The rapid decline of Bournemouth’s Yellow Buses network

[miklcct]

I have to say, that is a rather petty statement from Yellow Buses. They still run the 1 to Poole, despite the M1 and M2 running every few minutes. So the stuff about not being competitive doesn't wash. They just need to plan services better!

The 1 to Poole is now merely a token service which enable the claim "Yellow Buses still serve Poole" to be made.

 

[nesw]

I’d expect that the current owners would be considering their exit route from the business and the Bus Service Improvement Plan might provide a good opportunity to do that.

 

[johncrossley]

I have to say, that is a rather petty statement from Yellow Buses. They still run the 1 to Poole, despite the M1 and M2 running every few minutes. So the stuff about not being competitive doesn't wash. They just need to plan services better!

Is Go-Ahead supposed to behave in the spirit, if not the letter, of the National Bus Strategy? It sounds like their partnership (if there is one) isn't operating properly and there is still the deregulation mentality.

 

[PTR 444]

I have to say, that is a rather petty statement from Yellow Buses. They still run the 1 to Poole, despite the M1 and M2 running every few minutes. So the stuff about not being competitive doesn't wash. They just need to plan services better!

The 1 takes a unique route between Poole and Bournemouth avoiding Ashley Road, therefore it could be seen as not being competitive with the m1/m2. Also it avoids Poole bus station completely and serves the quay/old town instead.

 

[Megafuss]

Is Go-Ahead supposed to behave in the spirit, if not the letter, of the National Bus Strategy? It sounds like their partnership (if there is one) isn't operating properly and there is still the deregulation mentality.

It was Yellow Buses that chose the cut the frequency of the 3 between Westbourne and Royal Bournemouth Hospital. Morebus appear to have filled that gap with a better service.

 

[johncrossley]

It was Yellow Buses that chose the cut the frequency of the 3 between Westbourne and Royal Bournemouth Hospital. Morebus appear to have filled that gap with a better service.

But I thought they were supposed to be in a partnership? That kind of language doesn't sound like much of a partnership. A partnership implies a unified network with common ticketing. The National Bus Strategy document singled out this region for the lack of cooperation between the two operators.

 

[Megafuss]

But I thought they were supposed to be in a partnership? That kind of language doesn't sound like much of a partnership. A partnership implies a unified network with common ticketing. The National Bus Strategy document singled out this region for the lack of cooperation between the two operators.

There is a common ticket. Its called "Getting About".

 

[johncrossley]

There is a common ticket. Its called "Getting About".

Almost everywhere has some kind of joint ticket available. If that is all that is required, ticketing wouldn't come in for such criticism.

 

[M803UYA]

It was Yellow Buses that chose the cut the frequency of the 3 between Westbourne and Royal Bournemouth Hospital. Morebus appear to have filled that gap with a better service.

Pre 2017 the 3 never ran beyond Bournemouth Square, so the extension of that is a recent innovation.
Whilst the announcement might be seen as petty, Yellows have left the highly congested part of Castle Lane to Go South Coast and instead focused on a faster end to end journey time to the Hospital. The route retains much of Charminster in the process, so continues to serve the bulk of the customers and avoids a congestion hotspot.

The m1 now has to travel the full length of route and suffer the traffic congestion along Castle Lane which will impact the reliability of the service. Much has been invested by Go South Coast in a combined 3.5 minute frequency between Poole and Bournemouth - first bus to the stop gets the passengers which was always their intention. Extending the m1 to the Hospital was one of the things which would disrupt that.

Prior to the splitting off of 1b/1c from Poole to Christchurch there was c£1.2m of revenue from customers crossing over which was why my boss at the time always balked at cutting costs by withdrawing the bus route. His successor in 2015 did just that and started the contraction of the bus side of the business. In one stroke the m2 gained the customers.

