Ticket Inspectors onboard buses.

[stadler]

I came across this tweet recently on Twitter which showed that First in Bristol now have ticket inspectors onboard their buses:

https://twitter.com/char1iewatts/status/1766819946204434876?t=D2UwJDx_13XA0g1myxQj5Q&s=19

Unbelievable! 'Revenue protection officers' on Bristol buses? Is this a serious thing? Are we living in a controlling state now? They should be checking the departure boards to make sure the buses show up on time instead of bothering passengers

Looking on their website they also have an article mentioning ticket inspectors being rolled out:

Our Revenue Protection Officers

From Friday 1st March, we'll be introducing Revenue Protection Officers on board our buses in the West of England.

www.firstbus.co.uk

Our Revenue Protection Officers​

From Friday 1st March, we'll be introducing Revenue Protection Officers on board our buses in the West of England.

Revenue protection officers will be regularly riding on our bus network to ensure everyone is travelling with a valid/ correctly issued ticket. Any tickets purchased from the driver must be retained throughout the journey, and any tickets on our First Bus App must be valid and ready to show.

When travelling, please have your ticket ready to show - this might be:

• A valid printed ticket for your journey
• A valid ticket on the First Bus App
• A valid bus pass
• A concessionary bus pass
• The credit/debit card or the contactless device you used for Tap On, Tap Off journeys
• Any other valid travel document

You must also be ready to show any ID associated with your travel ticket, for example your student ID or First Photo ID pass.

If you're unable to show a valid ticket to travel or the required ID for your ticket our Revenue Protection Officers will issue a standard fare charge of £50.

What is the point of having ticket inspectors onboard buses? Surely this makes no sense? You can not board the bus without either purchasing a ticket from the driver or showing a ticket to the driver or scanning a pass on the reader. So fare evasion is practically impossible onboard buses.

Maybe i can kind of understand on TFL buses which have rear doors where people might sneak on without the driver seeing. Also the drivers on TFL buses rarely seem to be properly paying attention to any ticket you show them. But on buses outside of London fare evasion is practically impossible. It is not like a train or a tram.

The only thing i can think of is passengers buying a Single or Return ticket for a shorter distance or a Day ticket for a smaller zone and then travelling further to save money. But surely the amount of money lost to passengers doing that is far less than the cost of employing ticket inspectors.

Also does anyone know what other bus operators have ticket inspectors? I am wondering if some other big operators like Arriva and First and Go Ahead and Stagecoach have them in certain areas? I have driven buses in the past but only for smaller independent operators and obviously we have never had them. So i am guessing that it is something that really only exists on large bus operators.

 

[Gloster]

In twenty years I have only seen two inspections on Southern Vectis. One was by a chap who said he covered the whole of the Go-Ahead South area and appeared to be just moving about at random. The other was by two of the island’s inspectors on the approach to Newport and was, I suspect, more of a check on the driver. More than forty years I go I was told by someone in the Bristol Omnibus Company (yes, that long ago) that the checks were normally on one driver, but they would do a load of different drivers to disguise the fact that they were targeting one.

Nowadays there can’t be many opportunities for passengers to cheat the company: passes, cards and flat fare have reduced overtravelling. Tech means that two people using the same card on the same journey (drop it out of the window to you mate) is no longer possible, or so I understand. There probably are some fiddles, rather than blatant cheating like using somebody else’s ENCTS card, but most probably would involve the connivance of the driver.

 

[Megafuss]

Reading the original tweet, I'm reminded that people should use language more appropriately as it devalues the meaning.

I didn't realise checking bus tickets was evidence of a "controlling state", but there we are

 

[Ostrich]

National Express West Midlands certainly had them when I lived in Birmingham 2000-2015. The north-bound stops at 6 Ways Erdington were frequently used as a location for on-board inspections, and I'm pretty sure a drug sniffer dog would occassionally embark on a quick tour of both decks ......

It was really a combination of revenue protection and a high-visibility response to anti-social behaviour.

 

[Lewisham2221]

There's still plenty of opportunity for fare evasion on board buses.

