TIL Letter, likely court summons for Fare Evasion?

[WhoopsWrongNam]

Hi all,

I've received a letter from Transport Investigations this week in relation to an event that took place in mid-November 2021. In all honesty, it's now so long ago that recollecting the events are a slight struggle. I'm not looking for sympathy or for anyone to protest innocence or guilt, I just want to know what the best steps to take from here are, and if I'm likely to face a prosecution and Criminal Record without the intervention of a solicitor.

1. In mid-November I awoke late after a night-shift and had a lunch reservation with some family and friends in the city centre.
2. I travelled on the 11am service from Acocks Green to Birmingham Moor Street with a friend, as we had approached the train station as the train arrived, we did not have time to buy tickets.
3. Whilst on the train, I looked for a ticket collector to buy a ticket from but I couldn't find one present.
4. With that in mind, I bought an open return ticket for the same exact service an hour later, as I was no longer able to buy a ticket for the service I was on
5. The signal leading into Moor Street can drop quite a lot, so I completed this purchase literally as I disembarked the train. The best proof I have of this was a purchase receipt for the ticket a minute after the train was scheduled to arrive in Moor Street
6. I went through the barriers without issue, but as my friend was still without a ticket, he bought one at the barriers. At this point he was stopped by a member of Revenue Protection Staff, and I was asked to return to the other side of the barriers to have my ticket checked.
7. I explained I had bought a ticket thinking what I had done was essentially fine, however I was told it was an offence.
8. I apologised and asked to pay a fine, or if the fact I had paid for a a following ticket made any difference but I was told no to both.
9. They collected our details, and three months and a day later, I have received this letter.

I don't have a huge amount of time left to respond to this claim. The current letter isn't a court summons, but it states that:
"The report of this incident indicates that in absence of a satisfactory explanation, evidence does warrant a prosecution in accordance with current legislation..."
So I assume that whatever I respond with is likely to result in a court summons. I've had no previous trouble with the law and genuinely thought my actions were fine at the time of the incident, although I'm aware 'honest mistakes' often don't quash prosecutions in court.

My questions are:

1. What is the likelihood of my response with the above details mentioned, leading to a court summons and a prosecution?
2. Would this conviction be apparent on a DBS and immigrations check? How long do these last for?
3. If my main goal is to avoid a prosecution and criminal conviction through whatever means necessary, is there anything else do to aside from immediately contacting a solicitor?
   1. If I am to contact a solicitor, should I respond with my version of events listed above before involving a private solicitor?

Again, I'm not looking for sympathy as I understand now the laws and rules that I have broken. I'm just about to start my Grad Job and will be required to travel and contract for other businesses, so I need to avoid a criminal conviction no matter what.

Thanks in advance for any responses.

 

[island]

It's an offence to join a train without a ticket at a station with ticketing facilities – not allowing yourself enough time to buy a ticket doesn't constitute an excuse I'm afraid.

Most train companies will settle matters like this out of court after relieving you of a three figure sum in respect of admin costs and fares avoided. But even if they don't, based on your detailed account of events, the most you could be convicted of is a railway byelaw offence, which would not normally appear on a criminal record (at all).

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Here's the advice I normally give to people who come here seeking our advice in circumstyances similar to yours.

It sounds like the letter you have received states that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company would be well within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be a few hundred pounds plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

If you post a copy of your draft reply to the letter in this thread I'm sure forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[WesternLancer]

Obviously Hadders advice is well tried and tested - but maybe it is worth the OP thinking about removing the 4th bullet point and substituting it with 'I had no intention to evade buying a ticket and purchased one when I was able to do so, having found no staff member was available to sell one on board' - back that up with the proof of what you did buy and see what they say

Since we seem to see that TIL require further letters to persuade them not to prosecute, you could then offer to pay the settlement in a subsequent response if they are not prepares to accept this?

There is an element of risk about it but you will have to consider if it is worth taking that risk. But if they will not settle 1st reply anyway you may have little to loose in asking. Other forum members may disagree however.

Whatever you reply you must emphasis that you had no intention whatsoever of not paying for your journey / ticket.