Historically the bus network wasn't what made Yellow Buses it's profits - that came from the 032/035 National Express contract. Losing the first of those in 2016 started the domino effect where they looked to replace the lost revenue by doing things to the bus network and trying to develop a coaching operation. Now they're doing megabus (which always was on offer, but not allowed by Nat ex under the terms of the contract) and have the 035 back from Lucketts (who always wanted the route to themselves!) they're in a very good financial position.

The management team running Yellows must have an exit strategy where they'll sell on the operation, no doubt making themselves money in the process. But that is what taking a risk is generally about. Question is who'd be the purchaser? Stagecoach have no interests in the area.....

 

[baza585]

Pre 2017 the 3 never ran beyond Bournemouth Square, so the extension of that is a recent innovation.
Whilst the announcement might be seen as petty, Yellows have left the highly congested part of Castle Lane to Go South Coast and instead focused on a faster end to end journey time to the Hospital. The route retains much of Charminster in the process, so continues to serve the bulk of the customers and avoids a congestion hotspot.
The m1 now has to travel the full length of route and suffer the traffic congestion along Castle Lane which will impact the reliability of the service. Much has been invested by Go South Coast in a combined 3.5 minute frequency between Poole and Bournemouth - first bus to the stop gets the passengers which was always their intention. Extending the m1 to the Hospital was one of the things which would disrupt that.
Prior to the splitting off of 1b/1c from Poole to Christchurch there was c£1.2m of revenue from customers crossing over which was why my boss at the time always balked at cutting costs by withdrawing the bus route. His successor in 2015 did just that and started the contraction of the bus side of the business. In one stroke the m2 gained the customers.
Historically the bus network wasn't what made Yellow Buses it's profits - that came from the 032/035 National Express contract. Losing the first of those in 2016 started the domino effect where they looked to replace the lost revenue by doing things to the bus network and trying to develop a coaching operation. Now they're doing megabus (which always was on offer, but not allowed by Nat ex under the terms of the contract) and have the 035 back from Lucketts (who always wanted the route to themselves!) they're in a very good financial position.
The management team running Yellows must have an exit strategy where they'll sell on the operation, no doubt making themselves money in the process. But that is what taking a risk is generally about. Question is who'd be the purchaser? Stagecoach have no interests in the area.....

Clearly GSC think that extending m1 to RBH is a good move. Like you, I disagree. The m1 service has fallen apart more than usual in recent days, and the extension to the hospital hasn't helped due to congestion at Cooper Dean and both bits of Castle Lane. The Yellows 3x avoids some of the delays but at the same time doesn't serve Castlepoint (pros and cons I guess).

I estimate that the extension has increased the m1 PVR by 3; the layovers at the hospital simply aren't long enough for service recovery (contrast with the Yellows 3x new timetable). The m1 now runs in bunches of 2 every 15 minutes for much of the day, not helped by very leisurely driver changes at the station!

The wording of the Yellows press release is interesting ("we can't compete with a big company like GSC"). I suspect GSC's strategy is part of their positioning for when the BSIP takes effect, but in the meantime there are journeys missing on m1 because GSC are short of drivers!

Yellows still have the 5/5a Kinson route and the 1/1a/1b Christchurch route (albeit there is competion with GSC on the 1 variant) which load well. The have lost the 3 but the 3x is a decent attempt to keep much of the hospital traffic offering a direct journey rather than plodding around Charminster and Castlepoint. I wish it well. That said I never understood why Yellows didn't persevere with running the 1s to Poole because they seemed to be doing OK (many passengers (like me) waited for a Yellows decker rather than cram on the m1/2 E200MMCs which appear to have totally inadequate rear suspension except when lightly loaded (the wonders of lightweight buses!).

I have no insight into Yellows finances other than published data but they seem to be doing OK. I think it is likely the management may want out at some point, but as you say, who would buy them in the teeth of competition from GSC? First perhaps?

