Ticket Office closures no longer going ahead

[Agent_Squash]

The tragic thing is some will really believe that he marched up to Mark Harper who stepped in personally after this ' lobbying 'to save Ulverstons ticket office.

To be fair on him, he did actually meet with Mark Harper!

https://x.com/simonfell/status/1678506237380403200?s=46&t=2MqIc6ss40BU823vMsj_Sw

Also with the ORR and disability campaigners, encouraging people to leave feedback on the consultation.

https://x.com/simonfell/status/1697298833288429743?s=46&t=2MqIc6ss40BU823vMsj_Sw

It's not just a case of shouting against the government publicly...

 

[WelshBluebird]

It's not just a case of shouting against the government publicly...

Of course he still failed to mention in those tweets that the policy was government policy (he seemingly has tried to blame Northern through all of it, which either means he is hopelessly clueless about who is pulling the strings, or knows but doesn't want to publicly acknowledge it - not sure which is worse!).

 

[Agent_Squash]

Of course he still failed to mention in those tweets that the policy was government policy (he seemingly has tried to blame Northern through all of it, which either means he is hopelessly clueless about who is pulling the strings, or knows but doesn't want to publicly acknowledge it - not sure which is worse!).

The whole consultation was setup behind smokescreens to allow government MPs to pass blame to TOCs - I think that's fair to say.

But in the grand scale of opposing the government, one ticket office in the constituency (especially when your other is remaining open) isn't necessarily worth kicking a PR war off over.

 

[island]

Spoke to a friend this morning who's an accessibility manager at a TOC. General mood is utter fury at having to waste time and money slapping together these plans on DfT orders only to then get gaslighted into being blamed for the whole saga.

This could have been a lot of things, but it was definitely not gaslighting.

 

[jon0844]

They're all at it, there's clearly been a message sent down from above. I saw the MP for Accrington did the same bit on Facebook, and while most of the replies were pointing out that it was originally the government's idea, there were a few in there - presumably local party members joining in with the charade - posting replies of the "Well done, thanks for continuing to fight for us locals" variety.

Along with getting rid of the need to have seven wheelie bins, banning the sale of meat, and reversing Labour's policy to block out the sun, these Tory MPs are really getting things done and securing my vote next year!

 

[trainJam]

I often buy tickets from local outlets (a corner shop miles from a rail station and the Spar next to Sheffield station). The various staff in both have always been most willing to follow my guidance on how to issue the tickets even when they have never heard of them before.

I've never used a non-rail ticket shop - may I ask, where can one usually find such a place?

What ticket stock is used by these outlets?

 

[sheff1]

Are we talking about trying to purchase Greater Manchester 'Wayfarer' tickets at Sheffield? (Whilst not valid for use at Sheffield, they are valid at Grindleford, a couple of stations along the line from Sheffield).

Yes

Northern's ticket machines sell them. But Sheffield's row of TVMs are ERM and they currently don't. However their ticket office is now supposed to sell them.

Would be interested to hear whether someone has actually managed to buy one from the ticket office

I've never used a non-rail ticket shop - may I ask, where can one usually find such a place?

What ticket stock is used by these outlets?

Any PayPoint outlet should be able to issue the tickets. They are printed on normal 'shop till paper'.

 

[Horizon22]

The whole consultation was setup behind smokescreens to allow government MPs to pass blame to TOCs - I think that's fair to say.

But in the grand scale of opposing the government, one ticket office in the constituency (especially when your other is remaining open) isn't necessarily worth kicking a PR war off over.

The government(s) have been using TOCs as a smokescreen for years!

 

[Killingworth]

Any PayPoint outlet should be able to issue the tickets. They are printed on normal 'shop till paper'.

According to the PayPoint website they have over 28,000 locations. Their store finder gives my nearest store as the local single manned Esso filling station over half a hilly mile away. I wouldn't be too confident about buying there if Northern sign them up.

 

[Philip]

If the ticket office is quiet one of the staff should be out on the barrier where they can assist customers face to face and help with revenue by closing the barriers.

They already have gateline/revenue protection staff for that, and at some stations there are dispatchers who assist passengers when they're not occupied with dispatching a train. At busy stations it's rare for a ticket office to go more than 5 minutes without someone coming to buy a ticket or ask advice, at least between 7am-7pm, and it's a point of help for passengers to go to, so someone needs to be there.

 

[Class 170101]

Its all been a bit of a shambles to be honest and frankly does the government no favours and unfortunately due to the sin is doing the railway no favours either. The only 'blessing' that can be said is that most of the coverage has disappeared under the Middle East crisis.