The problem is no doubt that your friend, by buying at the barriers, made it look like they were the sort of person who only buys a ticket when challenged, and is thus an easy t identify type of fare dodger in the eyes of barrier line /revenue protection staff. This then focussed attention on you (and of course had you juts kept on walking and walked away probably nothing would have happened to you, so you are being punished for what you will feel was a genuine mistake with no intention to evade payment)

But of course you should note that @island response is the clear and correct statement of the law, which is on TIL / the railway's side. So you would have to be appealing to their good nature - and I'm not sure that in examples that come to this forum there is much evidence of TIL showing good nature on a frequent basis.

- also note for future if of help to know - that I guess you buy tickets on line through some sort of Trainline style app that makes you specify the train (you say "I bought a ticket for the next train" - so worth you being aware that for local journeys like this - or indeed many longer journey's - there is almost certainly no such thing as a ticket for a specific train - it will be a ticket valid on all off peak trains, or all trains (a so called 'anytime' ticket) - so there is no doubt your ticket would have been valid had you bought it a bit earlier.

Good luck and let us know how you get on. Feel free to post your draft reply on here for advice on content.

 

[Haywain]

The problem is no doubt that your friend, by buying at the barriers, made it look like they were the sort of person who only buys a ticket when challenged,

I think showing you bought a ticket on your phone when the train had arrived at your destination (and you've seen that barriers are in operation?) can be seen as indicating much the same thing. It would be easy to have the purchase all set up and only complete it if 'necessary'.

 

[WhoopsWrongNam]

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company would be well within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

G'morning @Hadders, I was actually just reading some advice from both you and @WesternLancer on another thread and really glad to have both of your advice. In these sorts of scenarios, how prudent is it to seek out legal representation? I had a response written but stopped myself from sending it (fairly glad I did as it was a lot of babble). I'm about to start a Grad Scheme that requires a lot of travel and some company NDA's and am fairly sure a criminal conviction would end the path my career is about to take. That being said - the quote I received for this was £700 pre-tax which is a wedge and a half. I'm going to trim down my response and put a copy below this in a few minutes. Thanks again!

Whatever you reply you must emphasis that you had no intention whatsoever of not paying for your journey / ticket.

This is some very important advice I feel, I have stressed this in my letter but will make sure to emphasise this further.

- also note for future if of help to know - that I guess you buy tickets on line through some sort of Trainline style app that makes you specify the train (you say "I bought a ticket for the next train" - so worth you being aware that for local journeys like this - or indeed many longer journey's - there is almost certainly no such thing as a ticket for a specific train - it will be a ticket valid on all off peak trains, or all trains (a so called 'anytime' ticket) - so there is no doubt your ticket would have been valid had you bought it a bit earlier.

This is also some really quality information. So in this sense, the ticket I had at the time is valid, but because the member of Revenue Protection staff believes I only purchased it as the train disembarked, I am being deemed as a fare dodger?

I think showing you bought a ticket on your phone when the train had arrived at your destination (and you've seen that barriers are in operation?) can be seen as indicating much the same thing. It would be easy to have he purchase all set up and only complete it if 'necessary'.

Unfortunately I tend to agree. I think it's very fair to make the assumption that on a busy weekend train, the act of purchasing the correct ticket and having the internet connection to do so isn't an 'instant' action and does take an amount of time, however it doesn't prove anything in my favour.

Again, thanks all for the responses, I'll post my updated response letter in a few moments. Also, if anyone has any advice as to whether specialised legal counsel is worthwhile, again I'd appreciate it. I could afford it out of my savings but only just and i'd really like to avoid that as I'm currently in-between jobs. I also will be starting a career where if I get a full criminal conviction, I'd probably be looking at dismissal from my company (I nervously presume).

 

[Haywain]

This is also some really quality information. So in this sense, the ticket I had at the time is valid, but because the member of Revenue Protection staff believes I only purchased it as the train disembarked, I am being deemed as a fare dodger?

The ticket was valid to use AFTER you had bought it. You travelled without a valid ticket.

Also, if anyone has any advice as to whether specialised legal counsel is worthwhile, again I'd appreciate it.

An expensive way of achieving what you can do yourself.

 

[WhoopsWrongNam]

The ticket was valid to use AFTER you had bought it. You travelled without a valid ticket.