 

[M803UYA]

Clearly GSC think that extending m1 to RBH is a good move. Like you, I disagree. The m1 service has fallen apart more than usual in recent days, and the extension to the hospital hasn't helped due to congestion at Cooper Dean and both bits of Castle Lane. The Yellows 3x avoids some of the delays but at the same time doesn't serve Castlepoint (pros and cons I guess).

I estimate that the extension has increased the m1 PVR by 3; the layovers at the hospital simply aren't long enough for service recovery (contrast with the Yellows 3x new timetable). The m1 now runs in bunches of 2 every 15 minutes for much of the day, not helped by very leisurely driver changes at the station!

The wording of the Yellows press release is interesting ("we can't compete with a big company like GSC"). I suspect GSC's strategy is part of their positioning for when the BSIP takes effect, but in the meantime there are journeys missing on m1 because GSC are short of drivers!

Yellows still have the 5/5a Kinson route and the 1/1a/1b Christchurch route (albeit there is competion with GSC on the 1 variant) which load well. The have lost the 3 but the 3x is a decent attempt to keep much of the hospital traffic offering a direct journey rather than plodding around Charminster and Castlepoint. I wish it well. That said I never understood why Yellows didn't persevere with running the 1s to Poole because they seemed to be doing OK (many passengers (like me) waited for a Yellows decker rather than cram on the m1/2 E200MMCs which appear to have totally inadequate rear suspension except when lightly loaded (the wonders of lightweight buses!).

I have no insight into Yellows finances other than published data but they seem to be doing OK. I think it is likely the management may want out at some point, but as you say, who would buy them in the teeth of competition from GSC? First perhaps?

Historically Yellows were under Transdev/RATP who were a well backed organisation. The losses Yellows was making saw RATP offload the operation. That's not to say one of other big 5 groups wouldn't take it on. Someone like Stagecoach could eliminate a lot of the head office overheads (c£1m) without withdrawing a single journey on the timetable. Yellows know their constraints so have developed alternate, very solid, income streams to compensate. Those alternate streams wouldn't be of interest to the likes of Stagecoach but Go Ahead wouldn't take them on - likewise any well backed operation would send a message 'we're not going anywhere so do what you want, it's stalemate'.

Go Ahead aren't going to force Yellows out of business - that'd be giving rise to Competition and Markets Authority sanctions - but they can nibble at the edges. An extension of the m2 to Christchurch (which wouldn't be visible until a timetable change given it's registered to run there on Christmas Day) would be one of the two nuclear acts that'd prompt a Yellow Buses response. Historically, Go South Coast (or Wilts & Dorset) have the bulk of the customers in the Poole (to Bournemouth) conurbation, and Yellows the bulk of customers in the east of the area (Southbourne/Christchurch). The m1/m2 extensions beyond Bournemouth when it was created took that market share away from Yellows.

The Yellows 3 has been historically loss making, but regarded as a prime corridor which they wouldn't cede to a competitor. When I worked for them, we allocated Optare Versa/Tempo vehicles with a very high specification interior as we pushed quality. The January 2017 changes (which I had to make work after returning to the business) diluted that significantly as new bus purchases prior to it were on a route basis with sufficient to cover a service. The pre 2017 1b/1c for instance needed 24 double deckers which were either the new interior spec, or refurbished to it and allocated to the service. The replacement 2017 service which was parts of 1b/1c to Bournemouth from Poole and the short '2' workings to Castlepoint joined up with the 3 needed 27 buses to work the service. We didn't have 27 of one type of bus to put on the route.

I have to say, as someone who'd left Yellows in 2015 then returned a year later that there was no proper planning of the January 2017 network - and that basic planning (creating a timetable, establishing vehicle workings etc) was conducted by unskilled (but enthusiastic) driving staff seconded to the Commercial Office which was then run by the ex General Manager of Hedingham Buses who joined in November 2015. The other scheduler left in April 2016 having been poached by Go South Coast!

