Ticket machine interface design

[lkpridgeon]

Yes, but it needs to be an actual national system, and it needs to be multi-mode (i.e. one card for all trains, trams, buses and other public transport anywhere in the UK). Also, if you have a smartcard, why not abolish the concept of buying tickets at all, and just operate a pay-as-you-go system.

Currently, ITSO cards are crippled, sometimes intentionally, sometimes by shortcomings in the system, to the point that I don't feel comfortable relying on them at all.

I think this is mainly an issue of false/too high expectations from the system... I can agree with an ITSO card being usable with all train operators (technically already is just not spoken about). However I don't see why it needs to be multi mode, this would only really be possible in PTE areas and can already be seen to work with the current standard via the likes of the west midlands swift card (soon to be tram, train and bus).

Pay-as-you go over long distances would be a big no no due to revenue risk and security. Currently pay-as-you-go schemes I've seen such as SWR's tap2go there's not really any way to exceed the contactless limit and if a journey isn't completed they have a policy of £25 unless they manage to guess a lower amount (72 hr period for you to question it before they take the money).

They are only really crippled right now due to the fact we're trying to do more than purchase and load a ticket to them meaning validators are needed at most stations for a flow to work. Once we get validators or drop the stupid idea that pre-loaded tickets need validating/completing then there's no reason that I can see going from my experiments using them across the country that they shouldn't be able to be used nationally from/to any station. The limitations that are there right now are policies and soft technical (older ticket machines checking that it's their tocs card).

The current setup is probably like m-tickets where there was unnecessary safeguards in place to prevent re-use of a ticket even though it is possible to do so with a physical ticket. From what I understand now though is that a record of when it has been checked is now kept on the card and in the backoffice that essentially solves this problem that currently in their eyes requires readers at every station.

I'm convinced they work quite well as a system as I've been using them near off daily for years. And whilst there's definitely quirks, it's mainly when I try to do something complicated like 3 point journeys (A-B-C-A) where I have a ticket from A-B and use payg from B-C with a season C-A

 

[py_megapixel]

I think this is mainly an issue of false/too high expectations from the system... I can agree with an ITSO card being usable with all train operators (technically already is just not spoken about). However I don't see why it needs to be multi mode, this would only really be possible in PTE areas and can already be seen to work with the current standard via the likes of the west midlands swift card (soon to be tram, train and bus).

But, as you've identified, they are all compatible. They're already multi-mode because they're all ITSO cards. As far as I'm aware, virtually every single PTE in the country which has a smartcard scheme and isn't TfL uses ITSO. Every bus company which provides smartcards for its passengers uses ITSO. Every TOC uses ITSO. And ITSO supports both models - the stored-value PAYG model, and the preloaded tickets. The only thing stopping them from all working together is software locks, and those should have been against the rules from the beginning. In fact, I'm going to go a step further and say that the cards should never have even had the provision for the card issuer to be encoded in them.

The reason it needs to be multi-mode is that if we want to encourage public transport use, we need to encourage switching between modes. There is no way you can ever provide a convenient service from everywhere to everywhere with the same mode, which is why multiple modes exist in the first place. The easier we make it to switch between modes, the more places people perceive they can get to by public transport, so the less likely they are to just give up and use the car.

If I'm on a trip from (say) Leeds to Manchester, I should be able to carry one card, and load onto it (or even better, 'pay as I go' for) the bus from wherever in Leeds to Leeds station, the train from Leeds to Manchester Victoria, and the tram or bus from Victoria to wherever I am staying in Manchester.

 

[CarltonA]

I am led to wonder why there is such an obsession with customers completing the arduous and in many cases superfluous journey planner step.
Is it perhaps to force the customer to specify which train they are travelling on, so that if it's marked as "reservations only" they can be required to make a reservation before continuing?

I purchased an Oxford Off Peak Day Return from a TVM at Gerrards Cross. I was forced to go through the journey planner rigmarole as usual. In fact I intended to take an earlier train and change at High Wycombe instead of the later Banbury service (change at Haddenham) which the machine insisted upon (due to connection time I expect). Bizarrely, I was made to go through a reservations routine for a Cross Country service between Banbury and Oxford. Of course I neglected to use the reservation coupon.

 

[Zooty]

Thats the problem they are like chalk and cheese. With the Smartcard ticket you need to tap in tap out. No need to do that with an eTicket.

I'm still not seeing it.
For pay as you go or carnet type tickets, yes you would need to tap in/out.
But for 'normal' walk-up ticket types, SOR/SVR/SDS/etc then you can just store the ticket reference on the smart card rather than in a PDF. What's the difference? Chalk and chalk.