Through GWR Bedwyns to be axed from May 2022

[317362]

Understand that all bar the peak Bedwyns are going to be shuttles from Newbury from May. Reason given is (aside from 10% cost reduction from DfT) that trains need replacing in South West so the IETs used on Bedwyns are being shifted and we're back solely on 165s.

Most Bedwyns have been shuttles since the Hitachi cracks surfaced, and reliability and connections have suffered as a result.

Service has gone from best ever timetable pre Covid to this, which is arguably worst since 1992. I know this is hardly unique.

 

[Kite159]

Railways, putting passengers first...

That will be one way to encourage usage back to the car.

Still with rubbish connections at Newbury between the Bedwyn - Newbury 165 & the Newbury - Paddington semi-fasts?

 

[JonathanH]

Not reflected in RTT yet...
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...22-05-26/0300-0259?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

The HST discussion this evening suggests that any displacement isn't happening from May.

 

[317362]

Railways, putting passengers first...

That will be one way to encourage usage back to the car.

Still with rubbish connections at Newbury between the Bedwyn - Newbury 165 & the Newbury - Paddington semi-fasts?

Currently still a fairly random set of connections ranging from ok to useless so assume that'll be the same. Timetable doesn't seem to exist anywhere yet.

 

[geoffk]

With hindsight, perhaps the terminus of the Paddington outer suburban service should have been Marlborough!

 

[warwickshire]

Understand that all bar the peak Bedwyns are going to be shuttles from Newbury from May. Reason given is (aside from 10% cost reduction from DfT) that trains need replacing in South West so the IETs used on Bedwyns are being shifted and we're back solely on 165s.

Most Bedwyns have been shuttles since the Hitachi cracks surfaced, and reliability and connections have suffered as a result.

Service has gone from best ever timetable pre Covid to this, which is arguably worst since 1992. I know this is hardly unique.

Interesting because from a local source off mine I have heard from 29th march 2022. One banbury 165 turbo diagramm.
Then from may 2022. 50 percent off banbury turbo 165 diagramms.
Then by December 2022 more or less all the turbos from banbury will be replaced by IETS. So it looks like IETS are coming off the bedwyn onto the banburys instead. Possibly to intice or gain customers from banbury onto gwr more maybe?

 

[fgwrich]

Railways, putting passengers first...

That will be one way to encourage usage back to the car.

My thoughts exactly. Bedwyn / Hungerford / Kintbury pre pandemic certainly used to be well used stations, with the service to match. While the pandemic hasn't helped, the IET situation is doing a good job of seeing these services off sadly, despite the investment both put into those stations and the reversing siding at Bedwyn. I suppose GWR / NR will need the investment put into the large multi-story car park at Newbury paid back now (with the former Bedwyn service passengers now facing a 2 car turbo shuttle or a drive down the A4).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Currently still a fairly random set of connections ranging from ok to useless so assume that'll be the same. Timetable doesn't seem to exist anywhere yet.

This would work fine as a quality connection, but the railway simply doesn't care for such things.

No scope to run it to Reading?

 

[Ashley Hill]

No scope to run it to Reading?

Or Westbury? Perhaps involving a Devizes Parkway?

 

[JonathanH]

No scope to run it to Reading?

Not without finding some more Turbos. Newbury to Bedwyn fits nicely in an hourly return trip.

Either Newbury loses its through trains from Paddington or the Reading to Newbury local has to be run with Turbos. Those Turbos would have to come from another route.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Will there be enough Turbos left at Reading when most go to Bristol after the 769s come into service? I suppose it’ll have to be run by one of the small pool left for Greenford, Marlow and Didcot Oxford.

 

[YSTrains]

What will take place instead?

 

[Brooke]

My thoughts exactly. Bedwyn / Hungerford / Kintbury pre pandemic certainly used to be well used stations, with the service to match. While the pandemic hasn't helped, the IET situation is doing a good job of seeing these services off sadly, despite the investment both put into those stations and the reversing siding at Bedwyn. I suppose GWR / NR will need the investment put into the large multi-story car park at Newbury paid back now (with the former Bedwyn service passengers now facing a 2 car turbo shuttle or a drive down the A4).

Yes, my sentiments as well. I have friends in Hungerford and near Bedwyn.

They travel to London much less now than pre-pandemic, which I assume is true for many commuters in that area.

But: they also have cars and well-paying jobs, so they won’t have the patience to hang around for connections.

My prediction: Huge ongoing drop in passenger numbers for those stations. Increased traffic on the A4 & around, mix of rail-heading and people just going all the way to their destination…

 

[alxndr]

Yes, my sentiments as well. I have friends in Hungerford and near Bedwyn.

They travel to London much less now than pre-pandemic, which I assume is true for many commuters in that area.

But: they also have cars and well-paying jobs, so they won’t have the patience to hang around for connections.

