Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
This is not the policy operated by every TOC. XC for instance consider that they always apply. With Avanti it seems to be up to the guard.
Which Byelaw please?
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Ticket reservations on seats slow to download.
- Thread starter shredder1
- Start date
- Status
This is not the policy operated by every TOC. XC for instance consider that they always apply. With Avanti it seems to be up to the guard.
Which Byelaw please?
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Requeststop
Member
Found myself having to travel up to Paddington from Truro this morning and boarded the train to find that the reservation system was not working. Assured that I, amongst many others travelling up from Penzance to Par, could sit anywhere announcements made to say so. Then suddenly just before Bodmin Parkway, the system was activated. Passengers were then having to move to other seats and the guard/train manager/conductor/inspector was cursing the driver who (apparently) responsible for turning on the system. Much inconvenience to many passengers who had to move themselves and luggage between carriages. Have to say that the guard/train manager/conductor/inspector, was excellent, calmly assisting the largely elderly passengers with great calm and patience.
headshot119
Established Member
My bold in the below.
13. Unauthorised access and loitering
No person shall:- enter or remain on any part of the railway where there is a notice:
- prohibiting access or
- indicating that it is reserved or provided for a specified category of person only, except where he belongs to that specified category
19. Classes of accommodation, reserved seats and sleeping berths
Except with permission from an authorised person, no person shall remain in any seat, berth or any part of a train where a notice indicates that it is reserved for a specified ticket holder or holders of tickets of a specific class, except the holder of a valid ticket entitling him to be in that particular place.Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
So the requires them to be marked in order for a prosecution to succeed. It does not say anything about TOC policy.
When was the last time someone was prosecuted for this?
When was the last time someone was prosecuted for this?
It would make sense to have the system work or not work but unfortunately i believe once the system has been told to download them it happens when it happens (this may vary from train to train, i'm not sure how much control the guard has)
This, whilst sensible isn't as profitable and therefore as a suggestion won't be happening.
Yes, a number of LNER guards enforce this and it causes upset amongst passengers as the announcement is only made one, often 10 minutes before departure meaning nobody who boards after this knows the guard is (wrongly) enforcing this, and nobody who boards before WITHOUT a seat reservation knows where they can sit.
It's clear apart from all the threads that talk about how is isn't clear. If its that clear to you perhaps you could offer training to railway staff who do not follow this.
This is the key issue with the whole system. It's largely unfit for purpose but we are stuck with it now for 30 years no doubt.
I was on a GWR service to Great Malvern the other weekend. A 5 car IET, initially with no reservations showing, then some, then more.
A family were sat at a table opposite me, all 4 seats were showing available, even after the previous updates. An angry little man came along waving his phone saying he'd paid for the seats the family were sitting in.
The father explained the seats were showing as available, his partner was heavily pregnant and the two other children were young and that they were only going to Slough, at which point the seats would be free.
The angry man was having none of it and caused such a scene the family went and stood in the packed gangway.
Who is in the right here? The family who sat at seats that were clearly listed as available, or the man that had the seats shown as reserved on his phone?
A family were sat at a table opposite me, all 4 seats were showing available, even after the previous updates. An angry little man came along waving his phone saying he'd paid for the seats the family were sitting in.
The father explained the seats were showing as available, his partner was heavily pregnant and the two other children were young and that they were only going to Slough, at which point the seats would be free.
The angry man was having none of it and caused such a scene the family went and stood in the packed gangway.
Who is in the right here? The family who sat at seats that were clearly listed as available, or the man that had the seats shown as reserved on his phone?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It's quite unusual for reservations to be showing wrongly rather than being off. It's thus very likely that "shouty man" was on the wrong train or in the wrong coach.
If someone is asking me to move from a seat I always ask them to show me their reservation. 99 times out of 100 they are wrong.
If someone is asking me to move from a seat I always ask them to show me their reservation. 99 times out of 100 they are wrong.
The family sitting in seats showing as available, every time. The angry little man had no right to his seat regardless if the seat was showing as available. If he was aggressive then any reasonable guard would have had them removed from the train.
I’ve actually found XC one of the worst for their reservation/no reservation policy. The problem is they seem to often ask people to sit in their reserved seats when reservations aren’t listed. The problem is that those who don’t have seat reservations have no idea of where to sit. It got a bit heated before when I was on one because a lady was asked to move by a passengerhad just boarded. She had said she had already moved 4 times and wasn’t going to be moving again. An argument then ensued.
The train manager was announcing to sit in your reserved seats and ‘we’ll sort out any confusion later’ and then didn’t come around and assist with any of the issues caused!
In comparison, GWR’s Twitter has confirmed on GWR services, reservations are not valid if they’re not displayed.
The train manager was announcing to sit in your reserved seats and ‘we’ll sort out any confusion later’ and then didn’t come around and assist with any of the issues caused!
In comparison, GWR’s Twitter has confirmed on GWR services, reservations are not valid if they’re not displayed.
Even if one of them was his seat (or he'd purchased 4 tickets + reservations? ISTR that it doesn't quite work like that in practice) and he was technically in the right, you'd be a colossal a*se to turf the family out for it. Swallow the pride and find another free seat (or wait til Swindon)
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The problem with XC is that the Voyager reservation system is incredibly unreliable, and so if you didn't say they applied anyway you would annoy your long distance passengers, who are the ones worth more money.
With more people reserving than not I don't, to be honest, mind this policy if the unreserved coach/area is clearly marked and never, ever reserved. It just needs clearly stating on signage. I'd also add one (aping the French thing about windows) that if there is a dispute about the blind, the default position is for it to be open (or closed, it barely matters which). Clearly displayed "house rules" minimise conflict, or at least aid in solving it.
Of course they didn't. Why would they go out there into the wild when they can....not go out there into the wild.
If the reservations were not on, I would say something like they're not on the display so they don't count.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
As outlined above this doesn't prevent TOCs having a different policy, but only allows them to prosecute in such a case. When was the last time someone was prosecuted for refusing to move from a reserved seat? If it isn't over 50 years ago I will eat my proverbial hat.
- Status