Ah yes right you are, I had already disembarked the service.

An expensive way of achieving what you can do yourself.

From everything I've read online it seems navigating TIL and getting them to agree to a settlement is an incredibly difficult task. Do you think I'm likely to achieve it myself?

Here is my shortened response letter below - any feedback or criticism is very welcomed:
To whom it may concern,

I am writing to you in response to the correspondence received relating to case REF:XXXXXXX

On the 14th of November, I was stopped at the end of a journey between Acocks Green and Birmingham Moor Street by a member of the Revenue Protection staff. I had awoken late that morning and had lunch plans with family, a friend and I rushed to Acocks Green train station to see the train we were to board had already arrived at the station. Realising we wouldn’t have time to purchase a ticket from the ticket office, we boarded in the hopes of seeing a Ticket Collector who would be able to sell us a ticket during service. During the journey, it became apparent there was no such member of staff, so I used the ‘Trainline’ app to purchase a ticket. Due to the train ride being only 6 minutes (11:41 – 11:47) and needing to find the correct stations, and inconsistent signal on approach to Birmingham Moor Street, this action was completed at 11:48. This was for the following service (12:41-12:47).

At the station, I passed through the gates without incident. The person I was travelling with stood by the gates and used their phone to purchase a ticket, at which point he was questioned by a member of staff and I was asked to re-enter the station. Upon inspection, I was told that by using a ticket for the next service, I was travelling without a valid ticket. I apologised as I assumed in purchasing a ticket, I believed I had fairy paid for my passage. I explained to the attending member of staff that in no way whatsoever did I intend to not pay for a ticket on the service and attempted to show that through the ticket I had purchased.

Through this event and the documentation supplied by TIL, I can see without question how I broke the rules. In boarding a train without a ticket pre-purchased, I violated my right of fair passage on the service – as well as the related byelaws. In this experience, I have learned the importance of the Revenue Protection staff in enforcing the rules of travel on all British Rail Services – including that of Chiltern Railways. I have also realised how foolish it was of me to think I could board a train before purchasing a ticket without causing negative consequences to the Railway company. I have learned greatly from these mistakes and won’t make them in any way again. I would like to stress how I never had the intention of trying to not pay for a ticket. I believe I have shown this through my intention to find a ticket collector onboard the service, through beginning to purchase a ticket before I arrived at the station, and through my willingness to re-enter the station to talk to the Revenue Protection Staff.

I would like to ask if it possible to resolve this matter without going to court...

(Also attached is the picture of the ticket I bought at 11:48)

 

[Haywain]

Do you think I'm likely to achieve it myself?

Check out other threads - it seems that most do avoid court although you have to work slightly harder (write more than once) than when dealing directly with a train company.

 

[WesternLancer]

1) In these sorts of scenarios, how prudent is it to seek out legal representation?

2) This is also some really quality information. So in this sense, the ticket I had at the time is valid, but because the member of Revenue Protection staff believes I only purchased it as the train disembarked, I am being deemed as a fare dodger?

Thanks for your comments. Ref the above points specifically

1) lots of cases similar to this on the forum sorted without legal advice - but I guess depends on what is at stake for you I guess. I'd tend to think you do not need it - esp if you are happy to take advice on draft responses here from forum members etc, cooperate with the railway and probably it won't be worse than a £100 to £200 type of payment that you will have to make to settle before court action. BUT if you are a student it may be that you can get some free advice / legals advice via your Student Union and if so probably worth taking free help / advice if that is an option.

2) Not quite that simple. The ticket was valid I expect, but you did not have it when you boarded the train, and that is the offence in this case. I assume there is a time stamp on your purchase completion and you could maybe (with the aid of a timetable perhaps) work out what train you were on, but as you have said you boarded with out the ticket and that is the problem, so 'slam dunk' guilty of that offence it seems to me (ie the offence is not eg 'intending to travel without a ticket' for example.

Basically you have to have a ticket the moment you board a train, or often in reality go beyond what might be termed the 'barrier line' of a station esp if staff think you have the intention to travel as it were. And there are probably some 'small print' type posters at every station that state this.

