The Times: Labour considering cuts to Restoring Your Railway and dropping HS2 Euston

[Ivor]

I'm surprised you were even allowed to get it for free. There was a clampdown a few years back after lots of people were wasting NHS time and money by insisting on prescriptions for paracetamol. Maybe this was just in Scotland where everyone gets free prescriptions.

Sorry why surprised?

If prescriptions are available ‘free’ & at the end of the day nothing is free he didn’t even ask if I could afford it which I can.

I won’t go into the cliche of what I paid in of 55 years of work that’s an aside, I was so embarrassed I toddled off to Boots to buy it.

Only getting a diagnosis did he suggest the medication, in fairness he did scribble it on a scrap of paper for me to show the pharmacist so I could purchase it, he probably thought an old fool like me needed him to do so.

 

[Busaholic]

The state issues the bus passes and reimburses the bus operators, which particular department of the state is responsible makes no real difference.

Local government has, for the most part, little by way of actual revenue raising powers and exists primarily as a delivery body for central government policy.
I don't really think trying to draw divisions between local government and central government truly reflects the reality of how government works in the UK.

The passes are issued by travel concessionary authorities (TCAs) which are, in effect, local authorities, who may add extra benefits for their localities to the bare bones of the scheme. How they decide to reimburse the bus operators is up to them, within the wording of the relevant act, and hardly any two TCAs adopt exactly the same criteria. Therefore, I respectfully suggest that this falls outside the orbit of today's statement from the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

 

[jfollows]

I'm surprised you were even allowed to get it for free. There was a clampdown a few years back after lots of people were wasting NHS time and money by insisting on prescriptions for paracetamol. Maybe this was just in Scotland where everyone gets free prescriptions.

It’s sad to think that for some people it’s worth the time and effort to go and see a doctor to get a prescription to make something free that otherwise costs something like 60p in my local supermarket.

 

[Energy]

Yep, poorly worded by me but it must be costing a good amount of money so it has to be doubtful it will be extended, especially as much of the money is going in to the pockets of foreign owned companies.

Last announcement (17 May 2023) was £200m for £2 fares until 30th November 2024. Originally it was meant to rise to £2.50 from the end of October 2023 onwards but the rise didn't happen. As no additional money was announced beyond that, I'd assume that the increased patronage was able to cover keeping it at £2.

At ~£140m a year I can see it being prioritised and hopefully kept.

 

[Class 170101]

Bit in bold - that's not really true though -

According to this (figures from 2021) the UK spends 0.9% of GDP on Inland Infrastructure, defined as "Inland infrastructure includes road, rail, inland waterways, maritime ports and airports"

Looking at the G7 countries the figures are as follows:

Canada 0.6%
France 0.9%
Germany 0.8%
Italy 0.9%
Japan 1.1%
United Kingdom 0.9%
United States 0.5%

Even Switzerland is only 1.3% of GDP. Those above 1.5% GDP are China and the remainder are small, fast developing countries which you would expect to see higher spending at this point as their economies are developing.

Infrastructure spending as GDP share, by country| Statista

China was the country with the highest infrastructure spending for inland transport in 2021, as it made up nearly a fifth of its GDP.

www.statista.com

But how much is that in money terms. 0.5% of a very large economy compared to 1.3% of small economy could make 0.5% actually be a lot of money in actual terms.

The latest round of consultation on the Chatteris reservoir is ongoing.

Update – 30 May 2024 - Anglian Water - Fens Reservoir

Second phase public consultation for proposed reservoir in the Fens now open.

fensreservoir.co.uk

Still yet to be bult then so could still be stopped by NIMBYS

And the Sunnica solar farm on the Cambridgeshire/Suffolk border has already been given the green light.

Sunnica solar farm on Cambridgeshire-Suffolk border approved

The farm will power 172,000 homes and create 1,500 jobs during construction.

www.bbc.co.uk

Not convinced by this, I seem to recall its on arable land and whilst we have an energy crisis due to Russia and the Ukraine War and its consequences to energy prices we also have a general cost of living crisis. Was it each of Russia and Ukraine or both together that produced 1/7th of the World's grain? Surely food needs to be produced on arable land and not solar panels?

