Through rail/bus tickets (not plusbus)

[euphonia]

BRfares shows fares for Bridport via First Bus X51/X53 to/from London Waterloo, including advance fares. Can anyone tell me if there is any way to book these online? The forum's booking engine shows Bridport as a valid origin but returns "no results for your current search".

 

[transportphoto]

It requires the bus times to be set up in journey planners to be sold online - online retailers typically search for the itinerary first - for the most parts bus times are not set up in this way so therefore no journeys returned when searching. The ticket can be purchased from ticket offices etc.

 

[euphonia]

Thank you for your explanation - that makes sense, although of course you would need to travel to the railway station to buy the ticket you no longer need!

 

[OscarH]

It requires the bus times to be set up in journey planners to be sold online - online retailers typically search for the itinerary first - for the most parts bus times are not set up in this way so therefore no journeys returned when searching. The ticket can be purchased from ticket offices etc.

They don't have to be in the timetable being pedantic, the "timetable group" functionality in the fares data can be used to link a bus location to a railhead. They can be problematic though, so many people won't support them (or at least won't support all of them)

 

[transportphoto]

They don't have to be in the timetable being pedantic, the "timetable group" functionality in the fares data can be used to link a bus location to a railhead. They can be problematic though, so many people won't support them (or at least won't support all of them)

I was close but I’ll bow to your qualification Thanks for the insight.

 

[[.n]]

The GWR web site used to allow booking online for this exact ticket - hmm though now I can only make it work for Lyme Regis via FirstBus X51/X53 (LPO) - it maybe be the same price anyway - Bridport Bus should be (BPO)

Aha the SWR website also allows it!

 

[euphonia]

The GWR web site used to allow booking online for this exact ticket - hmm though now I can only make it work for Lyme Regis via FirstBus X51/X53 (LPO) - it maybe be the same price anyway - Bridport Bus should be (BPO)

Aha the SWR website also allows it!

Did it offer you fares and the chance to book a ticket? It doesn’t work for me, sadly, although yes it can set the departure origin correctly. I do wonder if these through tickets will be largely discontinued and replaced by PlusBus zones in future. Which are not quite the same thing.

 

[janb]

With nothing set up in the data a ticket office wouldn't be able to sell advance fares either. Just walk up, or a split bus ticket Bridport to Dorchester/rail advance from Dorchester which with no bus times in the system is not ideal.

No internal information (in the internal knowledgebase at least, SWR might brief their staff) on this but I did at least find the SWR page that confirms the concept still exists.

Bus links | South Western Railway

You can buy combined train and bus tickets to towns and villages without train stations across the South Western Railway network. Find out where to and how here.

www.southwesternrailway.com

Dorchester South to Bridport​ Where to board Outside station entrance Valid on First Bus route X51 Tickets and discounts Singles, Day Return and Period Returns Through fares are offered from most South Western Railway stations. Where no through fare exists, buy your ticket to Dorchester and a separate bus link ticket between Dorchester and Bridport. You can buy this at any staffed station or from the Guard on the train Child and most Railcard discounts are available

 

[Timetraveller]

Due to the capped bus fares at present it is cheaper to buy an advance ticket or walk up ticket to Dorchester South and pay on the bus. Bus runs every 2 hours from Dorchester X51 bus stop outside the station, alternate from Weymouth X53 every 2 hours from King's Statue a walk from Weymouth station.

 

[[.n]]

Did it offer you fares and the chance to book a ticket? It doesn’t work for me, sadly, although yes it can set the departure origin correctly. I do wonder if these through tickets will be largely discontinued and replaced by PlusBus zones in future. Which are not quite the same thing.

Didn't actually try that - I tend to buy these either at Dorchester South or in most cases from the guard on the train - but as also noted above at the moment there's not really any price advantage because the single bus fare is currently capped at £3.00

This fare should not be replaced by PlusBus as its a protected option from when way back (I can't remember the exact term/details)

 

[drueberflug]

As the others have already stated, the ticket office would be the only place for now if you actually need a through ticket.

However, I am wondering how TransPennine Express got into this fare, considering how no tickets outside the SWR region (not even reaching Reading) are available from BPO...
It'd be funny if they see a cut of this fare without even delivering any service at all...

