Ticket office closures

[mason200]

There has been a recent tweet on Twitter which if correct means that the ticket offices days are are nearly over.

Plans to close most UK railway ticket offices to kick off ‘in weeks’

Ministers want rail firms to push ahead with plans that RMT union has pledged to oppose

www.theguardian.com

A process to shut nearly all of Britain’s railway station ticket offices could begin as early as next week, the RMT union has warned.

Almost 1,000 offices are believed to be targeted for closure under government proposals to cut costs and “modernise” the railway, although ministers have for months shied away from spelling out the extent of the plans, in the face of concern from their own MPs as well as unions and passenger groups.

 

[dk1]

Yes I have seen this and it will be a very sad day. Unfortunately I see first hand how times have changed on a daily basis and this has greatly accelerated in the last 5 years. Industrial relations look set to worsen further.

 

[Mainsideman]

If the government keeps to their promise about keeping the staff on the platforms and concourse to assist then this is really no big issue. Will they do that however is another question entirely!

 

[gordonthemoron]

Aren’t most ticket office staff in TSSA?

 

[bramling]

If the government keeps to their promise about keeping the staff on the platforms and concourse to assist then this is really no big issue. Will they do that however is another question entirely!

I wouldn't say it's no big issue. It's just *another* example of something which has worked well being debased into a mess. Just like what we see on TFL, where booking halls are often chaotic as people make a hash of using machines.

What this means in practice is it will be more difficult to use a machine, as there will now be a load of people faffing around struggling to use them.

I'm the first one to accept that booking offices aren't perfect, but the industry has made little attempt to make them work better - instead we've had a dark cloud over them for the last 10+ years.

Our politicians are a disaster, and have been for many years. Can we get rid of them instead?

 

[Robertj21a]

It had to come, it's far too archaic for 2023. With all the numerous alternatives there's little real need for manned offices nowadays. A shame, but far too little benefit.

 

[mason200]

Another link.

Rail operators draw up plans to close most ticket offices in England

Move to redeploy staff, long advocated by train companies, set to exacerbate protracted industrial dispute

www.ft.com

 

[Carlisle]

Our politicians are a disaster, and have been for many years. Can we get rid of them instead?

Maybe, but they’re probably relying mostly on the advice of experts, of whom there appears barely any consensus on what the future best practices of a modern efficient railway actually amount to .

 

[43066]

I wouldn't say it's no big issue. It's just *another* example of something which has worked well being debased into a mess. Just like what we see on TFL, where booking halls are often chaotic as people make a hash of using machines.

What this means in practice is it will be more difficult to use a machine, as there will now be a load of people faffing around struggling to use them.

I'm the first one to accept that booking offices aren't perfect, but the industry has made little attempt to make them work better - instead we've had a dark cloud over them for the last 10+ years.

Our politicians are a disaster, and have been for many years. Can we get rid of them instead?

Agreed. It sounds badly planned and cack handed. No great surprise there.

Maybe, but they’re probably relying mostly on the advice of experts, of whom there appears barely any consensus on what the future best practices of a modern efficient railway actually amount to .

Maybe they’re trying to create a modern efficient railway. Or maybe they’re just continuing with their political crusade against trade unions.

It’s pretty obvious which…

 

[irish_rail]

I wander how much they will lose in lost Priv sales..... I for one am not about to go through the rigmarole of attempting to purchase a Priv ticket online when at present I can buy one in seconds at the ticket office. Ill just "have a word with the guard" . I agree there are candidates for closure, but most ticket offices ARE needed and will be another nail in the coffin of this appalling government. Indeed it hurts there core vote. Older people. But with this lot , they are so deluded and out of touch they probably have overlooked the fact.

 

[43066]

I wander how much they will lose in lost Priv sales..... I for one am not about to go through the rigmarole of attempting to purchase a Priv ticket online when at present I can buy one in seconds at the ticket office. Ill just "have a word with the guard" . I agree there are candidates for closure, but most ticket offices ARE needed and will be another nail in the coffin of this appalling government. Indeed it hurts there core vote. Older people. But with this lot , they are so deluded and out of touch they probably have overlooked the fact.

That’s a good point.

The rail staff travel website is clunky in the extreme and for some routes doesn’t give you an option to download an e-ticket direct to your phone, forcing you to collect a paper ticket from a TVM. Absolutely ridiculous and therefore takes twice as long as buying the old fashioned way! Hence I will still buy from a ticket office where possible despite having the ability to buy online.