My prediction: Huge ongoing drop in passenger numbers for those stations. Increased traffic on the A4 & around, mix of rail-heading and people just going all the way to their destination…

Similarly I have a friend in Pewsey. Due to the poor service from Pewsey she'd often travel to Bedwyn, but I wouldn't be surprised if she starts going to Swindon for the train instead.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Interesting because from a local source off mine I have heard from 29th march 2022. One banbury 165 turbo diagramm.
Then from may 2022. 50 percent off banbury turbo 165 diagramms.
Then by December 2022 more or less all the turbos from banbury will be replaced by IETS. So it looks like IETS are coming off the bedwyn onto the banburys instead. Possibly to intice or gain customers from banbury onto gwr more maybe?

Given that presumably most of the fast London Paddington to Oxford (xx:20 departures) are 9-car IET's, does that mean the Banbury routes mentioned here will be 9-car IET's?

If passengers are gonna be persuaded onto Chiltern Railways services then 9-cars would be better. Significantly more capacity to and from Banbury and Reading!

Also, very cleverly, they could easily slot in the ex-Newcastle xx:19 CrossCountry paths from Banbury and still get to Oxford before leaving at xx:02.

Sounds like a sacrifice worth having - 2-car 165's on the Newbury - Bedwyn shuttles if it means huge improvements elsewhere!

 

[JonathanH]

Given that presumably most of the fast London Paddington to Oxford (xx:20 departures) are 9-car IET's, does that mean the Banbury routes mentioned here will be 9-car IET's?

No, most Oxford departures, even those not going to the Cotswolds, are 5-car IETs.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...22-03-04/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

Will there be enough Turbos left at Reading when most go to Bristol after the 769s come into service? I suppose it’ll have to be run by one of the small pool left for Greenford, Marlow and Didcot Oxford.

One is needed for peak Newbury to Bedwyn services in any case. Greenford, Marlow, Windsor, Kennet and five for Oxford was the original plan requiring 9 LTV Turbos.

 

[PTR 444]

Not without finding some more Turbos. Newbury to Bedwyn fits nicely in an hourly return trip.

Either Newbury loses its through trains from Paddington or the Reading to Newbury local has to be run with Turbos. Those Turbos would have to come from another route.

Could the Reading - Newbury all stations shuttle be extended to Bedwyn and operated using Class 769s? It would require more units but avoids the issue of diesel running under wires east of Newbury, as well as providing those west of there with much better quality connections to London.

The existing Paddington - Bedwyn service could then be cut back to Newbury and operated using Class 387s.

 

[Siemens Staines]

When the IET cracks issue first surfaced, the Newbury - Bedwyn peak hours 165 stayed out all day, and it still does to a lesser extent even though some Paddington IETs have returned. I imagine the same will apply, so Bedwyn can be covered without any increase in the number of 165s required.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

No, most Oxford departures, even those not going to the Cotswolds, are 5-car IETs.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...22-03-04/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt


One is needed for peak Newbury to Bedwyn services in any case. Greenford, Marlow, Windsor, Kennet and five for Oxford was the original plan requiring 9 LTV Turbo

No, most Oxford departures, even those not going to the Cotswolds, are 5-car IETs.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...22-03-04/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt


One is needed for peak Newbury to Bedwyn services in any case. Greenford, Marlow, Windsor, Kennet and five for Oxford was the original plan requiring 9 LTV Turbos.

Thanks for the link, JonathanH .

They must have changed it in December then. Seems more sensible as many Bristol, South Wales and South West services will likely need 9 coaches.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Then by December 2022 more or less all the turbos from banbury will be replaced by IETS. So it looks like IETS are coming off the bedwyn onto the banburys instead. Possibly to intice or gain customers from banbury onto gwr more maybe?

27min Banbury–Oxford all stations, plus 47min Oxford–Paddington, isn't particularly competitive with Chiltern (~63 minutes) even if you take off a couple of minutes for IET performance. GWR could add additional non-stopping services from Banbury to Oxford, I guess, but it would seem odd for the cost-conscious DfT to set up a new fast London service for a middling-sized town that already has one.

Unless, that is, DfT has decided not to reinstate the half-hourly CrossCountry service from Birmingham–Reading; and has hatched this as a cunning wheeze to provide capacity between Banbury, Oxford and Reading.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

27min Banbury–Oxford all stations, plus 47min Oxford–Paddington, isn't particularly competitive with Chiltern (~63 minutes) even if you take off a couple of minutes for IET performance. GWR could add additional non-stopping services from Banbury to Oxford, I guess, but it would seem odd for the cost-conscious DfT to set up a new fast London service for a middling-sized town that already has one.

Unless, that is, DfT has decided not to reinstate the half-hourly CrossCountry service from Birmingham–Reading; and has hatched this as a cunning wheeze to provide capacity between Banbury, Oxford and Reading.

It would be a far better experience than cramming onto a short Voyager again!

Perhaps CrossCountry could stick to 2tph to and from the North East and Banbury!

 

[fgwrich]

27min Banbury–Oxford all stations, plus 47min Oxford–Paddington, isn't particularly competitive with Chiltern (~63 minutes) even if you take off a couple of minutes for IET performance. GWR could add additional non-stopping services from Banbury to Oxford, I guess, but it would seem odd for the cost-conscious DfT to set up a new fast London service for a middling-sized town that already has one.

