Ticket reservations on seats slow to download.

[shredder1]

I was on a Transpennine unit traveling from Edinburgh to Manchester on sunday and the guard announced that many of the seats were reserved and that the seat markets were slowly downloading, but this was after everyone was sat down, she then said that people would have to move from the reserved seats once they were downloaded, if that makes sense. How would you stand in this situation only once the seat indicators had downloaded a few people were sat in reserved seats, but indicated that they wouldnt move.

 

[robbeech]

The guard would be in charge of sorting out the mess, i suspect they would just hide, and who can blame them. A young couple (one of which was pregnant) were turfed out of their seats by an irate elderly man the other day out of King's Cross when the train was short formed and no reservations in place. Not only was he in the wrong to get them to move, but it turned out he was on the wrong train anyway. Sadly the guard let him off, and several others in that carriage alone. Grossly inconsistent and its the reason why people haven't got a clue on what they can and can't do.

You'd be best to move to an available seat as reservations are in place (all be it after a farce).

 

[shredder1]

The guard would be in charge of sorting out the mess, i suspect they would just hide, and who can blame them. A young couple (one of which was pregnant) were turfed out of their seats by an irate elderly man the other day out of King's Cross when the train was short formed and no reservations in place. Not only was he in the wrong to get them to move, but it turned out he was on the wrong train anyway. Sadly the guard let him off, and several others in that carriage alone. Grossly inconsistent and its the reason why people haven't got a clue on what they can and can't do.

You'd be best to move to an available seat as reservations are in place (all be it after a farce).

Thanks for that, I was thinking if the reservations failed to download, then I imagine it would be treated the same as if you had an e-ticket but couldnt show it, leaving it null and void. Yes the guard did hide.

 

[Stampy]

Last few times I've been on LNER - there have been NO seat reservations on the actual train, even though I have one on my ticket......

Saturday's trip to and from Leeds was interesting (even with the Lincoln diversion) - people "scrumming" for seats at stations, walking up to their supposedly booked seat to be faced with a torrent of abuse from the person sat in them, no sign of the guard.

And this was both ways....

 

[Spandau]

In Norway it is possible to reserve a seat but there is no paper or electronic indication of that. Yet the system seems to work! Maybe Norwegians are less inclined to get into arguments?

 

[MDB1images]

I was on a Transpennine unit traveling from Edinburgh to Manchester on sunday and the guard announced that many of the seats were reserved and that the seat markets were slowly downloading, but this was after everyone was sat down, she then said that people would have to move from the reserved seats once they were downloaded, if that makes sense. How would you stand in this situation only once the seat indicators had downloaded a few people were sat in reserved seats, but indicated that they wouldnt move.

Do you know if the train was locked up before boarding or did passengers get on the train as it arrived from England?

 

[robbeech]

Last few times I've been on LNER - there have been NO seat reservations on the actual train, even though I have one on my ticket......

Saturday's trip to and from Leeds was interesting (even with the Lincoln diversion) - people "scrumming" for seats at stations, walking up to their supposedly booked seat to be faced with a torrent of abuse from the person sat in them, no sign of the guard.

And this was both ways....

reservations working on LNER has been less than 50% in the past few months for me (not that I’ve had one each time, just noticed the farce).
Of course I’m sure there will be people ready to tell us that they work 99.999999% of the time and it just coincidence.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Last time I went to Manchester, from Milton Keynes. I had bought Standard Premium tickets with a reservation. When I got on the train, I discovered that not only were the reservations not working, the first class host/guard had flogged our seats to some standard class ticketholders as an upgrade, do the staff not know which seats are reserved?

 

[shredder1]

Do you know if the train was locked up before boarding or did passengers get on the train as it arrived from England?

Ah yes good point, I think everyone got off and then all those waiting were let on, so no break really.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Last time I went to Manchester, from Milton Keynes. I had bought Standard Premium tickets with a reservation. When I got on the train, I discovered that not only were the reservations not working, the first class host/guard had flogged our seats to some standard class ticketholders as an upgrade, do the staff not know which seats are reserved?

Not unless they are displayed.

In Norway it is possible to reserve a seat but there is no paper or electronic indication of that. Yet the system seems to work! Maybe Norwegians are less inclined to get into arguments?

In Norway reservations are compulsory. It is fairly obvious that if you have compulsory reservations you don't need to mark them, because there is nobody who hasn't reserved a seat on the train (and if there is, you can rightly tell them to get lost).