I've not returned to Bournemouth for some years now, but I'm not surprised at all that the m1 extension is, as predicted, causing operational issues. The September timetable change from Go South Coast will see tinkering of the peak hours times under the normal guise of 'improving reliability'. Go South Coast can't now withdraw the extension as parts of Charminster and the section of Castle Lane, from Broadway Tavern, would then have no through link to the hospital. Clever thinking from Yellows making the best of what they've got and keeping 75% of the existing customers.

 

[aliceh]

I've not seen how the M1s are running lately with the extension, but if it's causing issues I can see a possibility of an alternating service - one bus to Castlepoint, one bus to the hospital, etc - on the M1 just to help deal with it. I'm also now wondering how secure the futures of the 14 and 15 to the hospital are. I imagine, given the length and complexity of the route, they might be eager to cut the 14 back and say 'transfer to an m1 at Castlepoint' (but that's entirely speculation on my part).

 

[miklcct]

I've not returned to Bournemouth for some years now, but I'm not surprised at all that the m1 extension is, as predicted, causing operational issues.

It will be easier for headway recovery purpose if the terminus is at the hospital rather than at Castlepoint, as a "missed departure" can be easily sent through the A338 empty to catch up the delay.

 

[M803UYA]

It will be easier for headway recovery purpose if the terminus is at the hospital rather than at Castlepoint, as a "missed departure" can be easily sent through the A338 empty to catch up the delay.

Depending of course whether the A338 is not stacked with traffic. As it sometimes is. Little to no regulation took place at the Castlepoint end of the m1 - in my observational experiences at Poole Bus Station it was there that the regulating of the service took place it being the departure point. It was normal for m1/m2s to bunch when I lived and worked in the area.
That would surely have been made worse by the section beyond Castlepoint down to Cooper Dean Roundabout. I can't definitively say whether or not that's the case as I'm not there anymore, but certainly any timetable I'd have written would have assumed the road to be heavily congested and planned to handle most of it....

 

[baza585]

Depending of course whether the A338 is not stacked with traffic. As it sometimes is. Little to no regulation took place at the Castlepoint end of the m1 - in my observational experiences at Poole Bus Station it was there that the regulating of the service took place it being the departure point. It was normal for m1/m2s to bunch when I lived and worked in the area.
That would surely have been made wors

e by the section beyond Castlepoint down to Cooper Dean Roundabout. I can't definitively say whether or not that's the case as I'm not there anymore, but certainly any timetable I'd have written would have assumed the road to be heavily congested and planned to handle most of it....

There is regulation at the Poole end of M1/2 but nowhere else AFAIK.

I have not seen any evidence of morebus running dead down the Wessex Way to take up service at Lansdowne, sensible though this would be. Yellows do this from time to time though as their layovers are longer at RBH there is less need

The 1 takes a unique route between Poole and Bournemouth avoiding Ashley Road, therefore it could be seen as not being competitive with the m1/m2. Also it avoids Poole bus station completely and serves the quay/old town instead.

The 1 route is much faster than m1/2. It is my route of choice for that and because it has proper buses on it, not the stretched e200mmc with little or no rear suspension when well loaded

 

[PTR 444]

I've not seen how the M1s are running lately with the extension, but if it's causing issues I can see a possibility of an alternating service - one bus to Castlepoint, one bus to the hospital, etc - on the M1 just to help deal with it. I'm also now wondering how secure the futures of the 14 and 15 to the hospital are. I imagine, given the length and complexity of the route, they might be eager to cut the 14 back and say 'transfer to an m1 at Castlepoint' (but that's entirely speculation on my part).

The 14 for a large chunk of its life ran from Poole to West Howe (later Kinson), and was only extended to the Hospital in 2018 when Yellow Buses withdrew their R4 (previously 2a & 2b) route between Kinson and RB Hospital. Since then, Yellows have re-extended the 2 to Kinson (and Bearwood), meaning there are now 4 buses per hour along that corridor. If the 14 was cut back to Castlepoint, the only places to lose a direct hospital link would be Ensbury Park and West Howe, so this could make some sense.

