Ticket inspector took a picture of my online ticket are they able to track me down?

[neveragain1]

So i never typically take the train, but my car broke down and so have had to, for the last week, have been taking the Thameslink to work.

It's only a 3 stop journey or so, I think there was an event or maybe the weather, but my trains kept getting delayed, my phone said I had another 5 minutes for my train but as I was walking into the station the train was there, I panicked and as the barrier was down I ran onto the train - I figured I'd buy a ticket on an app as I didn't have time to get one at the station. Well I was faffing around with my phone and maybe my bag and about 3 minutes later I look up, and a man is asking me for my ticket.

He sees my look of confusion and begins asking the people parallel to me. For some reason in my head I thought I could quickly buy a ticket and that would be fine as I've only just got on, well I quickly buy a ticket from my stop and show him.

But of course he scans it and it shows that i've only just bought it, I try and reason with him that the train came early and that the barrier was down and I ran out. But he was very aggressive and was stating that I should have bought a valid ticket before I got on the train and that I had the three minutes whilst on the train to buy one. He then started asking for my personal details and I froze up a bit, I'm not confrontational at all and the whole situation was a complete accident and for whatever reason I stupidly gave him the wrong name and address. He then printed out a fine for me and took a picture of my ticket.

Now here's where I'm confused, I very quickly realised after about 5 minutes of cooling down, that I messed up, and I should have not given him false information as I'm very able to pay the £50 odd pound fine, However it quickly dawned on me that If I go to pay for this fine then I'll open a whole can of worms as I provided a fake name/address, and surely I'll have to put my correct details on record to pay for it? and since reading online, I've discovered that providing a false name/address is a bigger concern than the actual ticket fare evasion itself?

I asked a couple of friends, they said to forget about it as he's not got my name nor my address - but then he's also taken a picture of my barcode ticket. When I go on the app my name isn't attached to the app and it's only done through Apple Pay, but is there a way for them to track it back to me?

I've spent way too long stressing about what I should do, so would just like for some extra clarification and help.

Have since prebooked all of my train tickets to avoid this situation ever again.

Thank you.

 

[AlterEgo]

Before we go any further, just how incorrect are the details on the notice? Is it a totally fictitious address, a neighbour, or something plausibly similar to your own details?

 

[jon0844]

If they captured the Aztec code then they can potentially get your details from that, and establish you gave false details.

 

[neveragain1]

The Address is a real place, DoB and Name are made up.


To make things worse I’m unable to find my actual fine itself now. So if I contact them I don’t have anything to reference. Gonna look tomorrow but I think I’m genuinely ****ed.

 

[Haywain]

If you have been issued a Penalty Fare Notice the best thing you can do is pay it, and that will be the end of the matter.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

If you have been issued a Penalty Fare Notice the best thing you can do is pay it, and that will be the end of the matter.

Indeed, but how can the OP do this, noting the below?

To make things worse I’m unable to find my actual fine itself now. So if I contact them I don’t have anything to reference.

 

[Skymonster]

You committed one “crime” by boarding a train without a ticket, and another when you gave a false name and address. Thing is, the train company can indeed potentially track you down from the ticket via your payment method or account with the ticket seller. They’ll write anyway - and possibly not get a response if they write to the wrong address. Potentially then it’ll escalate to court action in your absence. And eventually either the train company or the court could track you down, by which time things may be worse (potential criminal record, much larger costs) than they need have been. Train companies and courts dealing with miscreants can be like dogs with bones: they don’t give them up easily.

There’s still a chance that the train company will agree to settle without going to court if you can get your communications aligned. But it’s likely going to cost you more than the £50 you mentioned now. If the train company agrees to a settlement its likely to cost you the single fare you didn’t pay (no allowance for anything you already paid) plus a contribution to the tinvestigation costs which is likely to amount to between £100 and £200. Still cheaper for you than a court imposed fine but…

So despite things having become more complicated and probably more expensive than they need have been, it is still likely to be in your best interest to try to sort this out rather than ignore it and hope it goes away.

 

[Haywain]

Indeed, but how can the OP do this, noting the below?

OK, if they find it they should pay it.

 

[AlterEgo]

The Penalty Fare is in someone else’s name with another address. It’s unlikely there will be consequences for the OP if it is unpaid.

The train company will find it extremely difficult to track the OP down. Even if they find who purchased the ticket, the train company has failed to properly identify the traveller.

