Ticket offices and Rovers.

[robbeech]

So once again I am forced to travel to another station to buy a ticket. a Freedom of the North West 4 in 8.

The lovely lady at Worksop says it isn't on her system and the only one she can find appears to be a completely different price. It's more expensive than the 7 day one but I am not allowed to look on the screen to check validity so it is very likely to be something completely different and useless.

It amazes me how this is a acceptable.

I work in the entertainment industry in a responsible job role, if I couldn't do the job I am supposed to do I would be out of a job immediately. If I messed up a job to the point that it impeded people's progress or cost them time or money i wouldn't be stood up in court before the end of the month. Yet time and time again I come across people that for all intents and purpose simply cannot do the job they are being paid to do.

The worst part is it makes the majority of staff who are very good look bad as a whole which is unfair.

The ticket exists I have purchased them before, from this station. In the end I got an outright "I haven't a clue what ticket you mean and there's a queue so I can't help you"

I'm not needing it until tomorrow so I will call somewhere else to buy it. No doubt if I had finally found a ticket there would have been an issue paying with RTVs

I know this will sound harsh and some users will be disgruntled by it but it to my mind is a simple request.


Rob

 

[Romilly]

I think it's now called a North West Rover - either 7 days, or 4 in 8.

On BR Fares, the codes appear like this for the 4 days in 8:

I120 FONW 4IN8DAY RVR

So it may be that a ticket office clerk, depending on their system, needs to search for "I120" or "FONW".

 

[dave87016]

I concur some staff simply can't be bothered to look for tickets if they are not to/from that station as harsh as it is it also happens to be true I have the utmost respect for railway staff and I have plenty of friends who work on the railway in various roles including ticket office

At times guards don't seem know how to issue day rangers or it's validity

 

[robbeech]

The lady couldn't Find anything for northwest. Or northeast.

Sadly it is the case that if she is working I know that I will have problems if I don't want a day return to Sheffield or similar. Even a London ticket is complicated with her. Trying to tell her I want the any permitted from Whitwell is asking for a 10 minute stress event.

Rob
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
As expected, the VTEC lady at Retford sold me one without hassle straight away. For the price it should be.

 

[Techniquest]

I had similar problems trying to get my North Downs Day Ranger earlier this year, apparently there was no rover or ranger valid from Blackwater that morning, according to the guard and his machine (no ticket machine available on the station)!

Worse was tickets I bought last week from the ticket office in Hereford. If I hadn't needed to pay with cash, I'd have booked online and saved the stress. She printed my Hereford to Birmingham ticket for the correct day (we had bought them two days in advance, as we were leaving very early), and my Leicester to Stamford ticket for the correct day. For some reason, the Birmingham to Leicester ticket was issued for 2nd November instead of 26th October! This was only discovered going through the barrier at Birmingham New Street, thankfully we had plenty of time to go to the ticket office to get it corrected, and fair game to the VTWC lady, she got it fixed without issue, but cheers ATW for the faff which left my bacon roll get cold before I had chance to eat it.

Not only that, but she printed my Mum's Birmingham to Leicester and Leicester to Stamford tickets for the correct date, but not the Hereford to Birmingham part. Which was discovered after arrival in Birmingham, so strictly speaking she was on an invalid ticket at that point. I hadn't noticed when I quickly checked we had the right number of tickets at the time of purchase, I was more miffed with the attitude of the woman. Hereford is one of those offices that know how to do day returns to local stations but not an awful lot else. Asking for split tickets is almost enough to give them a heart attack, yet one of the guys in there is brilliant and happily takes on unusual requests.

My recent experience only reinforced my view that we should rip out the ticket office and install multiple TVMs instead, more efficient and you don't get nasty attitudes from a TVM!

 

[Sprinter153]

I had similar problems trying to get my North Downs Day Ranger earlier this year, apparently there was no rover or ranger valid from Blackwater that morning, according to the guard and his machine (no ticket machine available on the station)!

When I used to instruct guards over that route I had to tell most of them about the Day Ranger. There's no commercial element to the route knowledge standard so the lack of awareness is quite common, unless they've been out with a good instructor or do a lot of their own homework.

