"Through" trains which aren't!

[peteb]

I thought I'd ask if anyone knows of any (internal or cross border) services which are advertised as a "through" train but are not, usually involving a change of train en route.

Three for starters:

Porto to Vigo, has been split en route recently, not at Valenca as one might think but earlier in the journey at Viano do Castelo.

Vallodolid to Santander Spanish Regional train splits at some remote station. Much newer units complete the run into Santander but with no seat reservations so chaos ensues...

Clermont Ferrand to Beziers Intercités requires a change of train at Neussargues and from diesel to electric unit.

It's in practice quite tricky to detrain passengers en route with all their luggage then sort out the arguments on the second train when people get upset that their reserved seats no longer exist! CP and RENFE to be fair do quite a good job, even stopping the train last week near Valenca to allow someone off who was inadvertantly returning to Spain!

 

[rvdborgt]

Krakow-Warsaw-Kaunas-Vilnius: change at Mockava

 

[AdamWW]

Happened to me in Croatia once due (I think!) to engineering work.

We stopped in the middle of nowhere and all had to climb down onto the ballast and onto another train...

 

[Oxfordblues]

I believe the weekly Ankara-Tehran "through" service is in fact two separate trains: the Turkish one to Tatvan and the Iranian one from Van, even though they're linked by a train-ferry across Lake Van (but it's for freight wagons only).

 

[duesselmartin]

In the past the Kleine Scheidegg service to Grindelwald ( Switzerland) was shown as a service to Interlaken. That only changed recently.

 

[AdamWW]

I believe the weekly Ankara-Tehran "through" service is in fact two separate trains: the Turkish one to Tatvan and the Iranian one from Van, even though they're linked by a train-ferry across Lake Van (but it's for freight wagons only).

I have read that the baggage car used to run through, via the train ferry, but not the passenger coaches, making it a particularly unusual service.

I forget now how the Thomas Cook showed that.

I've been on plenty of buses in the UK that were the reverse - through services but timetabled as separate ones with a note that through tickets are available and no change of vehicle is required.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Don't know it it's still advertised as a through journey, but it used to be: Perpignan to Latour-de-Carol-Entveitg (and beyond to Andorre-L'Hospitalet and Toulouse). Requires a change at Villefranche-Vernet-les-Bains (the French love their compound station names don't they?) and again at Latour due to a change of gauge at both.

 

[SandsofEss]

Bucharest to Sofia is another.

Advertised as a through train, but we changed from a Romanian DMU to a Bulgarian loco-hauled train at Ruse/Pyce (while they checked passports).

... though I notice that as of last week, the timetable published on BDZ's website now makes it clear that there's a change of trains.

 

[AdamWW]

Don't know it it's still advertised as a through journey, but it used to be: Perpignan to Latour-de-Carol-Entveitg (and beyond to Andorre-L'Hospitalet and Toulouse). Requires a change at Villefranche-Vernet-les-Bains (the French love their compound station names don't they?) and again at Latour due to a change of gauge at both.

I think we're talking about two different things now:
1) Through journeys which require a change of trains and are shown as such in the timetable
2) Journeys which appear to be timetabled as a single train throughout but actually require a change of train at some point.

I.e. in 1) if you're paying attention you expect to change trains. In 2) it's likely to come as a surprise.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I thought I'd ask if anyone knows of any (internal or cross border) services which are advertised as a "through" train but are not, usually involving a change of train en route.

I know this is an international thread, but whether a TfW train will be through across Shrewsbury or Machynlleth often bears no resemblance whatsoever to the timetable. I've had one timetabled as not through from Pwllheli go through all the way to Birmingham, and plenty timetabled as through not be, either with an additional change at Mach or a unit swap at Shrewsbury when a non-ETCS unit ended up on the diagram. Seems to happen to me more often than it doesn't.

 

[Oxfordblues]

I've been on plenty of buses in the UK that were the reverse - through services but timetabled as separate ones with a note that through tickets are available and no change of vehicle is required.