 

[Haywain]

The Penalty Fare is in someone else’s name with another address. It’s unlikely there will be consequences for the OP if it is unpaid.

The train company will find it extremely difficult to track the OP down. Even if they find who purchased the ticket, the train company has failed to properly identify the traveller.

If the OP wants to put a stop to any risk of prosecution, paying the Penalty Fare will be the best way of doing so.
It will be very difficult to deny that a ticket purchased 2 or 3 minutes before the Penalty Fare was issued was used by someone else.

 

[185]

The train company will find it extremely difficult to track the OP down. Even if they find who purchased the ticket, the train company has failed to properly identify the traveller.

Payment cardholder's name and address are visible to third party ticketing agents. To retain their accreditation, the agent must supply these to train company fraud units when suitable grounds (ie fraud) are alleged. As such, the above quote is rather incorrect.

 

[AlterEgo]

If the OP wants to put a stop to any risk of prosecution, paying the Penalty Fare will be the best way of doing so.
It will be very difficult to deny that a ticket purchased 2 or 3 minutes before the Penalty Fare was issued was used by someone else.

I think what is more likely is that nothing will happen as a result. We’ve never seen any train company go to the effort of tracing a ticket purchaser and asking if it was them that travelled because there’s a Penalty Fare attached to the case.

In practice, train companies need to stop and identify correctly the people they are prosecuting for travel irregularities. It’s too bad the train company didn’t in this case. They deal with all these things by volume. People give false details all the time, and they give other people’s details even, who then get contacted. “Wasn’t me” is sufficient to stave off action.

The train company will process the Penalty Fare as with all the thousands of others it has, letters will go to some address for a made up person, and then once nothing happens it’ll be closed. Or maybe they’ll eventually ask the retailer of the ticket for the purchaser’s details, but all it’ll show is someone’s card was used to buy a ticket. And then what? Nothing can happen.

TL;DR: train companies need to correctly identify the traveller at the time to have a reasonable chance of prosecution or further action.

 

[RPI]

I think what is more likely is that nothing will happen as a result. We’ve never seen any train company go to the effort of tracing a ticket purchaser and asking if it was them that travelled because there’s a Penalty Fare attached to the case.

In practice, train companies need to stop and identify correctly the people they are prosecuting for travel irregularities. It’s too bad the train company didn’t in this case. They deal with all these things by volume. People give false details all the time, and they give other people’s details even, who then get contacted. “Wasn’t me” is sufficient to stave off action.

The train company will process the Penalty Fare as with all the thousands of others it has, letters will go to some address for a made up person, and then once nothing happens it’ll be closed. Or maybe they’ll eventually ask the retailer of the ticket for the purchaser’s details, but all it’ll show is someone’s card was used to buy a ticket. And then what? Nothing can happen.

TL;DR: train companies need to correctly identify the traveller at the time to have a reasonable chance of prosecution or further action.

That's quite dangerous advice to give to someone, it is incredibly easy to track a person from a ticket scan, this won't be done until such time as the 21 days has passed and it has been passed to the prosecutions team. Different TOC's operate differently, but any that process their penalty fares in house will more than likely follow it up.

 

[AlterEgo]

That's quite dangerous advice to give to someone, it is incredibly easy to track a person from a ticket scan, this won't be done until such time as the 21 days has passed and it has been passed to the prosecutions team. Different TOC's operate differently, but any that process their penalty fares in house will more than likely follow it up.

Can you cite any examples on the forum of anyone being tracked by a photo of their ticket, and prosecuted?

The train company can’t take any meaningful action by only knowing who purchased the ticket. That’s why revenue protection staff have to take steps to identify who they have actually stopped.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

People give false details all the time, and they give other people’s details even, who then get contacted. “Wasn’t me” is sufficient to stave off action.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/letter-reporting-dependant-for-non-payment-of-fare.268071/ would seem to suggest otherwise. I appreciate that is the person whose details were wrongly given rather than the person giving the false details and probably a different railway company too, but it does suggest rather more rigour by the railway than is suggested here as a reason not to worry.

We can't absolutely reassure the OP that the railway cannot or will not pursue them. But all the evidence from previous posts to this forum is that if they pay the penalty fare then that will be the end of the matter. So the safe advice is that the OP should make the effort to find the penalty fare notice, pay it, and then have peace of mind.