 

[Chat Moss]

If the government keeps to their promise about keeping the staff on the platforms and concourse to assist then this is really no big issue. Will they do that however is another question entirely!

Would the idea not be to save money by reducing staffing costs? I don't see staff on the platforms as realistic. What would be achieved by moving them from a ticket office where they sell and advise to the platform where they advise.

 

[JamieL]

Do many people still use ticket offices? I travel thousands of miles per month on rail and never do - its all apps or website. Don't want to see anyone out if a job mind and always preferable to have a staffed station than not.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Ticket offices at a few of the larger stations are all that is needed, anything else, do on line at TVMs or from a guard.

 

[dk1]

Aren’t most ticket office staff in TSSA?

RMT

 

[Richardr]

The articles say:

Guardian:

an announcement of public consultations, the first stage in the formal process, will come in early July, according to rail sources quoted by the Association of British Commuters, a campaign group

FT:

The industry intends to launch a public consultation process on the closures in the coming weeks with ministerial backing, according to four people familiar with the matter. They said only busy hubs or major tourist stations were expected to keep manned kiosks.

so the closure isn't going to start in weeks [the Guardian love putting something like that in quotes in the headline that isn't even in the article let alone a quote], but I am sure we all know the intention at the end of the consultation.

 

[trundlewagon]

Would the idea not be to save money by reducing staffing costs? I don't see staff on the platforms as realistic. What would be achieved by moving them from a ticket office where they sell and advise to the platform where they advise.

Yeah redeploying them in a more generic station role sounds like nonsense to me because
a) it saves no money
b) staff at smaller stations (the ones that haven't already lost their ticket offices) already tend to do a bit of everything - sell tickets, passenger assistance, keep the place tidy, etc

Could see there being scope for "efficiencies" (urgh) at larger stations (where there's a ticket office, platform staff, etc) by combining roles but I doubt there's 1000 stations that have that level of staffing...

 

[simonw]

Do many people still use ticket offices? I travel thousands of miles per month on rail and never do - its all apps or website. Don't want to see anyone out if a job mind and always preferable to have a staffed station than not.

According to the Guardian article 1 in 8 tickets are bought at a ticket office. One can see why redeployment to helping people might be better use of the resource.

 

[ollyexe2808]

Do many people still use ticket offices? I travel thousands of miles per month on rail and never do - its all apps or website. Don't want to see anyone out if a job mind and always preferable to have a staffed station than not.

I don't use them but there are plenty of people who do - and for whom the recognisable location of a ticket office helps keep them using the rail network. Staff on platforms is welcome - but just like staff in banks helping people use ATMs, it is quite an inefficient process.

Absolutely it is more an older generation thing but I also think it is about accessibility and the ability to have a "one stop shop" for travel queries, questions and ticketing with a real person.

I suppose the question I would ask (which others have alluded to) is why this is necessary in such a dramatic and drastic form. It feels political, not pragmatic. And if it really is as rapid a closure as many suggest, there won't be the time for adaptation. Any gaps left need to be filled by something to aid accessibility - something like Local Authority/Rail/Bus Company Partnership travel centres in towns or at least having ad campaigns that target audiences who may be affected by this.

Sadly, I don't think this Gov cares. It's now just an extra cost on their books and they just want to make political statements and cut costs at the same time.

 

[Silverlinky]

Be interesting to see how this one pans out. I get that the RMT are "vigorously opposed" to any ticket office closures and want to protect jobs, but isn't this situation akin to banks closing because more people do on line banking and use cash machines, travel agents closing because most people use the internet to book travel, post offices closing because other services are available, libraries closing because you can wiki everything rather than getting a book out, and so on and so forth. The difference here is that there is a strong union standing in the way of "progress", and I mean because of technological progress rather than anything else.

 

[dk1]

Be interesting to see how this one pans out. I get that the RMT are "vigorously opposed" to any ticket office closures and want to protect jobs, but isn't this situation akin to banks closing because more people do on line banking and use cash machines, travel agents closing because most people use the internet to book travel, post offices closing because other services are available, libraries closing because you can wiki everything rather than getting a book out, and so on and so forth. The difference here is that there is a strong union standing in the way of "progress", and I mean because of technological progress rather than anything else.