There are TVMs at BAW but they're in the open which the touch screens don't like so are frequently out of commission. One can't purchase a rover from a TVM anyway.

Most staff, contrary to popular belief on these august pages, aren't malicious or lazy but work within the limits of their training, which is often quite poor or not in-depth enough.

 

[Techniquest]

I'm not suggesting the staff in my previous post are lazy, a lack of proper training is indeed obvious. A shame as the same staff are relied on by all but the most dedicated enthusiasts to sell them the correct tickets.

It is high time rovers and rangers were made available on TVMs, come on it's nearly 2017...

 

[crehld]

One can't purchase a rover from a TVM anyway.

And yet, Virgin TVMs will happily sell me a West Midlands day ranger. I can't see why other rail companies lack the imagination or will to set up their TVMs to do this.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It is high time rovers and rangers were made available on TVMs, come on it's nearly 2017...

Indeed!

 

[LowLevel]

Rovers and rangers are input in the most horrendous fashion in ticket issuing systems. Unless you know the abbreviation they've chosen (which can bear no resemblance to the ticket name itself) it can be next to impossible to find it. I like to think I'm quite competent with my Avantix but even I get stumped on occasion.

As an example some rovers require being input as a from/to ticket. Some you can look up. We have a local discount that requires to be input as adult nil, child nil, accompanied articles one or it doesn't work.

I dearly hope Envoy, our new system, will fix some of these issues but I'm not holding up hope. If you use BR fares to look up some of these things you'll see a basic idea of what the front line staff are up against but with the added difficulty of some vagaries of certain ticket issuing systems.

It's not an excuse but the problem goes far beyond poor front line training.

 

[robbeech]

I agree it is almost always a training thing. They're not lazy as a rule. Although try and get the one and only waiting room at Worksop open before 10am some days and you'll maybe disagree. But generally speaking it is poor or out of date training. I guess the ones that get it right are the ones that care about the job, the ones with the passion so to speak. They likely learn more stuff in their own time in order to go above and beyond the call of duty to help. Sadly what appears to be above and beyond is often what we would consider 'their job'. Of corse there are the ones that really do go all out to help in any way they can.

 

[RJ]

The lovely lady at Worksop says it isn't on her system and the only one she can find appears to be a completely different price. It's more expensive than the 7 day one but I am not allowed to look on the screen to check validity so it is very likely to be something completely different and useless.

It amazes me how this is a acceptable.

I work in the entertainment industry in a responsible job role, if I couldn't do the job I am supposed to do I would be out of a job immediately. If I messed up a job to the point that it impeded people's progress or cost them time or money i wouldn't be stood up in court before the end of the month. Yet time and time again I come across people that for all intents and purpose simply cannot do the job they are being paid to do.

Welcome to the railways. Quality of service at ticket offices is very hit and miss, but there is no compulsion for anything to be done about it.

Truthfully, certain tickets like rovers can be tricky to find - but that's what we ticket sellers are paid to do. The software I use has no special rover menu so it's either try to find whatever name it's listed under, or find the NLC code. As per Romily's post, sometimes it's not easy to find - i.e someone might ask for a First Class All Line Rover - but in my system it's there as "Freedom of Britain" route "Direct", with the class not shown.

That clerk could have done more to help - i.e try telephoning for help from another station or even letting the OP assist with finding the ticket - some customers love doing that. Poor customer service there.

As an example some rovers require being input as a from/to ticket. Some you can look up. We have a local discount that requires to be input as adult nil, child nil, accompanied articles one or it doesn't work.

Then there are Carnet tickets. I was completely stumped the first time I was asked for one. Turns out to get it to show up, the number of passengers travelling has to be changed to 10!

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Having an unmanned station nearest me, I am often limited to what tickets I can buy.

Can't get any Metro day tickets for example as these are only sold at manned stations, not on a train or from machines.

Complicated by the fact that there are outsourced ticket sellers often at the station. Fortunately to date when they didn't know a ticket ID they have just let me on the train to buy it there, but it is a pain and runs the risk of getting caught for travel without a ticket if there are inspectors on the train.