The 15 is a route which seems to just about hang on despite only having an hourly frequency and most journeys to places on this route being quicker via other services. I could see the section west of Bournemouth University being withdrawn and the section east of there replaced with an extension of the Unibus U2 route, since that mostly parallels the 15 at the Poole end. Also I believe the 15 is the only bus service within BCP which does not have any exclusive sections of route.

 

[miklcct]

Also I believe the 15 is the only bus service within BCP which does not share any of its route with other services.

There are numerous routes which have their exclusive sections, such as 2 in Townsend, 6 between Merley and Wimborne, etc.

 

[Titfield]

Historically the bus network wasn't what made Yellow Buses it's profits - that came from the 032/035 National Express contract. Losing the first of those in 2016 started the domino effect where they looked to replace the lost revenue by doing things to the bus network and trying to develop a coaching operation. Now they're doing megabus (which always was on offer, but not allowed by Nat ex under the terms of the contract) and have the 035 back from Lucketts (who always wanted the route to themselves!) they're in a very good financial position.

Business that rely on peripheral activities for the main source of their profits are skating on very thin ice indeed as usually the peripheral business is more subject to "highs and lows" and risk of a competitor wiping out the peripheral business than the core business.

Perhaps the time has come for there to be a TfD organisation to co-ordinate bus activity across the conurbation.

 

[aliceh]

There are numerous routes which have their exclusive sections, such as 2 in Townsend, 6 between Merley and Wimborne, etc.

I think they meant the other way round - the 15 does not have any sections of route where it's exclusive: running with the 14 to Westover Retail Park, the 13 down Wimborne Road, 17 past the University and down most of Alder Road, then a small section parallel with the U2, then the m2 all the way to Poole.

Although that small, quiet section at the bottom of Alder Road doesn't get served by the U2 outside of term time so arguably for a good part of the year the 15 does have a unique section. But barely.

 

[M803UYA]

Business that rely on peripheral activities for the main source of their profits are skating on very thin ice indeed as usually the peripheral business is more subject to "highs and lows" and risk of a competitor wiping out the peripheral business than the core business.

Perhaps the time has come for there to be a TfD organisation to co-ordinate bus activity across the conurbation.

Those side incomes have taken years to mature - starting with an MOT testing service for outside vehicles in 2011. The coaching side was solely dependent upon National Express for it's income, which was at least £1m of the turnover by 2016. Losing that created a domino effect through the business. The struggle to get the business making money was what did for the previous managing director in 2017.

It's often said an accountant knows the value of everything and the price of nothing. That was certainly true in this case. You had lots of accountancy people and few people in technical roles (like scheduling) with those being taken by seconded driving staff. Those people were very enthusiastic (one requirement for such work!) but they didn't have the technical knowledge to ensure vehicle workings were sufficiently robust to handle Bournemouth's traffic. You had timetables being created by these people with crazies such as differing running times over common sections of route.

Fast forward 6 years and the company is not solely dependent on one income stream - it has several contributing to the turnover. Megabus would have been an option, in 2017 but National Express didn't permit contractors to also work megabus. Doing so would have resulted in losing the 035. So this avenue was denied to Yellows. It's notable that the minute the 035 went to Lucketts (who'd wanted it for years) a megabus operation commenced. The 035 has returned as Lucketts can't resource it and if I believe the UKBuses fleetlisting, some brand new Levantes are awaiting delivery.

The coaching operation on it's own might have the basis of a standalone business, if the management elected to sell the bus operations to someone like Stagecoach. Ordinarily, they don't do general coaching work as they view it as non core.

 

[aliceh]

If Yellow Buses are getting the 035 back, does that mean they'll have to end the Megabus working? Or do National Express no longer require that/allow existing contracts to continue?

