at Fratton, I think the crowds on Southampton P1 were fairly vexed too when a 2-car unit pootled in - thanks FGW.

 

[O L Leigh]

I’ve never been a great fan of these units and always thought that the Cl151s would have given a better passenger environment. However, I feel I need to correct some of the understanding about the Cl150/1 seating.

From new these had the same standard 3+2 outer suburban seating layout that you can still find in the Cl317 fleet (Cl317/6 and /7 excepted). This still wasn’t brilliant but it was a lot better than the hateful “sardine can” seating arrangement they gained during the early-mid 1990s that aped the standard C150/2 interior that appeared from new.

 

[chorleyjeff]

After another contributor started 'The Horror of Pacers' thread, I felt that on balance it was time someone should start this one about 150s.
I will make no bones about it, I have always detested the things from new, especially the 150/1s. The excessive engine noise levels are horrendous and they are claustrophobic sweat-boxes in summer. In fact the claustrophobic nature of the units and the noisy engines causes me too much stress and anxiety.

Now that the Pacers are being withdrawn, I am going to have to give up rail travel, except when travelling to the Liverpool area, (somehow the 319s don't seem quite as bad).

It is ironic that Northern have launched a drive to create an Autism friendly railway, (https://media.northernrailway.co.uk/news/northern-helps-launch-uks-first-autism-friendly-railway) whilst at the same time the trains I feel at ease travelling on (because they are light and airy and I don't feel trapped) are being withdrawn.

In any case lets have you views on the 150s...

When they replaced the phase 1 DMUs on Blackpool - Manchester the quality of travel improved dramatically. The old DMUs were slow, noisy and with fumes in the passenger cabin. They were horrible to travel in and hugely worse than the loco hauled carriages they replaced. But the seats in the 150s were not comfortable for tall people like me.

 

[YorksDMU]

The 150’s have always reminded me, to an extent, of the class 105 Cravens power cars with those wide window pillars, fumes and rattles. Of course with these you don’t have any chance to take refuge in a trailer car.
But they largely get on with their work, and, in general, ride better than a Pacer. The big problem is, of course, that all the 1980’s units are aging at the same time, and all should have been replaced a good ten or more years ago.
I will grit my teeth and endure them until any replacements can be introduced in the years to come.