Overriding on single and return tickets. Travelling "out of area" on day/week etc tickets that are only valid for certain zones. Adults using mobile apps to purchase child/student rate tickets which they aren’t entitled to. Passback examples are less common now that most tickets are scanned with with a qr code, but it's still possible with some ticket types.

 

[GusB]

First of all, it's not a sign of a controlling state; nor is having inspectors on buses a new thing. They were around when I was a kid and had been for a long time before that. It could be argued that their presence then was to police the drivers more than the passengers.

There is simply more opportunity for fare evasion now. In the days when you boarded and asked the driver for your ticket, you could be challenged. Concessions and other passes had to be shown to the driver who would have to check that your face matched that on the card. With it all being electronic these days, that's more or less done with. We have mobile tickets these days, too; the ticket machine may give an affirmative beep when this is scanned, but it could be that someone is using the wrong ticket. If you were to insist that the driver had to check every ticket, you'd end up slowing down the boarding process.

It's not unreasonable for a bus company to want to protect its revenue, and First has clearly decided that the problem is big enough to warrant the re-introduction of inspectors.

 

[Simon75]

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[renegademaster]

I very rarely see London drivers challenge someone for walking past them without a ticket anymore and I don't really blame them

 

[High Dyke]

Inspectors certainly aren't a new authoritarian state role. I drove buses over twenty years ago and we had them then. I do agree that it's more difficult to dodge fare paying on a bus though.

An experience from my past though, when it was easier to milk the system.

Town service one day and passenger gets on, pays their fare but doesn't collect the ticket. I knowingly sell it to the next passenger. My heart sinks a few stops later as the inspector boards the bus. I drive on as he does his checks. Gets to the aforementioned passenger who starts searching his pockets. Inspector allows him time to search whilst he continues checking the bus. At this point the lady opposite passes her ticket over to the other passenger. The inspector checks that and alights at the next stop with everything signed in.order.

 

[Lewisham2221]

First of all, it's not a sign of a controlling state; nor is having inspectors on buses a new thing. They were around when I was a kid and had been for a long time before that. It could be argued that their presence then was to police the drivers more than the passengers.

There is simply more opportunity for fare evasion now. In the days when you boarded and asked the driver for your ticket, you could be challenged. Concessions and other passes had to be shown to the driver who would have to check that your face matched that on the card. With it all being electronic these days, that's more or less done with. We have mobile tickets these days, too; the ticket machine may give an affirmative beep when this is scanned, but it could be that someone is using the wrong ticket. If you were to insist that the driver had to check every ticket, you'd end up slowing down the boarding process.

It's not unreasonable for a bus company to want to protect its revenue, and First has clearly decided that the problem is big enough to warrant the re-introduction of inspectors.

Indeed. For what's it's worth, this seems to be a national thing with First, what I think started with the South West part of the business is now being rolled out in the Midlands and Yorkshire too. All the publicity I've seen seems to make the point of saying that they are checking passengers have the right ticket, rather than a ticket, which very much suggests where the problem lies.

 

[Geordie driver]

Inspectors or revenue protection are mainly there to catch drivers fiddling.

One driver fiddling takes much more money than the odd fare avoiding passenger.

 

[Lewisham2221]

Inspectors or revenue protection are mainly there to catch drivers fiddling.

One driver fiddling takes much more money than the odd fare avoiding passenger.

In the old days, yes. Nowadays not so much. There's not much to fiddle when the vast majority of your ticket sales are debit card or app based. This is very much about people travelling with tickets, albeit tickets that - for one reason or another - are not valid for the journey they are making.

 

[dvboy]

National Express West Midlands certainly had them when I lived in Birmingham 2000-2015. The north-bound stops at 6 Ways Erdington were frequently used as a location for on-board inspections, and I'm pretty sure a drug sniffer dog would occassionally embark on a quick tour of both decks ......

It was really a combination of revenue protection and a high-visibility response to anti-social behaviour.

Still do, I had the same guy check me as I got off at the same stop two days running last week.