RETURN FARES
Semi Flex R XE9​	Route SWR & FIRST BUS​	Validity Outward: AS ADVERTISED (no break of journey) Return: AS ADVERTISED Restrictions UE Semi Flex Return​	Adult £135.60​	Child £67.80​	◊​
​ ​ Return:​ Please Enquire​ Ticket issued to:​ LONDON TERMINALS​ Fare Setter: SOUTH WESTERN RAILWAY​
​ Booking Deadline: 23:59, 1 day in advance of travel Booking Deadline: 23:59, 1 day in advance of travel (when journey involves travel on SOUTH WESTERN RAILWAY)​ Journey must include travel on at least one of the following main TOCs: SOUTH WESTERN RAILWAY, TRANSPENNINE EXPRESS Connecting travel (where permitted by routeing) is allowed on: any TOC​

 

[htwestern]

As the others have already stated, the ticket office would be the only place for now if you actually need a through ticket.

However, I am wondering how TransPennine Express got into this fare, considering how no tickets outside the SWR region (not even reaching Reading) are available from BPO...
It'd be funny if they see a cut of this fare without even delivering any service at all...

Could it be a bodge around the fare-sharing mechanism so that FirstGroup got their part for the bus? Probably hasn’t been revised since First lost the TPE franchise

 

[Haywain]

Could it be a bodge around the fare-sharing mechanism so that FirstGroup got their part for the bus?

It's far more likely that the paperwork for creating the fare was just overwriting a previous form that had been used for TPE and no-one noticed (or cared, as it has no effect on anything).

 

[TUC]

At the risk of asking a stupid question, issues like this imply that the list of available fares for a given set of destinations are not the starting point for what is set into journey planners. If they aren't, what is the source from which they are set up?

 

[Watershed]

As the others have already stated, the ticket office would be the only place for now if you actually need a through ticket.

However, I am wondering how TransPennine Express got into this fare, considering how no tickets outside the SWR region (not even reaching Reading) are available from BPO...
It'd be funny if they see a cut of this fare without even delivering any service at all...

I'd be worried that this could be an indication that TPE will be abolishing their walk-up Off-Peak tickets and replacing them with this...

At the risk of asking a stupid question, issues like this imply that the list of available fares for a given set of destinations are not the starting point for what is set into journey planners. If they aren't, what is the source from which they are set up?

Journey planners generally start, as the name would suggest, by looking for valid journeys (i.e. where all the connections meet the minimum connection times). It's only at this stage that they look for fares that are valid on those journeys.

 

[TUC]

Journey planners generally start, as the name would suggest, by looking for valid journeys (i.e. where all the connections meet the minimum connection times). It's only at this stage that they look for fares that are valid on those journeys.

I think you've misunderstood me. There must be an underlying fares database which they search from for a given valid journey. Why would that database not have every possible fare for that valid journey, and why do some journey planners identify fare options that others don't? Does that imply that there are several different fares databases which differing journey planners utilise, or do different journey planners apply differing filters as to which possible fares to rule in/out?

 

[Haywain]

Does that imply that there are several different fares databases which differing journey planners utilise, or do different journey planners apply differing filters as to which possible fares to rule in/out?

The latter - there are differences in what the journey planners regard as appropriate results, and to some extent in what the websites and ticket issuing systems chose to offer.

 

[Watershed]

I think you've misunderstood me. There must be an underlying fares database which they search from for a given valid journey.

Retailers import fares data daily from an RDG source. Each retailer will then handle that data in their own way, but I imagine all will create a database of sorts, yes.

Why would that database not have every possible fare for that valid journey

Some fares are restricted in terms of the ways they can be sold, e.g. whether they are only available through one specific TOC's own website, TOCs in general, ticket offices etc.

There may also be issues with the way that a journey planner is able to interpret and thus offer the fare, especially if it's set up in a non-standard way.

and why do some journey planners identify fare options that others don't?

It would be best if you can provide us with an example of what you're thinking of, but in general terms it could be that it isn't finding (or is filtering out) a journey which the fare you want is valid on (e.g. one which is overtaken and/or which has additional changes).

It could also just be a bug on the retailer's end.