 

[M803UYA]

If Yellow Buses are getting the 035 back, does that mean they'll have to end the Megabus working? Or do National Express no longer require that/allow existing contracts to continue?

Pure guessing on my part, but if National Express want the 035 covering because there aren't any drivers at Lucketts then Yellows might have the whip hand here and be able to negotiate. What was an issue in 2016/7 may no longer be one.

 

[markymark2000]

The coaching operation on it's own might have the basis of a standalone business, if the management elected to sell the bus operations to someone like Stagecoach. Ordinarily, they don't do general coaching work as they view it as non core.

Coaches is a standalone business, incorporated in August 2020. Has it's own ops licence too.

YELLOW COACHES LTD overview - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

YELLOW COACHES LTD - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity

find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk

 

[M803UYA]

Coaches is a standalone business, incorporated in August 2020. Has it's own ops licence too.

YELLOW COACHES LTD overview - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

YELLOW COACHES LTD - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity

find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk

I knew the company had established a separate unit - it ran under the coaching manager who was also the training manager prior to this. Essentially all it did was the National Express work with dedicated supervisory staff. Going back many years there was a long established coach wing of the company which undertook general coaching work. The demise of Shamrock & Rambler saw this side expand into National Express diagrams when they bought Dorset Travel Services from National Express.
It was unusual in being an 'old established' bus company still working Nat Ex diagrams - beyond Yorkshire Traction, Go North East and East Yorkshire there were few other firms on the network but a lot of independent operations.

 

[James H]

I see that Yellow Buses has joined Morebus in offering Tap-on, Tap-off pay as you go fares - with a multi-operator daily price cap of £6

This compares to £5.80 for a paper Getting About ticket or £5 for a smartcard ticket

 

[Tatty2008]

Just heard on BBC Radio Solent that Yellow Buses have gone into administration. No further details as yet

 

[Titfield]

Just heard on BBC Radio Solent that Yellow Buses have gone into administration. No further details as yet

Yellow Buses has gone into administration

YELLOW Buses has gone into administration.

www.bournemouthecho.co.uk

 

[James H]

Just after I spent £20 on their 120th anniversary offer of half price packs of five day tickets ...

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yellow Buses has gone into administration

YELLOW Buses has gone into administration.

www.bournemouthecho.co.uk

Not a surprise - people in the industry that I trust were saying that they were in major financial trouble.

 

[RELL6L]

Not surprising I guess. Not big enough to have sufficient financial resources to weather difficult times and not supported by a big group. Probably no great money spinning routes - if there were Go Ahead would compete.

I would think the administrators would find a buyer for the business though, even if it is £1 without any debt. There seems to be a reasonable fleet, not too old, and nowadays you aren't worried about taking on a workforce with underlying redundancy risk - the danger is too few staff not too many.

The Bournemouth Echo article says:
Yellow Buses, which trades as Bournemouth Transport Limited, has been struggling like all bus companies thanks to the “challenges” of COVID and the lifestyle habit changes which have followed – such as people working from home.
The statement added: “Negotiations with a large national operator have entered the final stages and we hope to be able to conclude within a matter of days.

So who might the 'large national operator' be?
Arriva - nowhere near and no ambitions whatsoever - no
First - close geographically to the west and to not far to the east - would make sense - but not shown any signs of ambition either
Stagecoach - close geographically to the east, have recently still been taking some opportunities (eg Arriva Guildford) but you get the impression they are would be pretty wary
National Express - nowhere near and have limited their ambitions - unless there is a good fit for coaching perhaps?
Go Ahead - the obvious buyer but the big conundrum - here we have one of the few places where there is still genuine on-the-road competition. Would the CMA stop Go Ahead trying to buy even if it resulted in a virtual closure of the business? Are they that stupid....? Even Go Ahead have been reining in their ambitions a bit recently, service cuts in the north east, retrenchment in East Anglia.
Transdev - I can't see it - a long way from their patch

More interesting times......