 

[M803UYA]

In the old days, yes. Nowadays not so much. There's not much to fiddle when the vast majority of your ticket sales are debit card or app based. This is very much about people travelling with tickets, albeit tickets that - for one reason or another - are not valid for the journey they are making.

Oldest dodge of the lot is not to issue the ticket, and accept the money. I've seen it done, even comparatively recently.

 

[Lewisham2221]

Oldest dodge of the lot is not to issue the ticket, and accept the money. I've seen it done, even comparatively recently.

Quite. But when you only sell a single figure amount of cash tickets in a day, and some of those are day or weekly tickets or returns where you can't get away without issuing the tickets, it's slim pickings for any driver that way inclined.

 

[Simon75]

I've seen drivers letting on people for free when no change or out off date concession passes

 

[WelshBluebird]

Especially in Bristol there is a massive issue of people buying student tickets on the app despite not being eligible for them. It is that kind of ticket fraud that they are trying to clamp down on.

 

[SSmith2009]

Around my local area (Leicester) inspectors have been introduced by First to prevent fraudulent use.

I believe they have a way of logging fare evasions on the ticketer machines

Especially in Bristol there is a massive issue of people buying student tickets on the app despite not being eligible for them. It is that kind of ticket fraud that they are trying to clamp down on.

Same here in Leicester.

 

[kkong]

Especially in Bristol there is a massive issue of people buying student tickets on the app despite not being eligible for them. It is that kind of ticket fraud that they are trying to clamp down on.

First Aberdeen's ticketer machines show an amber LED when a student ticket is scanned and the drivers - almost without exception in my experience - demand to see a student ID card.

Although how difficult it is to produce a fake student ID card is another matter.

 

[M803UYA]

Quite. But when you only sell a single figure amount of cash tickets in a day, and some of those are day or weekly tickets or returns where you can't get away without issuing the tickets, it's slim pickings for any driver that way inclined.

It's also not worth doing as you will inevitably be found out. One firm I worked in I was driving a college service which took some on bus cash fares. Knowing the bus was wired with CCTV I did what the company expected me to do with the takings. Over the course of a week it was around £100 cash takings being paid. Every driver put on after I went didn't pay that much in. They laid a nice trap for my depot supervisor to walk straight into once they twigged... Never worth it!

 

[JD2168]

Ticket inspectors are used by First South Yorkshire on their buses. Usually go around in pairs checking tickets when on the bus. With the uniform they wear you would think they are police officers.

 

[Towers]

Presumably any ‘penalty’ issued is done so under contract law, in the same manner as a privately issued parking ticket? Which may or may not lead to Firstgroup chasing non-payment via the courts?

One scam which was I suspect very common back in the day was the issuing of a concessionary pass (free) ticket to passengers who were actually paying a fare. A relative caught a driver in the act, boarding with a slightly well oiled friend after the pub one evening, when said friend took an interest in why it said “Free”, or words to that effect, on his ticket!

 

[didbygraham]

fare evasion does still go on and its not that difficult to those who have the confidence to try it. Its quite easy at busy times when lots of passengers are trying to get on. The driver cant see everything. I for one welcome more inspectors back onto buses.

 

[TUC]

I came across this tweet recently on Twitter which showed that First in Bristol now have ticket inspectors onboard their buses:

https://twitter.com/char1iewatts/status/1766819946204434876?t=D2UwJDx_13XA0g1myxQj5Q&s=19

Looking on their website they also have an article mentioning ticket inspectors being rolled out:

Our Revenue Protection Officers

From Friday 1st March, we'll be introducing Revenue Protection Officers on board our buses in the West of England.

www.firstbus.co.uk

What is the point of having ticket inspectors onboard buses? Surely this makes no sense? You can not board the bus without either purchasing a ticket from the driver or showing a ticket to the driver or scanning a pass on the reader. So fare evasion is practically impossible onboard buses.

