Thello, CIV and Delays

[Gerald Fiennes]

Another old chestnut, but what are the Forum's views on using ES plus Thello to reach Venice, from the point of view of train delays and the CIV convention?

'CIV' doesn't seem to cover such a journey unless it's made on one ticket, but is there anyone that sells such a thing? Loco 2? Trainline Europe? Surely the these are just agents selling on behalf of two principals and therefore the booking is actually two tickets, not one? ES and Thello don't themselves sell a through ticket.

From Italy to the UK, I understand that ES are in the habit of charging c. EUR49 to switch to a later train if the Thello is late (which seems to be a quite frequent occurrence), ie. won't just put you on the next train gratis. Presumably this is a special concession of some kind?

Sounds like one must allow at least three hours between the arrival of the ES train and departure of Thello (and v.v.) to provide enough of a buffer, making this journey even more of an expensive and long adventure that it already is?

A recent report I heard was that the inbound train is still being besieged by illegal immigrants at Milano Cle., trying to get to France, as it is one of the few international trains that do this. Making it even less likely to arrive on time, presumably? Is this a regular occurrence?

 

[newmilton]

I recently used Loco2 to book Turin to London. Unlike other booking engines, they allow you to specify train, class, seating and length of stopover separately for each leg. I wanted three hours in Paris - partly in case of delays, partly to have a decent lunch without rushing - and although they issued two separate e-tickets, the Eurostar ticket is clearly marked CIV.

I'm pretty sure they sell Thello tickets as well.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is the issue that Thello are technically a private Open Access operator? CIV does provide protection across more than one ticket, though AIUI only for one connection i.e. if you have 3 legs and the first is delayed only the second is eligible for a free move to a later train.

 

[Merseysider]

I did the reverse journey last week.

The London - Paris ticket is clearly marked ‘CIV’ but the Paris - Venice ticket with Thello is not.

My understanding was that CIV protection treated two tickets as one journey.

Do both tickets need the CIV note?

(For the record, both E* and Thello were bang on time)

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Is the issue that Thello are technically a private Open Access operator? CIV does provide protection across more than one ticket, though AIUI only for one connection i.e. if you have 3 legs and the first is delayed only the second is eligible for a free move to a later train.

Yes, they are not subject to the public service obligation requirements as far as I know, but CIV (as an international convention) applies to all international passenger travel by default.

 

[newmilton]

I did the reverse journey last week.

The London - Paris ticket is clearly marked ‘CIV’ but the Paris - Venice ticket with Thello is not.

My understanding was that CIV protection treated two tickets as one journey.

Do both tickets need the CIV note?

(For the record, both E* and Thello were bang on time)

CIV relates to international travel. I would presume it is the international ticket that is marked as such. That being said, the last time I suffered delays on E* and missed a connection, it was with two entirely separate tickets, but SNCF passed me on a later train without quibbling.

 

[Bletchleyite]

CIV relates to international travel. I would presume it is the international ticket that is marked as such. That being said, the last time I suffered delays on E* and missed a connection, it was with two entirely separate tickets, but SNCF passed me on a later train without quibbling.

All DB tickets are marked CIV. That isn't unusual for European railways.

 

[Nicholas43]

A recent report I heard was that the inbound train is still being besieged by illegal immigrants at Milano Cle., trying to get to France, as it is one of the few international trains that do this. Making it even less likely to arrive on time, presumably? Is this a regular occurrence?

Sorry, I have no recent information. But in November 2017 there was a check of passports and tickets before boarding, at the platform entrance. And all passengers were woken for a passport check en route. I can't now remember whether this was at Brig or Vallorbe.

 

[Merseysider]

I’ve had a look at both of my Thello tickets (attached) and neither include CIV protection.

Make of that what you will.

However, trains are not being “besieged” at Milano.

The situation has passed.