 

[robbeech]

I wonder what the situation would be on a NorthEAST rover if they couldn't sell me one there. Obviously the northwest is not valid at Worksop but I have a ticket to get me to where it is valid. But a North East Rover is valid at Worksop, if they wouldn't sell me that there and I got on the train and went to Retford would that be considered ok as Retford world technically be my first opportunity to buy the ticket I require or is it first opportunity to buy A ticket? I appreciate I can buy some on the train but not if I wish to pay with rtv.

 

[D6975]

Sounds like I'm lucky to live in Bristol. Staff at TM and Parkway have always found what I've asked for, double checked, asking me how much I was expecting to be paying and issuing the rover without fuss or significant delay. And I'm not just talking local rovers, I've bought Anglia 3 in 7s, FONW (7 day and 4 in 8), FONE (ditto), HOE, East Mids and even a West Yorks daytripper or whatever it's called nowadays.

It is however a long overdue update that's required for online booking systems. I buy my advances online and pick them up from the machines from TM well in advance of my travel date. It's high time that I should be able to pick up my rover at the same time.

 

[Techniquest]

I agree that, even back in 2010, Bristol Temple Meads were always good at something other than a basic day return to Bath Spa etc. You could go to the ticket window, nervous as anything with only a matter of minutes until your train was due, that you would get a clerk who had never heard of a Heart of Wessex Day Ranger for example. I never had anything they couldn't sort out, and the now long gone Travel Centre in Swansea used to be fantastic at fulfilling any and all requests. There could be a queue of 8 behind you, but issuing a new railcard was never an issue, nor was selling an Apex (anyone else remember them?) and ensuring you knew the ins and outs of them and the journeys you had booked, any rail replacement buses and so on. Queue or no queue, first time traveller or super regular traveller (as I used to be), it was a pleasure to use the place.

Then you get Hereford and their crew. I will never forget one of them (I believe now retired) who suggested I was making up the Greater Manchester Rail Ranger. Eventually it was found, possibly the only time Hereford has ever sold one of those! I will always try and buy online to pick up at the TVM these days, especially as I get Nectar points through Virgin West Coast and GWR. Shame about the guys and girls in the ticket office, as the guy who mans the barrier regularly when I'm there is always friendly and asks where I'm off to this time. He actually takes an interest in his passengers, he has a passion for his job. I must take note of his name to credit him to ATW next time actually.

Stansted Airport, on the other hand, were very dubious about issuing me a Central Scotland Rover in January. However I went through everything I knew of it with him, and after seeking advice on how to find rovers on his system, it was issued and he was genuinely glad to have sold it as he had never sold a rover before for outside his patch. He learnt something new that day, and felt pleased to have something other than just a single to London, Cambridge or similar. It did raise an eyebrow or 5 in Scotland mind, when they saw where it was issued!

Isn't it high time ticket office systems were improved to make it easy to issue a rover? GWR and Northern (amongst others) have leaflets promoting their rangers and rovers, which is good news but it's not much good if their staff cannot find the tickets!

For reference, when I was on my North Downs Day Ranger bash the guy in the ticket office at Guildford had no issue whatsoever finding and issuing it. He was really friendly and professional, which shocked me as I was strictly speaking on SWT territory, I was on foreign territory and I don't normally have good customer service down here.

Finally, credit goes to Birmingham New Street's ticket office. Never yet had an issue there with slightly unusual requests and they're always friendly. Quite, same applies to Carlisle's ticket office!

 

[Kite159]

I've never had an issue with some strange rover requests at Andover ticket office (seeing as my local station is unstaffed and only has a TVM)

 

[SickyNicky]

Hereford is one of those offices that know how to do day returns to local stations but not an awful lot else. Asking for split tickets is almost enough to give them a heart attack, yet one of the guys in there is brilliant and happily takes on unusual requests.

Oh yes. I know who you mean. He was willing to spend many minutes with me try to issue an ticket to Calais, even though the other person in the ticket office was scathing about it, and absolutely insistent it couldn't be done.

He succeeded, of course. Much to the annoyance of his colleague.

This is the same office that accused me of "fraud" (their words, not mine) for wanting a change of route excess in one direction. It took several attempts and finally an intervention from their Fares Manager to get it right /staff retrained.