By the way - you have not said what train company - is this TIL acting for West Midlands Trains, or Chiltern (who operate Moor Street maybe?) or someone else (not that it makes a massive difference I fear).

Good luck in any case.

EDIT - just saw your draft posted just now - my initial instinct is not at all bad but do whatever you can to make this even shorter.


eg 1st para could be edited alng these lines

On the 14th of November, I was stopped at the end of a journey between Acocks Green and Birmingham Moor Street by a member of the Revenue Protection staff. I had awoken late that morning and had lunch plans with family, a friend and I had arrived at Acocks Green train station to see the train we were to board had already arrived at the station. Realising we wouldn’t have time to purchase a ticket from the ticket office, We boarded intending to see the hopes of seeing a Ticket Collector who would be able to sell us a ticket during service. During the journey, it became apparent there was no such member of staff, so I used the ‘Trainline’ app to purchase a ticket. Due to the train ride being only 6 minutes (11:41 – 11:47) and needing to find the correct stations, and inconsistent signal on approach to Birmingham Moor Street, this action was completed at 11:48. This was for the following service (12:41-12:47).

etc

 

[Haywain]

Here is my shortened response letter below - any feedback or criticism is very welcomed:

Far too long, and too much irrelevant stuff. They don't care why you were travelling, for instance.

 

[furlong]

The first thing to establish is whether the ticket, other than being bought late, was in fact 100% correct for the journey made. If that is the case and the train company had received its money and the journey could be regarded as completed before any intervention by the company, what exactly would be the purpose of a prosecution? Surely no further money would be due to the train company if the fare was already paid - this would amount to a prosecution over a technicality in a situation where the person concerned might be considered to have acted both reasonably and honestly - which potentially brings the law into disrepute. (In legal terms, 'abuse of process' comes to mind, and failing that if convicted conditional or even absolute discharge potentially with prosecution paying costs.) A solicitor might give you the best chance of making these arguments but at a price.

 

[Hadders]

There is no need to involve a solicitor at this stage. As long as you engage with the process it is likjely that you will be offered an administrative settlement. If you do get summonsed then that would be the point to involve a solicitor.

As for the rudeness and mannerof the member of staff that is a separate matter and I would lodge a complaint to the train company after the matter against you has been concluded.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

The first thing to establish is whether the ticket, other than being bought late, was in fact 100% correct for the journey made. If that is the case and the train company had received its money and the journey could be regarded as completed before any intervention by the company, what exactly would be the purpose of a prosecution? Surely no further money would be due to the train company if the fare was already paid - this would amount to a prosecution over a technicality in a situation where the person concerned might be considered to have acted both reasonably and honestly - which potentially brings the law into disrepute. (In legal terms, 'abuse of process' comes to mind, and failing that if convicted conditional or even absolute discharge potentially with prosecution paying costs.) A solicitor might give you the best chance of making these arguments but at a price.

This is one of the few occasions when I think it might be worth getting a solicitor involved.

• According to https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=ACG&dest=BMO, the only single fares available between Acocks Green and Birmingham Moor Street are Anytime Day Singles and Evening Day Singles (returns for travellers who aren't in a group are Anytime Day, Off-Peak Day and Evening Day). Since the OP tells us that they travelled on the 1141 and the next train (for which the ticket was obtained) was the 1241 then unless Trainline incorrectly sold an evening ticket that wouldn't have been valid the ticket was (excepting the point about not being held before boarding) valid.
• There is no dispute that the ticket should have been held before boarding and so the OP is guilty of a byelaw 18 offence of travelling without a valid ticket (because the ticket could have been bought before travel, but wasn't)
• But as the OP paid for the appropriate ticket, the railway is not out of pocket in terms of the fare
• The OP is about to start a new job and believes that their new employer will take a very hard line on any offence having been committed. I note that this doesn't generally seem to be the case, but employers can be harsher on new staff than people already in post, and the OP is in a better position to know what their employer will think than we are. And getting this particular job seems to be very important to the OP.

In all the circumstances, there is very little for the railway to gain (they already have the fare that they were entitled to). So a firm letter from a solicitor making it clear that the OP will contest the matter (maybe on the grounds suggested by @furlong) may well be effective in getting the railway to withdraw, or agree to an out of court settlement.