This government is not against infrastructure investment, but it is against having to pay for it.

No surprise really. However only two sources of funding private but will be recouped by its users or public recouped by taxes.

 

[43096]

Charter trains have run on the Borders railway and indeed another one is planned for October this year. Locos used were 47s which are RA6 so dispensation must have been gained for those trains to run.

Didn't the Queen have a kettle for haulage down the Borders route when it reopened?

 

[a_c_skinner]

perhaps a decision regarding Phase 2a to Crewe. ... everything north of Birmingham and OOC to Euston is mothballed indefinitely.

Fine, whatever, but don't dispose of the land for HS2 to Crewe that has been bought.

 

[43096]

Really concerned that Tavistock gets the chop. I imagine the vindictive lot will turn the knife here given they were not able to dislodge Geoffrey Cox. Labour has never been a friend of the Railways wrecked them in 48 and now they want to cut the Restoring Railways plans.

Very disappointed but hardly surprised.

It needed to be done. Choices have to be made and ditching the railway schemes makes a lot of sense given the railway's chronic inability to manage its own costs and the likely need for ongoing revenue support (not just the capital investment) for the various re-opening schemes.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

But how much is that in money terms. 0.5% of a very large economy compared to 1.3% of small economy could make 0.5% actually be a lot of money in actual terms.


Still yet to be bult then so could still be stopped by NIMBYS


Not convinced by this, I seem to recall its on arable land and whilst we have an energy crisis due to Russia and the Ukraine War and its consequences to energy prices we also have a general cost of living crisis. Was it each of Russia and Ukraine or both together that produced 1/7th of the World's grain? Surely food needs to be produced on arable land and not solar panels?

Correct it does. Also we don't have an energy crisis anymore actually its pretty remarkable how gas flows have been reorganised around the world to bring prices back to where they were pre Ukraine.

 

[Magdalia]

Still yet to be bult then so could still be stopped by NIMBYS

The FAQs on the Chatteris reservoir website says this:

This reservoir is recognised as being a strategic regional asset, so much so that it qualifies as a Nationally Significant Infrastructure Project (NSIP). This is due primarily to the volume of water it can hold. We will therefore follow the procedures set out in the Planning Act 2008 which provides the framework for how NSIPs are developed and consented.

We will apply to the Planning Inspectorate, who act on behalf of the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA), for permission to build the reservoir. The permission is called a Development Consent Order (DCO).

And one of the advantages of locating the reservoir at the proposed location is that there are very few back yards.

I expect it to be built.

Not convinced by this, I seem to recall its on arable land and whilst we have an energy crisis due to Russia and the Ukraine War and its consequences to energy prices we also have a general cost of living crisis. Was it each of Russia and Ukraine or both together that produced 1/7th of the World's grain? Surely food needs to be produced on arable land and not solar panels?

The land here is only arable with a lot of fertiliser and a lot of irrigation. Naturally it is grassland like Newmarket Racecourse. The land will go back to grass with sheep grazing on it at the same time as the solar panels are generating power.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

RDG doesn't serve any purpose in GBR so you will probably see that happen.

There will still need to be a focus group for the remaining private parts of the railway.
Some of RDG's workload will end up in GBR anyway, maybe with the same people as now.
Somebody will have to front pay negotiations with the unions, outside DfT...

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

There will still need to be a focus group for the remaining private parts of the railway.
Some of RDG's workload will end up in GBR anyway, maybe with the same people as now.
Somebody will have to front pay negotiations with the unions, outside DfT...

She should have scrapped RDG straightaway and needs to get shadow GBR setup asap and detach DfT and all its consultants from day to day meddling

 

[Morgsie]

Hasn't it been proven that cutting infrastructure is damaging long-term? Using the 2010-2015 Coalition Government as an example.