Sigh.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

I wonder if one issue is simply that in many places, the staff are working alone or just with a colleague, there is not a manager on site.

With many things in retail, you can know 99% of your job, but only very occasionally do you need to know the 1%. If you have a fully trained manager, they can deal with the issue and you learn from them. If there is no-one else there, no-one can show you so you never learn.

 

[ashworth]

So once again I am forced to travel to another station to buy a ticket. a Freedom of the North West 4 in 8.

The lovely lady at Worksop says it isn't on her system and the only one she can find appears to be a completely different price. It's more expensive than the 7 day one but I am not allowed to look on the screen to check validity so it is very likely to be something completely different and useless.

It amazes me how this is a acceptable.

I've purchased the 7 Day version of this ticket a number of times from the very helpful man at Alfreton! He's worked there for a number of years and has always been able to find what I ask for. The only problem I've had is that I use it when I stay with friends for a week in Blackpool and it never seems to work the barrier at Blackpool North. The notoriously rude staff at Blackpool North, for a whole week refuse to listen to me, and insist I queue up and try to put it through the barrier.

I'm off to Chester next week for a few days and was originally intending to get an Off Peak Return from Mansfield to Sheffield and then travel the rest of the way and back with a 4 Days in 8 Coast and Peaks Rover leaving me with 2 days travel to enjoy whilst there including a day on the North Wales Coast. Guess what! I was intending to buy the rover whilst enduring the long wait for a connection at Worksop! I'm glad I've changed my plans.

I'm now going via Nottingham, Derby and Crewe as Off Peak Returns from Mansfield to Chester via that route splitting at Tutbury and Hatton work out quite cheap. Mansfield to Chester that way plus a couple of days out using Day Returns whilst there works out much cheaper than my original plan.

 

[185]

Beyond me what is stopping train companies from amending the software on TVMs to issue Rovers / Rangers / Plusbus / PTE stuff.

A reasonable selection of Day Rangers, Seasons, Multimodal tickets are certainly available on one operator's Scheidt & Bachmann machines, so what is stopping other companies? Being given the answer from a Retail Manager "it's simply too difficult" doesn't wash with me... Rovers and Rangers are a set (or macro) product which are almost always the same price on each machine across a TOC - very easy to set up.

My (email) to & fro conversation included why a number of straightforward ordinary fares were also missing from the machine to which the explanation was given "it takes a long time at very limited notice to put this data in" - if the fares are loaded directly, there should be no space for errors or omissions.

 

[185143]

Chester struggled to do me a 2 zone North Wales rover last year, they initially said it couldn't be done, as it wasnt shown, but I was persistant.

They asked if I was in a rush (as they were going to give me authorisation to get on the train).
As I wasn't they asked if I'd mind waiting a minute while they spoke to a manager in a back room. Eventually the manager came out and sold the ticket no problem

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

[roversfan2001]

The only problem I've had was Leyland refused to sell me a GM Wayfarer and told me to buy it at Chorley. I think they have now been re-trained or have learnt from mistakes as they sold me a GM Rail Ranger on Friday and a West Midlands Day Ranger last weekend.

 

[Techniquest]

Oh yes. I know who you mean. He was willing to spend many minutes with me try to issue an ticket to Calais, even though the other person in the ticket office was scathing about it, and absolutely insistent it couldn't be done.

He succeeded, of course. Much to the annoyance of his colleague.

This is the same office that accused me of "fraud" (their words, not mine) for wanting a change of route excess in one direction. It took several attempts and finally an intervention from their Fares Manager to get it right /staff retrained.

Sigh.

Did you get that ticket to Calais for validity from Hereford? I'd like to know the details of it if you did.

I am glad it's not just me who has had issues in Hereford. I need to get a Flyaway Two soon, you won't be surprised to learn I'll make all efforts to buy it online!

 

[SickyNicky]

Did you get that ticket to Calais for validity from Hereford? I'd like to know the details of it if you did.