With Avanti doing "pseudocompulsory" at the moment most people will have, SP is a specific issue as people can upgrade on board.

 

[pdeaves]

do the staff not know which seats are reserved?

They need a system that tells them which are reserved. That's the same system that tells the travelling public which are reserved. If the system fails to download, there is no way for anyone to know which are reserved and which are not.

 

[Fokx]

They need a system that tells them which are reserved. That's the same system that tells the travelling public which are reserved. If the system fails to download, there is no way for anyone to know which are reserved and which are not.

There is a traincrew web-application which informs staff of reservations on TPE staff phones called genius mobile

But one lone guard vs 300+ passengers isn’t going to end well.

 

[WildNorthlands]

In Norway it is possible to reserve a seat but there is no paper or electronic indication of that. Yet the system seems to work! Maybe Norwegians are less inclined to get into arguments?

Likewise in France n the TGVs there are no LED systems or cards to indicate when a seat is reserved. Reservations are mandatory - if you find someone sitting in your seats it's likely they just moved to get a better view and if you ask them politely to move they always do so.

 

[Taunton]

The reservations on Pendolinos have regularly failed to download at Euston ever since they were built. Apparently the wireless signal is often insufficient for this.

A classic was a trip from Kings Cross a while ago. Outward, on a class 801, nothing shown, described as "because it's a new train". Return with a class 91, the same, described as "because it's an old train".

The fact is, with the old printed paper reservation labels, I never knew them to fail to be applied. I know it looks technologically whizzy to the geeks, but it's really a big step backwards.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The fact is, with the old printed paper reservation labels, I never knew them to fail to be applied. I know it looks technologically whizzy to the geeks, but it's really a big step backwards.

Really? Unplaced reservations were very common.

 

[bramling]

Really? Unplaced reservations were very common.

At least in that situation everyone knows where they stand.

Having said that, it’s quite viable to work on the basis with the electronic systems that if the reservations aren’t displayed by the time the train is advertised for boarding then the service will not have reservations for its entire journey. Anything else is putting both passengers and staff in an avoidable potential conflict situation.

 

[Bletchleyite]

At least in that situation everyone knows where they stand.

Having said that, it’s quite viable to work on the basis with the electronic systems that if the reservations aren’t displayed by the time the train is advertised for boarding then the service will not have reservations for its entire journey. Anything else is putting both passengers and staff in an avoidable potential conflict situation.

What is needed is clear signage stating what applies if they are not shown. The mind boggles as to how this easy conflict avoidance measure is not taken.

But as you say, if the doors were released with them not showing, they should be switched off for the full journey.

 

[Taunton]

Really? Unplaced reservations were very common.

Well, my experiences differ. In half a century of travel I never had one not placed, nor saw any issue arising elsewhere in the carriage because of it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well, my experiences differ. In half a century of travel I never had one not placed, nor saw any issue arising elsewhere in the carriage because of it.

Maybe the Western was better at it than the WCML. That said I have had the issue on a FGW HST and it did cause arguments because they didn't make clear what applied.

 

[bramling]

What is needed is clear signage stating what applies if they are not shown. The mind boggles as to how this easy conflict avoidance measure is not taken.

But as you say, if the doors were released with them not showing, they should be switched off for the full journey.

Agreed, however signage alone doesn’t resolve the problem of what happens if a reservation suddenly turns on 5 minutes before the train leaves Euston (or wherever).

Personally I’m not a great fan of reservations anyway, the world doesn’t seem to end when and where they aren’t present.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Agreed, however signage alone doesn’t resolve the problem of what happens if a reservation suddenly turns on 5 minutes before the train leaves Euston (or wherever).

Personally I’m not a great fan of reservations anyway, the world doesn’t seem to end when and where they aren’t present.

There are two options for reservations if unmarked. One is that they don't apply. The other is that they do. With the "sure seat"/pseudocompulsory reservations policies presently applied to IC TOCs, the policy that makes more sense is that they DO apply (as more people will have them than not), with the unreserved coach clearly marked as such, and signage elsewhere stating that you must move if shown a valid reservation for the seat. That way round there is no problem whether displayed or not.

The only place it really causes an issue is Standard Premium, where I would be inclined to say if they are not shown then upgrades should not be sold on board.