I know it’s progress & things change but all the things you mention and I see too just make me feel a little more dead inside.

 

[43066]

Be interesting to see how this one pans out. I get that the RMT are "vigorously opposed" to any ticket office closures and want to protect jobs, but isn't this situation akin to banks closing because more people do on line banking and use cash machines, travel agents closing because most people use the internet to book travel, post offices closing because other services are available, libraries closing because you can wiki everything rather than getting a book out, and so on and so forth. The difference here is that there is a strong union standing in the way of "progress", and I mean because of technological progress rather than anything else.

I expect most of us can see the need for reform in this area.

It’s striking that the RMT have been a good deal more pragmatic about ticket office closures in the past (eg on LU) than the current rhetoric would suggest. I suspect the government’s unnecessarily combative approach hasn’t helped matters here.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Everyone keeps referencing the "older generation" how long is the "older generation" and older generation. People born in 1980 well in to computer times are now mid 40s. Its a lame excuse and I know from family member's in their 60,70 and 80s they can all do basic things on phone apps. Ticket apps are simple enough.

 

[Lemmy99uk]

Unfortunately, the RMTs decision to refuse to negotiate ticket office closures have effectively effectively given the companies carte blanche to do what they like.

There will probably be some job losses, and some stations may become completely unmanned, but it’s going to happen.

The staff would be far better served, and the potential redundancies reduced, if the union would engage in the process to ensure maximum number of posts are retained, and the remaining/replacement jobs work for the benefit of both employees and passengers. In fact, I am personally aware of booking office staff who are desperate to find something else to do because they no longer have sufficient custom to make their job worthwhile.

 

[Bald Rick]

In fact, I am personally aware of booking office staff who are desperate to find something else to do because they no longer have sufficient custom to make their job worthwhile.

Yes me too, and they have been in that position for some time.

The unions position on this has been… interesting. It might get a mention in my book (if I ever write it).

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Chester station is run by Transport for Wales, not a DfT TOC, but I understand the ticket office there is to close as part of a refresh of the concourse area.
Staff will be redeployed to assist passengers, use ticket machines etc.
Merseyrail is the only TOC which maintains ticket offices at most (not quite all) of its stations, has next to no ticket machines and no truck with e-tickets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Chester station is run by Transport for Wales, not a DfT TOC, but I understand the ticket office there is to close as part of a refresh of the concourse area.
Staff will be redeployed to assist passengers, use ticket machines etc.
Merseyrail is the only TOC which maintains ticket offices at most (not quite all) of its stations, has next to no ticket machines and no truck with e-tickets.

Merseyrail is now not a DfT TOC either of course, now existing in a framework a bit closer in nature to Metrolink or the Tyne and Wear Metro. Would be bizarre if the TOC that really should close some of its more pointless booking offices and enable e-tickets and contactless was the last one left to have them!

 

[bramling]

Would the idea not be to save money by reducing staffing costs? I don't see staff on the platforms as realistic. What would be achieved by moving them from a ticket office where they sell and advise to the platform where they advise.

Platform staff are cheaper, as there’s less training involved. Booking office is a relatively skilled role, so attracts a higher salary.

A sweeter spot would be what LU used to have at quieter stations, namely a multi-functional supervisor of the station who would spend their time watching CCTV and manning the window, whilst doing other tasks as required.

 

[sor]

oh, are they at the final stages of implementing a tap in/out utopia and simplified ticketing, and less punitive laws for those who are failed by the technology? news to me. it didn't seem very modernised when I travelled last weekend, some people still used orange tickets and my e-ticket refused to open the gates on the return leg (as it also did the weekend prior). When I do a trip involving cross-London travel soon, I will of course be doing that on an orange ticket too, so I hope the famously high-reliability ticket machines are in fine form...

I'm sure the government will save millions from redeploying all those small-station ticket sellers who... er... already dispatch trains, walk around the platform providing customer service and keep the place looking tidy.

 

[43066]

Platform staff are cheaper, as there’s less training involved. Booking office is a relatively skilled role, so attracts a higher salary.

My worry is that we will go from knowledgable booking office staff to yet more On-Trak types who stare into their mobiles and can’t do anymore than grunt at you. Sadly the TfL gateline staff seem to have moved in this direction over the past few years, so I hope this theme isn’t continued on the mainline.