 

[Wolfie]

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/letter-reporting-dependant-for-non-payment-of-fare.268071/ would seem to suggest otherwise. I appreciate that is the person whose details were wrongly given rather than the person giving the false details and probably a different railway company too, but it does suggest rather more rigour by the railway than is suggested here as a reason not to worry.

We can't absolutely reassure the OP that the railway cannot or will not pursue them. But all the evidence from previous posts to this forum is that if they pay the penalty fare then that will be the end of the matter. So the safe advice is that the OP should make the effort to find the penalty fare notice, pay it, and then have peace of mind.

Good advice. If it is paid the TOC have no incentive to do any more. If it isn't then who knows....

 

[AlterEgo]

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/letter-reporting-dependant-for-non-payment-of-fare.268071/ would seem to suggest otherwise. I appreciate that is the person whose details were wrongly given rather than the person giving the false details and probably a different railway company too, but it does suggest rather more rigour by the railway than is suggested here as a reason not to worry.

That’s just someone who gave someone else’s details on the train. “Tell the police” advice there was rightly rebuffed as they aren’t going to be bothered. What sort of rigour is demonstrated by that thread? The train company didn’t identify the passenger and just sent a letter out, and “wasn’t me” is a sufficient reply as they didn’t identify the miscreant.

We can't absolutely reassure the OP that the railway cannot or will not pursue them. But all the evidence from previous posts to this forum is that if they pay the penalty fare then that will be the end of the matter. So the safe advice is that the OP should make the effort to find the penalty fare notice, pay it, and then have peace of mind.

Of course. That gives them peace of mind, no doubt. And the railway gets £50 from a wrongly issued Penalty Fare which was made out to someone who isn’t the OP.

I really hate to break the smoke and mirrors but a lot of enforcement in this country is done using vague threats rather than a realistic appraisal of what is possible. See TV Licensing. It’s only the consenting who are prosecuted, who dumbly let the inspectors in.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

. What sort of rigour is demonstrated by that thread?

That the railway don't just take 'wasn't me' as a sufficient answer: they seek further evidence.

 

[AlterEgo]

That the railway don't just take 'wasn't me' as a sufficient answer: they seek further evidence.

Which the recipient of the letter isn’t bound to give and proceedings can’t commence anyway.

Payment cardholder's name and address are visible to third party ticketing agents. To retain their accreditation, the agent must supply these to train company fraud units when suitable grounds (ie fraud) are alleged. As such, the above quote is rather incorrect.

Untrue. Substitute “train company fraud units” for “police” and that would be correct. I am fairly sure the forum ticketing site does not give away user or purchaser data to other private companies if they have specious allegations of “fraud”. Trainpal (CTrip) certainly doesn’t.

 

[185]

Specious

1. : having a false look of truth or genuineness : sophistic. specious reasoning. 2. : having deceptive attraction or allure.

If fraud has taken quite clearly taken place, an agent should react appropriately to an operators request - and not become a party to that fraud by obstructing their investigation.

 

[AlterEgo]

1. : having a false look of truth or genuineness : sophistic. specious reasoning. 2. : having deceptive attraction or allure.

If fraud has taken quite clearly taken place, an agent should react appropriately to an operators request - and not become a party to that fraud by obstructing their investigation.

Should not must.

Declining to share customer data with a private company who reckons they’ve been wronged is not obstructing anything. They do not become a party to the fraud either. If it’s really fraud just get the police, and then there can be no arguments short GDPR or data sharing.

 

[neveragain1]

After crawling through multiple bins, brushing maggots and old food aside, I've finally found the fine.

Not sure how it ended up in the bin, but nonetheless it's hardly eligible what is on the fine, the barcode is still partially printed on it but doesn't scan, and the other details are pretty destroyed.

I've still got about two weeks or so to pay it before it would increase in fee, and then I'm not sure how long after that, if anything would commence, if it did at all.

 

[Pushpit]

If the reference number is clear enough, then you best pay up ASAP if you want peace of mind, particularly if you and the address you gave receive nothing within 6 months. If you do otherwise the range of outcomes could be fairly significant. You will probably find another penalty fare from Thameslink elsewhere in this forum, if you need more information, but the core information is

• Sending a cheque or postal order to the payment address on the notice (with the notice included). Please do not send cash through the post.
• Paying online at payments.gtrailway.com
• Via Phone on 0330 095 9327 (Monday to Friday 10:00 – 16:30)

Attention to detail here will be important, in other words check and check again that you have the right reference number.