 

[Horizon22]

I was under the impression any 80x unit would have reservations showing as soon as the guard / TM puts the correct headcode into the Train Management Software (TMS)? Unless of course there is some short-formation or seat reservations have been made unavailable for some other reason. Also late-running may mean trains might be boarded before everything has been set up. Evidently this relies on a download connection of some sort although this would normally be at an origin station, most of which are fairly central to towns and cities and should have decent connectivity.

At least in that situation everyone knows where they stand.

Having said that, it’s quite viable to work on the basis with the electronic systems that if the reservations aren’t displayed by the time the train is advertised for boarding then the service will not have reservations for its entire journey. Anything else is putting both passengers and staff in an avoidable potential conflict situation.

Ideally but I've been on a couple of services (both GWR and LNER) where the Train Manager has had to make manual announcements multiple signs stating that, despite the absence of electronic information, seat reservations should still be obeyed. Unfortunately on a busy service you do get the knock-on impact which displays each person throughout the train.

 

[route101]

In Norway it is possible to reserve a seat but there is no paper or electronic indication of that. Yet the system seems to work! Maybe Norwegians are less inclined to get into arguments?

Same in Spain and Greece. I prefer no seat reservations and longer trains when I travel but in reality you want a seat if its going to be busy.

 

[Jim the Jim]

I wonder if it doesn't help with conflict between passengers that tickets with reservations never cost more than the equivalent unreserved ticket, and frequently cost considerably less. I can imagine that the feeling of feeling aggrieved at being asked to move out of your seat isn't helped by knowing that the person demanding that special privilege probably paid less to travel than you did.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Reservations slow to download reminds me of an incident early in the Voyager era when on boarding well before departure the Guard announced there was a fault with the system and no reservations could be displayed at the moment but he was trying to see if a manual set of reservations (i.e. traditional card reservations) could be obtained. Some while later, still before departure, and with no progress I overheard the comment 'I wonder if he has found his manual yet'

 

[800001]

I was under the impression any 80x unit would have reservations showing as soon as the guard / TM puts the correct headcode into the Train Management Software (TMS)? Unless of course there is some short-formation or seat reservations have been made unavailable for some other reason. Also late-running may mean trains might be boarded before everything has been set up. Evidently this relies on a download connection of some sort although this would normally be at an origin station, most of which are fairly central to towns and cities and should have decent connectivity.



Ideally but I've been on a couple of services (both GWR and LNER) where the Train Manager has had to make manual announcements multiple signs stating that, despite the absence of electronic information, seat reservations should still be obeyed. Unfortunately on a busy service you do get the knock-on impact which displays each person throughout the train.

Lner and GWR reservations dome my the Train manager load via the WiFi, so at some stations like Kings Cross and Edinburgh the signal can be poor and takes a while to load.

 

[Bensonby]

What is needed is clear signage stating what applies if they are not shown. The mind boggles as to how this easy conflict avoidance measure is not taken.

But as you say, if the doors were released with them not showing, they should be switched off for the full journey.

To be fair, it is clear what happens if they aren’t displayed: there are no reservations. I am not a member of rail staff, never have been, and I’ve known that for many years. It’s clear from the byelaws which are easily accessible online.

 

[py_megapixel]

Lner and GWR reservations dome my the Train manager load via the WiFi, so at some stations like Kings Cross and Edinburgh the signal can be poor and takes a while to load.

Assuming the TMS knows the number of the unit it's fitted to, why can't it download the reservations for the whole diagram at the first opportunity? That would at least constrain the issues to the first departure on each diagram.

 

[800001]

Assuming the TMS knows the number of the unit it's fitted to, why can't it download the reservations for the whole diagram at the first opportunity? That would at least constrain the issues to the first departure on each diagram.

Because reservations can be made for Lner up to 5 minutes before departure.
At Starting stations (Kings Cross etc), the reservation list for train is ready to be down loaded about 25 min before departure.

To be fair, it is clear what happens if they aren’t displayed: there are no reservations. I am not a member of rail staff, never have been, and I’ve known that for many years. It’s clear from the byelaws which are easily accessible online.

Exactly, nothing displayed, equals sit where you want.

 

[py_megapixel]

Because reservations can be made for Lner up to 5 minutes before departure.
At Starting stations (Kings Cross etc), the reservation list for train is ready to be down loaded about 25 min before departure

But surely most reservations will have been made on a previous date.

They really should not be offering on-the-day reservations if there's no guarantee they'll be honoured.