There's no tickets from anywhere north or west of London, as far as I can tell. The best value I could find was to split at somewhere in the South East of London - like New Cross - which saves about a fiver compared to splitting at London proper.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I think it's now called a North West Rover - either 7 days, or 4 in 8.

On BR Fares, the codes appear like this for the 4 days in 8:



So it may be that a ticket office clerk, depending on their system, needs to search for "I120" or "FONW".

Those two will bring up the rover title on the 'anywhere to anywhere' page of STAR, but you can't issue the Rover from there. If you go into the Rover section of STAR, they only bring up "No Data". You would need to enter either "N37" or "North West" for it to show up.

The lady couldn't Find anything for northwest. Or northeast....

That might be because it's "North West", with the ever so important space between words.

....As expected, the VTEC lady at Retford sold me one without hassle straight away. For the price it should be.

Probably put the space in.....

The only problem I've had was Leyland refused to sell me a GM Wayfarer and told me to buy it at Chorley. I think they have now been re-trained or have learnt from mistakes as they sold me a GM Rail Ranger on Friday and a West Midlands Day Ranger last weekend.

GM Wayfarers were only available in the Validity area for a very long time because they used to be scratchcard stock, obviously that isn't the case anymore, but sometimes old habits take over.

 

[Polarbear]

I recall an experience several years ago, where I turned up at Lime Street station (main line) to request a Coast & Peaks Rover. A natural request you may think.

No, I couldn't be sold that product at the time I requested (around 10:30 am) because the only staff member who knew how to issue it was on their lunch break!

Having seen my plans for the day ripped to shreds in one fell swoop, (the move at the time was the 10:45 Liverpool - Euston to Tamworth for a Euston - Manchester back that also stopped at Tamworth), I was not particularly happy and started to berate the management of the ticket office for the woeful lack of staff training in a fairly loud voice. I didn't swear, or take it out on the ticket clerk who originally told me, as it wasn't their fault, but I made my point loud and clear - to the extent that the station manager quickly appeared & asked me to step into his office to "calm down"!

I eventually got my ticket, but my point about lousy customer service did not go unnoticed.

 

[Deerfold]

Having an unmanned station nearest me, I am often limited to what tickets I can buy.

Can't get any Metro day tickets for example as these are only sold at manned stations, not on a train or from machines.

Complicated by the fact that there are outsourced ticket sellers often at the station. Fortunately to date when they didn't know a ticket ID they have just let me on the train to buy it there, but it is a pain and runs the risk of getting caught for travel without a ticket if there are inspectors on the train.

I had this problem on Saturday. I wanted a Nottingham plusbus to add to an existing ticket.
Ticket sellers on the platform "couldn't help" - I'm not sure they even knew what I was on about. The conductor on the train tried to be helpful but couldn't find it on his new ticket machine. Bought at third attempt at Nottingham (but missed a couple of trams whilst queuing).

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I had this problem on Saturday. I wanted a Nottingham plusbus to add to an existing ticket.
Ticket sellers on the platform "couldn't help" - I'm not sure they even knew what I was on about. The conductor on the train tried to be helpful but couldn't find it on his new ticket machine. Bought at third attempt at Nottingham (but missed a couple of trams whilst queuing).

The new machines have problems with some ticket types, I know that STAR Mobile and DORIS can't issue PlusBus on the paper stock at the minute.

 

[sheff1]

The only problem I've had was Leyland refused to sell me a GM Wayfarer and told me to buy it at Chorley.

Unsurprisingly, Sheffield booking office claim they are unable to sell a GM Wayfarer even though its validity commences less than 10 miles away. However, a couple of weeks ago I purchased one at Plymouth - the woman there was very surprised to be asked for such a thing and had never heard of it, but still managed to issue it without difficulty.

 

[roversfan2001]

Unsurprisingly, Sheffield booking office claim they are unable to sell a GM Wayfarer even though its validity commences less than 10 miles away. However, a couple of weeks ago I purchased one at Plymouth - the woman there was very surprised to be asked for such a thing and had never heard of it, but still managed to issue it without difficulty.

I do suspect places just over the boundary won't sell it as the purchaser could chance it and not buy a ticket to plug the gap. It shouldn't be done, but I suspect it happens at a lot of other ticket offices.