Unless, that is, DfT has decided not to reinstate the half-hourly CrossCountry service from Birmingham–Reading; and has hatched this as a cunning wheeze to provide capacity between Banbury, Oxford and Reading.

The DfT and Cunning? That'll be the day!

 

[swt_passenger]

Interesting because from a local source off mine I have heard from 29th march 2022. One banbury 165 turbo diagramm.
Then from may 2022. 50 percent off banbury turbo 165 diagramms.
Then by December 2022 more or less all the turbos from banbury will be replaced by IETS. So it looks like IETS are coming off the bedwyn onto the banburys instead. Possibly to intice or gain customers from banbury onto gwr more maybe?

In another thread the assumption is that the spare IETs would replace West Country HSTs.

 

[nw1]

Interesting because from a local source off mine I have heard from 29th march 2022. One banbury 165 turbo diagramm.
Then from may 2022. 50 percent off banbury turbo 165 diagramms.
Then by December 2022 more or less all the turbos from banbury will be replaced by IETS. So it looks like IETS are coming off the bedwyn onto the banburys instead. Possibly to intice or gain customers from banbury onto gwr more maybe?

So Banbury, which already has a perfectly adequate service to London, is to get another one and the Bedwyn line loses its London service as a result?

I thought the railways were being run less in this 'naked competition' way these days, with the DFT more in control?


Also, I don't know when through services between London and Bedwyn came in, but they were there in 1996, so quite a while. Granted Bedwyn itself is pretty small, but Hungerford is a reasonable sized town. I think electrification to Bedwyn has been discussed before (which would have been the natural solution, as it wouldn't then need bi-modes, any electric stock could have covered it) but there were reasons it couldn't be done, something to do with the siding at Bedwyn?

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I might be wrong but I think the Banbury suggestion will prove to be a red herring. Any savings in IETs will most likely be recycled to reduce the reliance on expensive HST 2+4 sets.

What this does illustrate is the stupidity of cutting the GWML wiring programme back to Newbury rather than wiring the rather simple section through to Bedwyn reversing siding.

 

[nw1]

I might be wrong but I think the Banbury suggestion will prove to be a red herring. Any savings in IETs will most likely be recycled to reduce the reliance on expensive HST 2+4 sets.

What this does illustrate is the stupidity of cutting the GWML wiring programme back to Newbury rather than wiring the rather simple section through to Bedwyn reversing siding.

Yes, indeed, only a few miles. You could then have had an hourly 387-operated Paddington to Bedwyn which could have been run in the same way as the old through diesel service.

 

[Horizon22]

What is said is effectively correct. The vast majority of London - Bedwyn services are being removed, with London-Newbury 387 services continuing and a turbo shuttle from Newbury-Bedwyn. Connections will generally be improved at Newbury. This cascades the 80x stock effectively (as still some are out of action) to W. Country and S. Wales. There is the potential for the semi-fast services to Plymouth / Exeter / Paignton to have an additional stop at Newbury though

Naturally this will be annoying for the Bedwyn - Newbury stations. The route cause of this is evidently an inability to run 387s all the way through to Bedwyn. Like Oxford, it suffers (albeit more) from the lack of electrification.

 

[YSTrains]

So the IETs will now officially operate a non London route since the service is now cut back to Newbury with 387s.

 

[nw1]

What is said is effectively correct. The vast majority of London - Bedwyn services are being removed, with London-Newbury 387 services continuing and a turbo shuttle from Newbury-Bedwyn. Connections will generally be improved at Newbury. This cascades the 80x stock effectively (as still some are out of action) to W. Country and S. Wales. There is the potential for the semi-fast services to Plymouth / Exeter / Paignton to have an additional stop at Newbury though

Naturally this will be annoying for the Bedwyn - Newbury stations. The route cause of this is evidently an inability to run 387s all the way through to Bedwyn. Like Oxford, it suffers (albeit more) from the lack of electrification.

What is the "why" on electrification not being extended to Bedwyn incidentally? I do seem to recall there was some infrastructure-related reason to do with the siding, is this correct?

 

[Horizon22]

Similarly I have a friend in Pewsey. Due to the poor service from Pewsey she'd often travel to Bedwyn, but I wouldn't be surprised if she starts going to Swindon for the train instead.

Pewsey is a weird one to get right. It's too small to justify a stop on a fast service to Plymouth or Penzance, is not a natural terminus to extend Bedwyn terminators too, nor has the capacity and so has to make deal with the semi-fast W. Country service which still isn't really the right fit. It's a quirk of railway geography that Bedwyn which is much smaller has developed as a terminus.

Ideally you could run a Reading - Bedwyn turbo, but the diagrams just don't quite fit annoyingly. The whole line to Westbury also suffers with reliability due to the mix of fast, semi-fast, regional and freight traffc with just a few passing loops.

What is the "why" on electrification not being extended to Bedwyn incidentally? I do seem to recall there was some infrastructure-related reason to do with the siding, is this correct?

Probably the spiralling costs of GWML electrification more than anything else. I don't see anything that would prevent the siding being electified.