 

[Titfield]

If you have been issued with a Penalty Fare Notice or equivalent then IMHO it would make sense to contact the TOC to see if they can trace its full number so it can be paid.
(If they cant trace it then I wonder if they would allow you to still pay the £50 so that the payment has been made and that would give you some comfort).

But the choice is yours: endeavour to pay it so the matter is concluded and you have the comfort of knowing that it is paid OR not paying it and hoping that it doesnt come back and bite you at some future point in time.

What are the chances of the TOC tracing you? I do not know it could be infinitessimally small. I suppose your decision is based on your view of that risk.

 

[Brissle Girl]

I am fairly sure the forum ticketing site does not give away user or purchaser data to other private companies if they have specious allegations of “fraud”. Trainpal (CTrip) certainly doesn’t.

Just trying to understand this. Are you saying that Trainpal is not obliged to give relevant personal information to train operating companies if the latter ask for it because they suspect that tickets bought via Trainpal are being used fraudulently?

 

[AlterEgo]

Just trying to understand this. Are you saying that Trainpal is not obliged to give relevant personal information to train operating companies if the latter ask for it because they suspect that tickets bought via Trainpal are being used fraudulently?

Yes.

They’d have to divulge the information to the police, but if a train company comes running to ask the retailer to spill purchaser details, they are not *obliged* to. I am reasonably sure I have also read a post from a representative of the forum’s site saying they would not divulge purchaser or historic transaction data to a train company if an expired railcard was reported.

On the other hand Trainline, which sees a lot of irregular activity, actively monitors customer accounts for suspicious purchases. I believe this may be to internal political pressure on the company to reduce ticket irregularities.

 

[Brissle Girl]

Curiously I see Trainpal’s Terms and Conditions are governed by Hong Kong Law in the event of any dispute. Not sure I’ll be signing up to them anytime soon.

 

[WesternLancer]

If you have been issued with a Penalty Fare Notice or equivalent then IMHO it would make sense to contact the TOC to see if they can trace its full number so it can be paid.
(If they cant trace it then I wonder if they would allow you to still pay the £50 so that the payment has been made and that would give you some comfort).

But the choice is yours: endeavour to pay it so the matter is concluded and you have the comfort of knowing that it is paid OR not paying it and hoping that it doesnt come back and bite you at some future point in time.

What are the chances of the TOC tracing you? I do not know it could be infinitessimally small. I suppose your decision is based on your view of that risk.

I’m just mindful of the recent case on here where what was probably an unpaid penalty fare from northern trains that could have been sorted out for £50 seemed to end up with court debt collectors after £700+ finally finding the guy concerned 5 years later by which the sum had got to £700+

 

[AlterEgo]

I’m just mindful of the recent case on here where what was probably an unpaid penalty fare from northern trains that could have been sorted out for £50 seemed to end up with court debt collectors after £700+ finally finding the guy concerned 5 years later by which the sum had got to £700+

The person involved there gave the correct details and was identified as the passenger committing the offence, and was prosecuted in their absence. An abundantly simple case.

In this case the train company have failed to identify the passenger on the train, who gave false details of a non-existent person, and their options for making any sort of inroads with this matter are very limited. This isn't the Pinkertons you're dealing with. Identifying a passenger is not that difficult, as the RPI can, if they are bothered, validate the details with electoral roll and credit score data - this is all they have to work with as we don't mandate carrying ID in this country. Evidently the RPI did not do that for whatever reason and that is too bad for the train company.

Depending on who the OP booked with the retailer may even tell the train company to bugger off and no they may not have their details, not that having that information is of much relevance to finding out which of the 70 million people living in this country they stopped on their train anyway.

However if it will make everyone feel better then the OP is at liberty to relieve themselves of fifty pounds to pay a Penalty Fare which, on the face of it, was issued wrongly anyway, as they had a valid ticket and even showed it to the RPI, who helpfully took a picture as evidence of the same.

 

[furlong]

a Penalty Fare which, on the face of it, was issued wrongly anyway, as they had a valid ticket and even showed it to the RPI, who helpfully took a picture as evidence of the same.

It's a little unclear, but the description suggests it might have been purchased AFTER it was asked to be shown - that would allow a PF to be issued, but the inspector ought to have made a contemporaneous note of the words used (or have evidence on camera) so as to easily rebut an appeal on this point.