Does that imply that there are several different fares databases which differing journey planners utilise, or do different journey planners apply differing filters as to which possible fares to rule in/out?

They definitely apply different filters in terms of the journeys they show, for example TrainSplit and Railsmartr are good at finding cheaper overtaken journeys whilst most journey planners only show the fastest options.

For a given journey, the available fares should normally be the same across all retailers, subject to the above provisos.

 

[SargeNpton]

Journey planners reply on the completeness of data in the fares database, the timetable database, and the reservations system. If any of those three are deficient then a journey enquiry can fail.

Unfortunately, for third-party bus connection (and, to a lesser extent, ferries) the timetable data either does not always get input or does not get updated. One of those tasks that sometimes falls through the cracks when the sponsoring TOC forgets to specifically include the task in someone's duties.

 

[Sealink]

BRfares shows fares for Bridport via First Bus X51/X53 to/from London Waterloo, including advance fares. Can anyone tell me if there is any way to book these online? The forum's booking engine shows Bridport as a valid origin but returns "no results for your current search".

Sorry, just saw this.

This has been a thorn in the side of our local transport group WATAG for sometime.

When SWR did offer the connecting bus journey, it was linked to "Walk On Fares" only. They just refused to link them to Advance tickets.
So a Dorchester-Waterloo Advance at £15 became a Bridport-Waterloo Anytime at around £71. However, you could book a Bridport Dorchester ticket on SWR for £5 Single, £6 Day Return and £10 Period Return (this was before the £2 fare cap so offered decent savings) - far enough in advance and the ticket would be posted to you in Bridport. No issue if journey was from Dorchester as you could pick up from the machine. And I never had to show a connecting rail ticket.

Additionally, since First MTR took over SWR, you'd have thought that the relationship with First Buses here would have made things easier.
It didn't - and First buses have repeatedly left the station a minute or two after a late running train has arrived. I think SWR don't want to be responsible if this happens on the last bus of the day.

 

[[.n]]

Sorry, just saw this.

This has been a thorn in the side of our local transport group WATAG for sometime.

When SWR did offer the connecting bus journey, it was linked to "Walk On Fares" only. They just refused to link them to Advance tickets.
So a Dorchester-Waterloo Advance at £15 became a Bridport-Waterloo Anytime at around £71. However, you could book a Bridport Dorchester ticket on SWR for £5 Single, £6 Day Return and £10 Period Return (this was before the £2 fare cap so offered decent savings) - far enough in advance and the ticket would be posted to you in Bridport. No issue if journey was from Dorchester as you could pick up from the machine. And I never had to show a connecting rail ticket.

Additionally, since First MTR took over SWR, you'd have thought that the relationship with First Buses here would have made things easier.
It didn't - and First buses have repeatedly left the station a minute or two after a late running train has arrived. I think SWR don't want to be responsible if this happens on the last bus of the day.

WATAG is where I got most of my info - I take it you're a member? I try and attend most meetings

 

[Trainbike46]

BRfares shows fares for Bridport via First Bus X51/X53 to/from London Waterloo, including advance fares. Can anyone tell me if there is any way to book these online? The forum's booking engine shows Bridport as a valid origin but returns "no results for your current search".

It requires the bus times to be set up in journey planners to be sold online - online retailers typically search for the itinerary first - for the most parts bus times are not set up in this way so therefore no journeys returned when searching. The ticket can be purchased from ticket offices etc.

Would mixingdeck-based booking engines (e.g. tickets.gwr.com ) be able to sell this ticket?

EDIT: I tried this, and it doesn't even recognise the origin station

 

[Sealink]

WATAG is where I got most of my info - I take it you're a member? I try and attend most meetings

I was but work committments meant I couldn't continue. During lockdown I (with WATAG) did the WATAG News email.

WATAG is where I got most of my info - I take it you're a member? I try and attend most meetings

I think I know you!

 

[Sealink]

Bridport fares are now back on SWR btw

 

[[.n]]

Bridport fares are now back on SWR btw

thanks for the update

 

[Sealink]

thanks for the update

Although the Bridport fare only attaches to the "Walk on tickets", not Advance, and with the £3 fare cap it's not really worth it.
So a Dorchester - Waterloo fare of £19.90 becomes £80.30 from Bridport.