ticket editing/fraud

[jxsmxne17]

fraudulent train tickets and consequences??

hello, i’m sorry to bother and i’m aware i’ve been terribly stupid in what i’ve done here. I’m 17 and frequently purchase train tickets from manchester to nuneaton where my boyfriend lives, at around £40 a ticket, i got a phone call the other day from his mum saying he was in an ambulance to the hospital after a bad fall off his motorbike, i panicked and got a bus to the train station, i purchased a ticket to the next stop on the train that i needed to get on, and edited it to nuneaton, this is the first time i’ve ever done this and only had £12.93 in my account, my ticket was £5 and i got on the train and edited it, the ticket woman came and scanned it and told me i’d be looking at a big fine for fraudulent ticket and then charged me for the correct one, I used my mums bank card (which she knows about and was happy for me to do so as i was in such a panick and understands) and i purchased the correct ticket, the woman took a picture of my edited ticket and told
me i would be hearing from avanti, though she didn’t ask nor did i give her any details of my name or address, i’m absolutely sick to my stomach with nerves and anxiety on what is going to happen, i’m so sorry that i did this but i was in such a panick to get to my boyfriend. she mentioned i could get convicted of fraud and have a criminal record and pay thousands of money in fines if they choose to prosecute me, i’m doing my gcse’s in a few weeks and i’m worried sick that this will ruin my chances of pursuing the career i want to do ☹️ any advice? ive always paid my tickets in full and this is truly a 1 off thing, however i have previously purchased £5 tickets to stockport and actually gotten off at stockport as that is where my auntie lives, can this be used against me?

 

[Ducky88]

I am sure others will be able to give you more advice, @Hadders.

I wouldn't worry too much as its happened now, just put it to the back of your mind and focus on your studies.

The fact is you will be getting a letter, which will sound quite scary and intimidating. The train company in question may offer a out of court settlement or choose to take you to court.

The settlement amount isn't going to be thousands if this is the first time offence. Normally its Anytime adult single for each leg of the journey so if you made a return trip its the single x2. plus a admin fee of £150-200.

Once the letter arrives, attach a copy here but black out any personal details and the reference codes. Then the kind people on this forum can help you proof read your response to them.

But again for now, if the letter hasn't arrived, don't worry about it!

 

[WesternLancer]

fraudulent train tickets and consequences??

hello, i’m sorry to bother and i’m aware i’ve been terribly stupid in what i’ve done here. I’m 17 and frequently purchase train tickets from manchester to nuneaton where my boyfriend lives, at around £40 a ticket, i got a phone call the other day from his mum saying he was in an ambulance to the hospital after a bad fall off his motorbike, i panicked and got a bus to the train station, i purchased a ticket to the next stop on the train that i needed to get on, and edited it to nuneaton, this is the first time i’ve ever done this and only had £12.93 in my account, my ticket was £5 and i got on the train and edited it, the ticket woman came and scanned it and told me i’d be looking at a big fine for fraudulent ticket and then charged me for the correct one, I used my mums bank card (which she knows about and was happy for me to do so as i was in such a panick and understands) and i purchased the correct ticket, the woman took a picture of my edited ticket and told
me i would be hearing from avanti, though she didn’t ask nor did i give her any details of my name or address, i’m absolutely sick to my stomach with nerves and anxiety on what is going to happen, i’m so sorry that i did this but i was in such a panick to get to my boyfriend. she mentioned i could get convicted of fraud and have a criminal record and pay thousands of money in fines if they choose to prosecute me, i’m doing my gcse’s in a few weeks and i’m worried sick that this will ruin my chances of pursuing the career i want to do ☹️ any advice? ive always paid my tickets in full and this is truly a 1 off thing, however i have previously purchased £5 tickets to stockport and actually gotten off at stockport as that is where my auntie lives, can this be used against me?

Hi and welcome - you will get some good advice here but essentially you need to wait to hear from them with a hard copy written letter, and when you get that (it is vital you receive this letter and respond to it or you will get prosecuted but by responding you may be able to avoid that) then you can head back here for the best advice on how to respond and what to do next.

One thing you can do is buy a 16-17 Railcard because that reduces your fares to child rate which is a good way to legally reduce your train fare costs. By doing this now you can show that you have taken steps to 'do the right thing' in future.

Unfortunately by deliberately editing your ticket you have, in the eyes of the railway, done a more serious thing because this is pre meditated / deliberate and planned ticket evasion (not some sort of mistake).

As they did not ask for your name and address they may source that from the ticket purchase and obtain your e-mail address so it is possible they may e-mail you so watch out for e-mails including in spam.

i have previously purchased £5 tickets to stockport and actually gotten off at stockport as that is where my auntie lives, can this be used against me?

The risk is if they think this is suspicious they may ask you about it - but if they do being able to give a relatives address in Stockport would help illustrate that it was your legitimate destination. If these are digital tickets and they get scanned when you go through exit barriers that shows that you did indeed leave the train at that location. So whilst it's not a requirement for your ticket to be scanned in this way (eg sometimes exit barriers might be left open) - if there is a record of such scans then it would obviously help prove that you did indeed leave the train there. I'm assuming Stockport has such barriers of course.

 

[transportphoto]

If it is a one off thing, and you’ve now paid the full fare due, the likelihood is that no prosecution will be brought (especially against a child).