Maybe i can kind of understand on TFL buses which have rear doors where people might sneak on without the driver seeing. Also the drivers on TFL buses rarely seem to be properly paying attention to any ticket you show them. But on buses outside of London fare evasion is practically impossible. It is not like a train or a tram.

The only thing i can think of is passengers buying a Single or Return ticket for a shorter distance or a Day ticket for a smaller zone and then travelling further to save money. But surely the amount of money lost to passengers doing that is far less than the cost of employing ticket inspectors.

Also does anyone know what other bus operators have ticket inspectors? I am wondering if some other big operators like Arriva and First and Go Ahead and Stagecoach have them in certain areas? I have driven buses in the past but only for smaller independent operators and obviously we have never had them. So i am guessing that it is something that really only exists on large bus operators.

I'm intrigued how some are unaware of how common ticket inspectors fairly recently were, and only those with a wider agenda would even dream of it being anything to do with a controling state. The rest of us would think 'if you object this, I assume you're trying to cheat'.

 

[Geordie driver]

In the old days, yes. Nowadays not so much. There's not much to fiddle when the vast majority of your ticket sales are debit card or app based.

Aye, you are right, jobs ruined.

Seriously, they must be losing a heck of a lot of revenue to fare evasion to make it worth their while sending a team out.

And it will be a team, even then they will not be permitted to confront anyone.

In 20 years service bus I never saw a penalty fare issued. Or heard from any other driver of one being issued.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I've seen drivers letting on people for free when no change or out off date concession passes

That's fine. Drivers aren't told off for good customer service. What isn't fine is passengers paying, but not getting a ticket! But that's very rare now.

 

[Tetchytyke]

In 20 years service bus I never saw a penalty fare issued. Or heard from any other driver of one being issued.

Stagecoach Newcastle issued quite a few, especially on the 1 up through Heaton. They also discovered a nice little scam run by a few Northumbria students who were cheerfully photocopying Uniriders.

 

[Mwanesh]

Fare evasion is actually common. In the West Midlands drivers are not allowed to confront passengers. You just let them on. Even if an adult wants a child day ticket you just sell them one. Student tickets are also a target. They are sold at a discount. Inspectors only check tickets don't even bother drivers anymore.

 

[WM Bus]

Fare evasion is actually common. In the West Midlands drivers are not allowed to confront passengers. You just let them on. Even if an adult wants a child day ticket you just sell them one. Student tickets are also a target. They are sold at a discount. Inspectors only check tickets don't even bother drivers anymore.

You still see the odd driver confront it, but most don't.
Revenue inspections seem to mostly happen in the City, Bordesley Station, Millenium Point etc. There was a man on my bus the other day arguing over a child ticket he had purchased with his card. He was told by the inspector its his fault as he agreed to purchase it and would have seen what it said on the scanner.
Not long ago scanning of M tickets was introduced due to fakes/screenshots being used I think, some people cover the dates on tickets, pretend their phones dead or it won't scan and not scratching the date off on scratch cards used to be another one

Even then quite a few go straight on without showing anything at all and start smoking at the back of the top deck, including two homeless druggies I saw recently.

In the West Midlands the drivers don't carry change as well, as it goes in the chute and is exact fare only.

 

[Mwanesh]

You still see the odd driver confront it, but most don't.
Revenue inspections seem to mostly happen in the City, Bordesley Station, Millenium Point etc. There was a man on my bus the other day arguing over a child ticket he had purchased with his card. He was told by the inspector its his fault as he agreed to purchase it and would have seen what it said on the scanner.
Not long ago scanning of M tickets was introduced due to fakes/screenshots being used I think, some people cover the dates on tickets, pretend their phones dead or it won't scan and not scratching the date off on scratch cards used to be another one

Even then quite a few go straight on without showing anything at all and start smoking at the back of the top deck, including two homeless druggies I saw recently.

In the West Midlands the drivers don't carry change as well, as it goes in the chute and is exact fare only.

Exactly one of the reasons. Inspectors have actually been increased. That's their job am just a driver. It's funny when passengers get caught and say I saw the ticket their phone is dead. They try to blame the driver instead of just accepting their fate.