Ticket to London Terminals (avoiding Tube access)

[koolk]

Greetings!!

I travel from FNB to LBG (via WAT) on a weekly/monthly season ticket. My season ticket says - 'FNB to London Terminals'. Now, to reach LBG from WAT I do not have to take the tube (or pay extra for London Zone 1-6 access). Instead, I walk from WAT to WAE and take the southeastern service from WAE to LBG.

This saved me nearly £75 each month as I do not have to pay for Zone 1-6 for this 8-10 min jorney everyday.

Now, my question is:

I am planning to move to Milton Keynes and will need to take the train to London from MKC. Now my final destination will still be LBG (as I work there), but I am not clear that which ticket I need to buy from MKC:

MKC to London terminals - £468.50
OR
MKC to London Zones 1-6 - £544.60

I can save around £75 again if I do not buy the Zone 1-6 ticket.

The trouble is that no one is able to tell me if the ticket from 'MKC to London Terminals' will allow me to transit to LBG using National Rail only (no tube involved).

This is what I planning to do:

MKC to EUS - London Midland or Virgin Trains
Walk from EUS to STP
STP to LBG - London Thameslink (Bedford to Brighton service)

I have called National Rail CS and AOTC - but when I explain them my query they are just blank. Basically they just don't know the answer.

At one point, I was told that you can't walk from one station to another - to which I answered that at present I walk from WAT to WAE and that works.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/46587.aspx#terminals

 

[yorkie]

The trouble is that no one is able to tell me if the ticket from 'MKC to London Terminals' will allow me to transit to LBG using National Rail only (no tube involved).http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/46587.aspx#terminals

No, sorry, a London Terminals ticket is not valid to or via Farringdon. So the ticket is not valid to London Bridge.

(There are some exceptions to this but MKC - London isn't one of them)

 

[Abpj17]

You could consider driving over to Bedford (or Harlington/Flitwick) £412.80 to London Bridge (but will cease calling at London Bridge from December)

 

[jopsuk]

In fact, that's worthwhile pointing out- even if you did manage to find a valid MKC-LBG (Not Underground) ticket you idea (walk to St Pancras, get Thameslink there) is scuppered by the major TL works- for four years from December. Your route will not work during that time

If part of the idea is not just saving money, but avoiding crowding, I'd suggest that TL wouldn't help that much anyway!

 

[koolk]

Thank you you your responses!!

If part of the idea is not just saving money, but avoiding crowding, I'd suggest that TL wouldn't help that much anyway!

Yes, the idea is to save money - I don't mind crowded train or walking from EUS to STP if it is going to save me £75 each month.

You could consider driving over to Bedford (or Harlington/Flitwick) £412.80 to London Bridge (but will cease calling at London Bridge from December)

Driving to Bedford might mean a car park charge to pay at Beford station and also I have been told that there is congestion near Bedford station.

No, sorry, a London Terminals ticket is not valid to or via Farringdon. So the ticket is not valid to London Bridge.

So, what will happen if I buy 'MKC to London Terminals' monthly season ticket and walk from EUS to STP and insert my ticket in the barriers - will it not allow me in at all.

P.S. - Does the STP to LBG train pass through Farringdon? I have no idea what route it takes. From the time table I know that the train takes around 20-25 mins.

Also, oen of my collague who comes from Wellingborough(WEL) to STP and buys only ticket to 'London Terminals' just changes the train at STP and come to LBG. He is allowed coming from WEL - he passes through Farringdon as well, but I am not (from MKC). Strange.

 

[bb21]

If he buys a London Terminals ticket it is not valid to London Bridge. If he bought a London Thameslink ticket then he is. Wellingborough has that option whereas Milton Keynes does not.

The barrier may accept the ticket, however if caught, you will be liable for a Penalty Fare, or more likely in the case of the operator, prosecution.

 

[yorkie]

So, what will happen if I buy 'MKC to London Terminals' monthly season ticket and walk from EUS to STP and insert my ticket in the barriers - will it not allow me in at all.

It will probably work the barriers, but wouldn't be valid.

Also, oen of my collague who comes from Wellingborough(WEL) to STP and buys only ticket to 'London Terminals' just changes the train at STP and come to LBG. He is allowed coming from WEL - he passes through Farringdon as well, but I am not (from MKC). Strange.

If the ticket is issued to "London Terminals" this wouldn't appear to be valid, so could be liable for a Penalty Fare if caught (unless they had evidence to believe he was aware it wasn't valid, in which case they may prosecute).

 

[Tetchytyke]

Also, oen of my collague who comes from Wellingborough(WEL) to STP and buys only ticket to 'London Terminals' just changes the train at STP and come to LBG. He is allowed coming from WEL - he passes through Farringdon as well, but I am not (from MKC). Strange.