There is a possibility of prosecution for Fraud by False Representation - or similar offence - contrary to the Fraud Act 2005.

What I dare say is more likely is that your online account will be barred from purchasing further tickets.

Do not do this again, though I think you’ve got that message!

 

[skyhigh]

There is a possibility of prosecution for Fraud by False Representation - or similar offence - contrary to the Fraud Act 2005.

Such an absolutely tiny possibility that realistically it can be completely discounted. They're not going to bring a Fraud prosecution against a 17 year old over a single train ticket.

 

[island]

As a new ticket was sold and no details taken, it's likely nothing further will come of this, the train manager was just trying to put the scarers on you. But if you do receive correspondence, it's essential you respond to it. They can access the details you entered on purchasing the online ticket should they wish.

Needless to say it is essential you not try anything like this again.

 

[jxsmxne17]

If it is a one off thing, and you’ve now paid the full fare due, the likelihood is that no prosecution will be brought (especially against a child).

There is a possibility of prosecution for Fraud by False Representation - or similar offence - contrary to the Fraud Act 2005.

What I dare say is more likely is that your online account will be barred from purchasing further tickets.

Do not do this again, though I think you’ve got that message!

i really hope so, i highly regret what i did and i know me being in a panic is no excuse for my actions, i still have the printed ticket she gave me after the purchase of the full price just incase, ive always bought the £40 tickets from avanti and sometimes the discounted train line ones in advance but always paid for my full journey up until the other day

As a new ticket was sold and no details taken, it's likely nothing further will come of this, the train manager was just trying to put the scarers on you. But if you do receive correspondence, it's essential you respond to it. They can access the details you entered on purchasing the online ticket should they wish.

Needless to say it is essential you not try anything like this again.

I hope so, and the scarers definitely have worked! i’m petrified of getting a letter or email about this although i am to expect one, she took a photo of my edited ticket and began typing on her phone, then charged me for the price of a full ticket in which i bought, my biggest worry is i have actually bought the same tickets (man-stockport) before to actually get off at stockport and this is the same ticket i purchased and edited, i’m worried if they investigate me they may be inclined to believe i have done this several times in which i have not

 

[Haywain]

ive always paid my tickets in full and this is truly a 1 off thing, however i have previously purchased £5 tickets to stockport and actually gotten off at stockport as that is where my auntie lives, can this be used against me?

If the train company do investigate this, they are going to see this as quite unlikely. I doubt most people would even know where to start with editing a ticket just minutes after buying it and it is a fact that in such matters it is really rather unlikely that you are caught the very first time you have done it.

 

[Fermiboson]

They can access your details from the e-ticket and online purchase account. For now, no need to worry, and let them do their work. It is highly likely you will not be prosecuted (honestly, probably even if you ignore them - but don’t test this!)

It is a very good idea to review all of your recent purchase histories to see anything they might feel is off. I see you’ve gotten a good start on that already and rest assured the TOC will give you a chance to explain. If you are honest and apologetic, they will be reasonable (to some extent). Chances are that you will not end up being penalised for any fares you have not actually evaded.

The highest amount you are likely to have to pay is a £150 admin fee plus the Anytime Single from Manchester to Nuneaton, which I see is not as extortionate as some other Avanti priced Anytime Singles we’ve seen, all things considered.

If you have in fact done this before then of course the story is completely different.

 

[Titfield]

In the event of court proceedings the burden of proof would be on the prosecution to prove that you had altered and used one or more tickets. They have the one ticket in their possession that was altered and used. They do not have proof of any other wrong doing.The one would be enough proof for a conviction. However as others have stated this is unlikely to proceed to court for a number of reasons including your age.

If you do receive a letter via email or in the post then please post it here with all personal details obscured so that the forum members can give advice.

If you do not receive any communication and thus the matter is resolved you may count yourself fortunate that the matter has gone no further than having to pay for a new ticket.

 

[jxsmxne17]

In the event of court proceedings the burden of proof would be on the prosecution to prove that you had altered and used one or more tickets. They have the one ticket in their possession that was altered and used. They do not have proof of any other wrong doing.The one would be enough proof for a conviction. However as others have stated this is unlikely to proceed to court for a number of reasons including your age.

If you do receive a letter via email or in the post then please post it here with all personal details obscured so that the forum members can give advice.

If you do not receive any communication and thus the matter is resolved you may count yourself fortunate that the matter has gone no further than having to pay for a new ticket.

hi, thank you for the insight, how long do they usually take to email/send a letter? as i will spend quite a while worrying about this even if nothing comes of it which i’m sure it will, i know my actions are not justified by any means and what i did was completely out of order, however i am a massive stresser and have been literally sick with anxiety over how this may come about, again thank you for taking the time to post your knowledge under my thread

 

[glasgowniteowl]

Stockport has ticket barriers as far as I know so will those other tickets to stockport show exit scans at those barriers?

 

[jxsmxne17]

Stockport has ticket barriers as far as I know so will those other tickets to stockport show exit scans at those barriers

Stockport has ticket barriers as far as I know so will those other tickets to stockport show exit scans at those barriers?

yes they do, however i only recall having scanned them a couple of times as for a while the barriers were left open, but i do have taxi history in which i booked from stockport station to my home