The Oxford-Swindon S6 service is a classic case-in-point. The destination blind states "Faringdon for Swindon" suggesting an intermediate change is required. But the connectional margin at Faringdon is just 2 minutes, so what if your bus is 5 minutes late: will the Swindon bus wait? The driver often reassures anxious passengers that the "connection" is guaranteed. It is of course the same bus and driver. European Union drivers' hours rules insist the route is "spilt", though all that does is to deter potential passengers. The UK left the EU but the drivers' hours rules still apply!

 

[superalbs]

Bucharest to Sofia is another.

Advertised as a through train, but we changed from a Romanian DMU to a Bulgarian loco-hauled train at Ruse/Pyce (while they checked passports).

... though I notice that as of last week, the timetable published on BDZ's website now makes it clear that there's a change of trains.

I've done it as a direct train. It's seasonal, I believe.

 

[joncombe]

In my experience anything to/from the Cambrian Coast line that the timetable shows as running through to any stations east of Shrewsbury. I don't think I have ever done that journey without having to change at Shrewsbury and/or Machynlleth despite what the timetable shows.

 

[popeter45]

twice now had Berlin-amsterdam IC break at the dutch boarder

 

[Bletchleyite]

In my experience anything to/from the Cambrian Coast line that the timetable shows as running through to any stations east of Shrewsbury. I don't think I have ever done that journey without having to change at Shrewsbury and/or Machynlleth despite what the timetable shows.

As mentioned above I've also had trains operate through that weren't timetabled to. It seems almost random!

 

[rvdborgt]

twice now had Berlin-amsterdam IC break at the dutch boarder

That's not supposed to be the case though.

 

[popeter45]

That's not supposed to be the case though.

one actually was as becuase of the terms of the deal with NS they need to provide a dining car but that day they had to reverse en route so used a control car and therefore not allowed to use the dining car so ran them as 2 services under one train number

 

[Sprinter150]

I thought I'd ask if anyone knows of any (internal or cross border) services which are advertised as a "through" train but are not, usually involving a change of train en route.

Three for starters:

Porto to Vigo, has been split en route recently, not at Valenca as one might think but earlier in the journey at Viano do Castelo.

Vallodolid to Santander Spanish Regional train splits at some remote station. Much newer units complete the run into Santander but with no seat reservations so chaos ensues...

Clermont Ferrand to Beziers Intercités requires a change of train at Neussargues and from diesel to electric unit.

It's in practice quite tricky to detrain passengers en route with all their luggage then sort out the arguments on the second train when people get upset that their reserved seats no longer exist! CP and RENFE to be fair do quite a good job, even stopping the train last week near Valenca to allow someone off who was inadvertantly returning to Spain!

Porto to Vigo must be recent indeed as it was a "real" through train last August i.e. the same unit. I do hope CP has improved the offering from a 3-car DMU.

TrainOSE in Greece applied this practice at the beginning of the month on the Piraeus-Athens line. To my surprise, all passengers disembarked and made a cross-platform interchange at Rentis (two stops after Piraeus) with only a two-minute dwell time. I think the same unit was shuttling back and forth between Rentis and Piraeus, presumably obviating the need to rely on signalling following the recent tragedy.

 

[AdamWW]

If we're including trains that sometimes don't run through, the Zugspitzbahn in Germany is an interesting example.

This partly runs inside Germany's highest mountain in a similar manner to the Jungfraubahn.

The lower part of the route is adhesion operated and the higher (and steeper) part, including the tunnel, uses a rack.

The normal service can be operated by three units which run throughout.

But they don't have any other trains that can cover the entire route, so for a more intensive service they run rack only trains part of the way and passengers then have to change onto a different train which shuttles up and down the adhesion section (I believe this train is second hand from Switzerland and is actually rack equipped but doesn't fit into the tunnel and can't cope with the steepest sections anyway).

I don't know how often they have to run an intensive service now - they have built a big cable car that also gets you up the mountain. When I went on the Zugspitzbahn the cable car was out of action having had a little accident.

 

[DanielB]

one actually was as becuase of the terms of the deal with NS they need to provide a dining car but that day they had to reverse en route so used a control car and therefore not allowed to use the dining car so ran them as 2 services under one train number

This has nothing to do with the dining car: the German control cars are simply not allowed in the Netherlands. Those are incompatible with a 1700 loco, don't have ATB and aren't equipped to run under 1500 V.