If anything we should be investing in capital projects and infrastructure, the only infrastructure I have heard announced from the new Government is housing. I believe this notion is part of Keynesian Economics, correct me if I am wrong?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Hasn't it been proven that cutting infrastructure is damaging long-term? Using the 2010-2015 Coalition Government as an example.

If anything we should be investing in capital projects and infrastructure, the only infrastructure I have heard announced from the new Government is housing. I believe this notion is part of Keynesian Economics, correct me if I am wrong?

Today was about max bad news and blame the Torys the budget in Autumn is for the good news so im pretty sure plenty of these projects will be progressing especially as they want to leverage private capital to pay for most of it.

 

[A0]

But how much is that in money terms. 0.5% of a very large economy compared to 1.3% of small economy could make 0.5% actually be a lot of money in actual terms.
[

Agreed - the GDP for the G7 per capita is here

G7 GDP per capita by country 2024 | Statista

The GDP per capita in the G7 increased in all 7 countries since 2000 except in Italy.

www.statista.com

The UK, France, Canada and Italy are all similar - but the UK has a much higher population than Canada and Italy and similar to France. So the UK is spending a similar amount to France, more than Italy and substantially more than Canada. In fact the gap with Germany is mainly going to be because Germany's population is 20% higher than the UK's.

 

[PGAT]

Hasn't it been proven that cutting infrastructure is damaging long-term? Using the 2010-2015 Coalition Government as an example.

If anything we should be investing in capital projects and infrastructure, the only infrastructure I have heard announced from the new Government is housing. I believe this notion is part of Keynesian Economics, correct me if I am wrong?

I think it's fair enough if the claims of tory spending being unfunded is true

 

[edwin_m]

Hasn't it been proven that cutting infrastructure is damaging long-term? Using the 2010-2015 Coalition Government as an example.

If anything we should be investing in capital projects and infrastructure, the only infrastructure I have heard announced from the new Government is housing. I believe this notion is part of Keynesian Economics, correct me if I am wrong?

It is if the infrastructure improves the economy by making people more productive. If the projects are chosen poorly then it's just an expensive way to keep a bunch of people in work for a few years. The secret is knowing which is which.

At least with housing there's a clear need, and it requires less skill than something like rail electrification so less likely to run into the problems the railway got itself into last decade.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There will still need to be a focus group for the remaining private parts of the railway.
Some of RDG's workload will end up in GBR anyway, maybe with the same people as now.
Somebody will have to front pay negotiations with the unions, outside DfT...

Today's announcements which made headline parts of the speech, seemed to concentrate upon those pay matters that seemed most important to the new Government at this moment in time.

 

[JamesT]

She should have scrapped RDG straightaway and needs to get shadow GBR setup asap and detach DfT and all its consultants from day to day meddling

Who do you expect to scrap RDG? It’s a company owned by its members including the TOCs and the FOCs. Nothing to do with the Government.

Today was about max bad news and blame the Torys the budget in Autumn is for the good news so im pretty sure plenty of these projects will be progressing especially as they want to leverage private capital to pay for most of it.

If you were intending on progressing projects you don’t announce you’re cancelling them only to change your mind a few months later. Contracts will have ended based on today’s announcements, it would be an expensive process to write new ones.

 

[HSTEd]

Hasn't it been proven that cutting infrastructure is damaging long-term? Using the 2010-2015 Coalition Government as an example.

If anything we should be investing in capital projects and infrastructure, the only infrastructure I have heard announced from the new Government is housing. I believe this notion is part of Keynesian Economics, correct me if I am wrong?

Unfortunately she is boxed in by the promises Starmer decided to make before the election.
The vast majority of day-to-day spending is protected by the manifesto.

She is taking an axe to infrastructure spending to keep the day to day spending going a bit longer.

She should have scrapped RDG straightaway and needs to get shadow GBR setup asap and detach DfT and all its consultants from day to day meddling

That wouldn't really achieve anything.
There would be no more money for the railway.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I wonder just how much notice the new Cabinet will pay heed to of internet postings made by unelected internet forum contributors?