However I did notice in reading here that there are places that can sell rail tickets that aren't railway stations, in the north of England. in the London area travelcards used to be sold in shops in the past in my experience, whether the do now with the advent of Oyster and Contactless I don't know. However it seems to me we need to turn station ticket offices into something else and not just a ticket office. Take a look at Knaresborough - a station pub, the various Taps at stations and I'm sure others can come up with other ideas but we need to something with these besides sell tickets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Its all been a bit of a shambles to be honest and frankly does the government no favours and unfortunately due to the sin is doing the railway no favours either. The only 'blessing' that can be said is that most of the coverage has disappeared under the Middle East crisis.

However I did notice in reading here that there are places that can sell rail tickets that aren't railway stations, in the north of England. in the London area travelcards used to be sold in shops in the past in my experience, whether the do now with the advent of Oyster and Contactless I don't know. However it seems to me we need to turn station ticket offices into something else and not just a ticket office. Take a look at Knaresborough - a station pub, the various Taps at stations and I'm sure others can come up with other ideas but we need to something with these besides sell tickets.

I would point to the lack of success in Mtogo, which is an expensive to run, bad convenience store attached to a longer queued, bad ticket office. The combination doesn't work, and a few TVMs, etickets, contactless and a franchised Sainsburys Local or similar would provide a better service to everyone on Merseyrail than those.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Its all been a bit of a shambles to be honest and frankly does the government no favours and unfortunately due to the sin is doing the railway no favours either. The only 'blessing' that can be said is that most of the coverage has disappeared under the Middle East crisis.

However I did notice in reading here that there are places that can sell rail tickets that aren't railway stations, in the north of England. in the London area travelcards used to be sold in shops in the past in my experience, whether the do now with the advent of Oyster and Contactless I don't know. However it seems to me we need to turn station ticket offices into something else and not just a ticket office. Take a look at Knaresborough - a station pub, the various Taps at stations and I'm sure others can come up with other ideas but we need to something with these besides sell tickets.

I wonder if you could work with cash-strapped local authorities to locate a local service in there, or maybe a Post Office.

 

[Class 170101]

I would point to the lack of success in Mtogo, which is an expensive to run, bad convenience store attached to a longer queued, bad ticket office. The combination doesn't work, and a few TVMs, etickets, contactless and a franchised Sainsburys Local or similar would provide a better service to everyone on Merseyrail than those.

Fair enough but a presence of some description would be useful. Indeed an M&S Food or Sainsbvury's Local (or similar) might be good for buying a sandwich for lunch in the morning en -route to work nvermind the morning tea / coffee and in the evening, a meal on the way home. I'm sure there are other ideas too.

 

[317 forever]

Good news - for a change.

Although reality quickly dealt with any pleasure at this climb down as my attempt to buy a ticket this morning at Earlsfield was met with.......a closed ticket office and open barriers. As seems to be usual now.

Maybe some London stations just have open gates but ticket office closed as many people are making local journeys paying by Oyster or contactless card.

 

[Djgr]

Fair enough but a presence of some description would be useful. Indeed an M&S Food or Sainsbvury's Local (or similar) might be good for buying a sandwich for lunch in the morning en -route to work nvermind the morning tea / coffee and in the evening, a meal on the way home. I'm sure there are other ideas too.

Something like Mtogo could work but not when it is less than a hundred metres from a Sainsbury's Local!

 

[Krokodil]

At more rural locations combining a ticket office with the functions of a tourist information and gift shop might work. In cities (where MtoGo is a thing) the stations are busy enough and close to local amenities that it would be a distraction.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Something like Mtogo could work but not when it is less than a hundred metres from a Sainsbury's Local!

That Sainsbury's needs to get a Costa machine! I assume they aren't allowed because of the actual Costa opposite, though that opens far shorter hours.

I don't think the concept works at all well. Logically it should, but Merseyrail don't have the skills at operating convenience stores and the staff are far more expensive, so longer queues result.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Nov 2023 ==

At more rural locations combining a ticket office with the functions of a tourist information and gift shop might work. In cities (where MtoGo is a thing) the stations are busy enough and close to local amenities that it would be a distraction.

They tried it at Maghull and it didn't work there either, and there's very little near that (though I think there is a newsagent). I don't recall the specific reason why it didn't though.

Edit: There is now it appears a One Stop, which is like a "Tesco Express minus" and is owned by Tesco though possibly operated as franchises. That probably killed it off.

 

[Krokodil]

They tried it at Maghull and it didn't work there either, and there's very little near that (though I think there is a newsagent). I don't recall the specific reason why it didn't though.