He is not allowed, as you cannot travel to or via Farringdon with a ticket to "London Terminals". From the north, a ticket to "London Terminals" is only valid to St Pancras*.

There is an exception to this with a season ticket valid on SouthEastern HighSpeed services, but this doesn't apply in this situation.

If you attempt to travel to or via Farringdon with a "London Terminals" ticket, you will not have a valid ticket and will be liable for a Penalty Fare, or prosecution if they think you do it every day to avoid paying the full fare due. The fact the ticket will operate the barriers at St Pancras and London Bridge does not mean that the ticket is valid.

If you wish to travel to or via Farringdon you need a ticket to "London Thameslink" or "London Zones 1-6". You can't get tickets to "London Thameslink" from Milton Keynes.

 

[OwlMan]

It will probably work the barriers, but wouldn't be valid.

If the ticket is issued to "London Terminals" this wouldn't appear to be valid, so could be liable for a Penalty Fare if caught (unless they had evidence to believe he was aware it wasn't valid, in which case they may prosecute).

A "Bedford Stations" to "London Thameslink" ticket is valid to Euston via Bletchley and from Kings Cross to London Bridge/ Elephant & Castle.It is also from Bletchley to Bedford.

 

[maniacmartin]

OwlMan can you elaborate why you think Euston is on a permitted route, as I didn't think Euston is a member of the London Thameslink group. Are you assuming a walk between Euston and St Pancras?

 

[bb21]

I thought Bletchley group (of which Milton Keynes Central is a member) has been abolished(?).

OwlMan can you elaborate why you think Euston is on a permitted route, as I didn't think Euston is a member of the London Thameslink group. Are you assuming a walk between Euston and St Pancras?

I believe we have had ATOC clarification on this matter iirc.

 

[OwlMan]

Bletchley Group is abolished so travel via Milton keynes is not allowed but travel direct from Bletchley to Euston is.

from iKB
Fares to and from central London stations on Thameslink route via St Pancras International, Farringdon, City Thameslink and Blackfriars



From all stations between Bedford and Kentish Town (inclusive) fares are available to ‘LONDON THAMESLINK’ (NLC 4452). These may be used via the Thameslink route to travel to St Pancras International, Farringdon, City Thameslink, London Blackfriars, London Bridge or Elephant & Castle. In addition, tickets from Bedford Stations to London Thameslink are also valid to London Euston via Bletchley (and vice versa).

 

[yorkie]

Also, oen of my collague who comes from Wellingborough(WEL) to STP and buys only ticket to 'London Terminals' just changes the train at STP and come to LBG. He is allowed coming from WEL - he passes through Farringdon as well, but I am not (from MKC). Strange.

If the ticket is issued to "London Terminals" this wouldn't appear to be valid, so could be liable for a Penalty Fare if caught (unless they had evidence to believe he was aware it wasn't valid, in which case they may prosecute).

To clarify;
Wellingborough - London Thameslink is valid to London Bridge
Wellingborough - London Terminals is not valid to London Bridge

If he has a London Terminals ticket, you may wish to advise him to obtain a Season Ticket Changeover.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I thought it had too, but National Rail Enquiries will give an itinerary Bedford to London Bridge via Bletchley with a single ticket (and not a Day Travelcard).

There is a season ticket which is inter-available at both Milton Keynes Central and Bedford, but this is only to the destinations "London Terminals" or "London Zones 1-6". It's inter-available but I don't know if that means it is valid for Bedford to Bletchley inclusive.

 

[OwlMan]

A Milton Keynes - London Terminals is £4772
A Milton Keynes - London Zones 1-6 is 5672

A Bletchley - London Terminals is £4128
A Bletchley - London Zones 1-6 is £5028

A Bedford - London Thameslink annual is £4300.
If the OP starts from Bletchley and goes direct to Euston (not via Milton Keynes) the above are the fares.
If he wishes to start from Milton Keynes then he will have to add on travel to Bletchley as below:
A MKC to Bletchley SDR is £5.80 which is £29 per week.
Say for 40 weeks per year is £1160.
Gives a total of £5460 to travel from MKC to London Bridge per year using a 19(c) split on the non stop trains
If the OP has the time a MKC to Bletchley season is £668 giving a total of £4968 for trains that stop at Bletchley.

There is a season ticket which is inter-available at both Milton Keynes Central and Bedford, but this is only to the destinations "London Terminals" or "London Zones 1-6". It's inter-available but I don't know if that means it is valid for Bedford to Bletchley inclusive.

That is £4880 but only valid to London Terminals.

 

[Tetchytyke]

That is £4880 but only valid to London Terminals.

NRE says there's a Z1-6 option at £5800.

 

[bb21]

That would be a Milton Keynes Central - London Zones 1-6 Route AAA Bedford Stns Travelcard Season.