Actually the whole rake of cars behind that control car will not have been capable of running cross border, which is why those are only used to run a replacement train when there is a shortage of the cars used normally.

 

[popeter45]

This has nothing to do with the dining car: the German control cars are simply not allowed in the Netherlands. Those are incompatible with a 1700 loco, don't have ATB and aren't equipped to run under 1500 V.

Actually the whole rake of cars behind that control car will not have been capable of running cross border, which is why those are only used to run a replacement train when there is a shortage of the cars used normally.

okay good to know, i was going off what the conductor told us but good to hear the actual reason

 

[Watershed]

FEVE seem to specialise in this sort of thing. Lots of their longer distance services are falsely advertised as through services. In fact, from Bilbao to León, you'd have to change twice - first to switch from an electric to a diesel unit at the limit of the Bilbao Cercanías network, and then again at the outskirts of León to take a rail replacement bus that takes you somewhere vaguely in the vicinity of the terminus.

I've no idea how you'd be expected to find the replacement bus stop if travelling in the other direction!

 

[peteb]

Porto to Vigo must be recent indeed as it was a "real" through train last August i.e. the same unit. I do hope CP has improved the offering from a 3-car DMU.

TrainOSE in Greece applied this practice at the beginning of the month on the Piraeus-Athens line. To my surprise, all passengers disembarked and made a cross-platform interchange at Rentis (two stops after Piraeus) with only a two-minute dwell time. I think the same unit was shuttling back and forth between Rentis and Piraeus, presumably obviating the need to rely on signalling following the recent tragedy.

CP provided both trains. They were both 3 car DMU not EMU, despite the entire journey being under the wires. They were the type with 2+2 seating and the seats reverse so you can sit in a group of four if you wish or have them in airplane layout, handy for those like me that want to travel forwards! We thought at first the change of train was due to a defective unit as it filled with diesel to smoke as it left Porto and the Guard had to open the windows, but no, it returned to Porto fully laden.....

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

NSW Trainlink's Intercity South Coast service from Sydney Central is an electric service advertised as going to Bomaderry, but one must change at Kiama (about 120km south of Sydney) which is the limit of electrification, for an onward diesel train to Bomaderry.

 

[peteb]

Assuming that's a unit not loco hauled? It's quite inconvenient to transfer luggage etc to a different train, whereas in the past I guess it just needed a loco change?

 

[rg177]

The Piraeus-Athens Airport service seems to be a Piraeus-Rentis and Rentis-Athens Airport one at the moment.

A pair of diesel Stadler GTWs does the hop to Rentis then an electric Desiro takes over. Why, I've no idea. OHLE on the blink?

 

[peteb]

Ljubluana to Budapest was today split at Hodos. 2 car emu worked Ljubluana to Hodos, top and tail Hungarian electric locos with 4 carriages made up the Budapest portion. Might be due to track works in Slovenia requiring run round and use of Maribor to Hodos line curve. This arrangement caused train to run 1/2 hr late in Hungary.....

 

[popeter45]

oh another one of mine
ICE 920, listed as a ICE 1 but when ive taken it its a ICE 2 from Frankfurt to Cologne then change to a ICE 1 onwards to Hamburg

 

[SandsofEss]

Ljubluana to Budapest was today split at Hodos. 2 car emu worked Ljubluana to Hodos, top and tail Hungarian electric locos with 4 carriages made up the Budapest portion. Might be due to track works in Slovenia requiring run round and use of Maribor to Hodos line curve. This arrangement caused train to run 1/2 hr late in Hungary.....

That reminds me - Ljubljana to Trieste is advertised as a through train, but involves a change from one MU to another at Villa Opicina (or did last April when we did it).

There is one direct train a day - the loco-hauled Emona EuroCity.

 

[rvdborgt]

That reminds me - Ljubljana to Trieste is advertised as a through train, but involves a change from one MU to another at Villa Opicina (or did last April when we did it).

We did the Trieste-Ljubljana 1.5 years ago with the regional train and that was a through train.