That wasn't exactly what I had in mind. I was more thinking of locations like Settle where there's already a tourist information on site. Councils in many areas are cutting back on these so combining the two functions could make a more efficient use of staff.

Also somewhere like Llandudno which could really do with longer staffed hours (with some overlap in the middle of the day when it's busiest). The local council could save on renting a retail unit in the Victoria Centre and direct funding towards the station instead. That way it would only have to contribute towards a share of the wages and isn't liable for rent or anything.

 

[jon81uk]

They already have gateline/revenue protection staff for that, and at some stations there are dispatchers who assist passengers when they're not occupied with dispatching a train. At busy stations it's rare for a ticket office to go more than 5 minutes without someone coming to buy a ticket or ask advice, at least between 7am-7pm, and it's a point of help for passengers to go to, so someone needs to be there.

But why can’t the spare ticket office staff who were chatting with their colleague go to the barrier? Why have staff only tied to one role? At 6pm I doubt the ticket office will get busy enough to need both staff so one could easily have moved to the gate line to be a visible presence.

 

[Krokodil]

The gateline may well need double staffing for safety.

 

[bramling]

That Sainsbury's needs to get a Costa machine! I assume they aren't allowed because of the actual Costa opposite, though that opens far shorter hours.

I don't think the concept works at all well. Logically it should, but Merseyrail don't have the skills at operating convenience stores and the staff are far more expensive, so longer queues result.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Nov 2023 ==



They tried it at Maghull and it didn't work there either, and there's very little near that (though I think there is a newsagent). I don't recall the specific reason why it didn't though.

Edit: There is now it appears a One Stop, which is like a "Tesco Express minus" and is owned by Tesco though possibly operated as franchises. That probably killed it off.

It’s interesting that M to Go is being seen as a failure, as ISTR at one point it was regarded as a great success.

I tend to agree that the problem with it is it does nothing well. The range of products sold was worse than your average corner shop, and more expensive too, and of course you end up with longer queues for people who actually want tickets - just like happens at petrol stations which have a mini supermarket attached (thank goodness for pay at pump).

Nothing wrong with having multi-functional booking office staff though. LU had this at their quieter stations, where you could have someone manning the window, but at the same time monitoring CCTV and running the station. This generally worked well until they started tinkering with it as part of the drive to get rid of booking clerks.

 

[Gaelan]

I've never used a non-rail ticket shop - may I ask, where can one usually find such a place?

What ticket stock is used by these outlets?

The Stagecoach bus station in St Andrews has a "travel shop" which appears to be a fully functional rail ticket office - I've only used it once, to pick up ToD tickets, and got them on standard orange CCST stock.

Presumably a slightly unusual situation due to said bus station's status as a replacement for a pre-Beeching rail station.

 

[RPI]

The Stagecoach bus station in St Andrews has a "travel shop" which appears to be a fully functional rail ticket office - I've only used it once, to pick up ToD tickets, and got them on standard orange CCST stock.

Presumably a slightly unusual situation due to said bus station's status as a replacement for a pre-Beeching rail station.

Whilst slightly different, Newquay used to have a First bus travel shop at Newquay railway station which sold rail tickets, from a Sportis machine. St Ives has similar where an independent travel agent sells rail tickets (i think the one at St Ives is till there, not been there for a while)

 

[jon81uk]

The gateline may well need double staffing for safety.

Never is normally. Two staff stuck behind glass at the ticket office chatting but one person dealing with the gateline if it is staffed at all. I get that the ticket iffice is busy in the mornings. But the rest of the day I’d rather see more visible staff around the station.

 

[Killingworth]

Never is normally. Two staff stuck behind glass at the ticket office chatting but one person dealing with the gateline if it is staffed at all. I get that the ticket iffice is busy in the mornings. But the rest of the day I’d rather see more visible staff around the station.

Which is how the recent provocative exercise should have been positioned. Better deployment of staff to serve travellers.

 

[Richardr]

Fair enough but a presence of some description would be useful. Indeed an M&S Food or Sainsbvury's Local (or similar) might be good for buying a sandwich for lunch in the morning en -route to work nvermind the morning tea / coffee and in the evening, a meal on the way home. I'm sure there are other ideas too.

Aren't most M&S Food and Sainsburys Local mainly self service tills? Is that the answer?

 

[D6130]

Presumably a slightly unusual situation due to said bus station's status as a replacement for a pre-Beeching rail station.

OT, but I must gently correct that sentence. Having closed in January 1969, St Andrews was very definitely a post-Beeching station!