 

[Dan G]

How many of the proposed schemes here actually had funding to go ahead? Obviously the ones already built did, but 45 rail lines is a lot of projects from one fund and I've not heard a great deal about them getting anywhere before the election. The HS2 to Euston "being weighed up for scrapping" could be one of two things: either preparing us for it being scrapped so it's less surprising, or giving us a pessimistic take on the project ahead of it not being scrapped and then we can think "oh it's not so bad after all".

Only Okehampton has been reopened. As the article said, two other projects are in construction and the rest... Are ghosts. The last RYR update was two years ago and only announced that a few projects were going to get an unspecified amount of money for writing more business cases (any DfT projects needs at least three!).

Really RYR was dead and gone, just like RNEP. All Reeves has done is confirm it.

Of course a rather better course of action would have been to stop writing business cases and actually start building things.

 

[Topological]

I wonder just how much notice the new Cabinet will pay heed to of internet postings made by unelected internet forum contributors?

Insufficient, as always.

I just appreciate the irony of Labour accusing the Tories of unfunded spending and then making cuts like today's. Appreciate then despair.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Unfortunately she is boxed in by the promises Starmer decided to make before the election.
The vast majority of day-to-day spending is protected by the manifesto.

She is taking an axe to infrastructure spending to keep the day to day spending going a bit longer.


That wouldn't really achieve anything.
There would be no more money for the railway.

Not directly but GBR even in shadow mode is an opportunity to start to reshape the industry and provide the enablers to allow future cost reductions by removal of duplication. Given they also say they want to reduce the amount they spend on consultants its an easy win for DfT to dump all the hangers on trying to micro manage the industry.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Unfortunately she is boxed in by the promises Starmer decided to make before the election.
The vast majority of day-to-day spending is protected by the manifesto.

She is taking an axe to infrastructure spending to keep the day to day spending going a bit longer.

I'm not convinced she is boxed in: Labour's commitment was to balance the books for current spending. As far as I can recall, it was always understood that, under Labour's proposed fiscal rules, it was OK to borrow to fund investment, such as building new infrastructure.

 

[Mikey C]

I wonder just how much notice the new Cabinet will pay heed to of internet postings made by unelected internet forum contributors?

Labour with its massive majority won't have to pay much attention to stroppy Labour backbenchers, never mind the general public!

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I'm not convinced she is boxed in: Labour's commitment was to balance the books for current spending. As far as I can recall, it was always understood that, under Labour's proposed fiscal rules, it was OK to borrow to fund investment, such as building new infrastructure.

Im pretty sure we will see much positive news in this area come the Autumn statement they just wanted to clear the decks with todays statement and not materially different to what Osbourne did 14 yrs ago.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Not directly but GBR even in shadow mode is an opportunity to start to reshape the industry and provide the enablers to allow future cost reductions by removal of duplication. Given they also say they want to reduce the amount they spend on consultants its an easy win for DfT to dump all the hangers on trying to micro manage the industry.

The problem arises when politicians with no deep understanding of the specifics of the ministry they are placed in charge of, then you end up with a Transport Minister like Grayling.

 

[JamesT]

I'm not convinced she is boxed in: Labour's commitment was to balance the books for current spending. As far as I can recall, it was always understood that, under Labour's proposed fiscal rules, it was OK to borrow to fund investment, such as building new infrastructure.

From the manifesto:

Our fiscal rules are that:

The current budget moves into balance, so that day-to-day costs are met by revenues
Debt must be falling as a share of the economy by the fifth year of the forecast.

I suspect the second of those may hamstring borrowing for investment.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Im pretty sure we will see much positive news in this area come the Autumn statement they just wanted to clear the decks with todays statement and not materially different to what Osbourne did 14 yrs ago.

I do so admire your optimism that by the time of the Autumn Statement being made, the referred-to £22bn overspend will have been remedied and a new slate will be ready for future plans