Getting a solicitor to write a letter like this will not be cheap - although the OP may be able to get an initial free interview to discuss the possibilities with someone at a lawyers' practice. So the OP needs to decide how much their new job is worth to them - and how much damage the worst case of being convicted would do to their chance of getting the job.

 

[WhoopsWrongNam]

By the way - you have not said what train company - is this TIL acting for West Midlands Trains, or Chiltern (who operate Moor Street maybe?) or someone else (not that it makes a massive difference I fear).

It's TIL operation on behalf of Chiltern Railways. Again, really appreciate your input on my response letter.

The first thing to establish is whether the ticket, other than being bought late, was in fact 100% correct for the journey made.

It was the correct ticket, an open return, at the same price for the journey taken. From what I've gathered though, this makes little difference in the eyes of the law IF they choose to prosecute. Although I paid the company the same amount before leaving the station, it doesn't seem to be impactful in terms of a prosecution.

Far too long, and too much irrelevant stuff. They don't care why you were travelling, for instance.

I was just lucky enough to receive about 5 minutes of pro-bono legal advice from a solicitor who was very knowledgeable on dealing with TIL. She said the main things to consider when writing this are:

1. Be nice, don't try to argue, talk about what you've learned from your mistakes.
2. Mention the career i'm going into and the DBS and enhanced DBS checks and how a criminal conviction is likely to end my career.
3. Ask to settle out of court based on this being a first offence, a mistake, career input etc.
4. Interestingly she said to mention the friend whom I travelled with who was offered administrative disposal and ask for the same leniency.

With these in mind, I've redrafted a response, although her input has made it longer.

This is one of the few occasions when I think it might be worth getting a solicitor involved.

I completely agree actually. I'd spoken to a few solicitors who said getting a solicitor involved would be beneficial. However the one who offered me free advice said at this stage it's not needed yet, and that TIL are normally quite reasonable. She said her office only offer services if they have literally nothing else on and for her to write the letter for me, it would cost £900 pre-VAT. Although this job is extremely important to me, I think I'm going to send the below response and see what comes back first.

 

[WhoopsWrongNam]

Response updated with solicitors input:

To whom it may concern,

I am writing to you in response to the correspondence received relating to case REF:

On the 14th of November, I was stopped at the end of a journey between Acocks Green and Birmingham Moor Street by a member of the Revenue Protection staff. At Acocks Green station I saw the train in question was about to depart so I boarded with the intention of buying a ticket from a Ticket Collection Officer. Seeing that there was not one present, I used the ‘Trainline’ app to purchase a ticket. Due to the train ride being only 6 minutes (11:41 – 11:47) and needing to find the correct stations, and inconsistent signal on approach to Birmingham Moor Street, this action was completed at 11:48. This was for the following service via the same route.

At the station, I passed through the gates without incident. My travelling companion stopped at the gates to buy his ticket online, at which point he was stopped, and I was asked to re-enter the station. Upon inspection, I was told that by using a ticket for the next service, I was travelling without a valid ticket. I apologised as I assumed in purchasing a ticket, I believed I had fairly paid for my passage. I explained to the attending member of staff that in no way whatsoever did I intend to not pay for a ticket on the service and attempted to show that through the ticket I had purchased.

Through this event and the documentation supplied by TIL, I can see without question how I broke the rules. In boarding a train without a ticket pre-purchased, I violated my right of fair passage on the service – as well as the related byelaws. In this experience, I have learned the importance of the Revenue Protection staff in enforcing the rules of travel on all British Rail Services – including that of Chiltern Railways. I have also realised how foolish it was of me to think I could board a train before purchasing a ticket without causing negative consequences to the Railway company. I have learned greatly from these mistakes and won’t make them in any way again. I would like to stress how I never had the intention of trying to not pay for a ticket. I believe I have shown this through my intention to find a ticket collector onboard the service, through beginning to purchase a ticket before I arrived at the station, and through my willingness to re-enter the station to talk to the Revenue Protection Staff.

This is my first offence and I have never been in trouble with the law before this incident. In the next month, I am starting my career with ... and will be subject of regular DBS and enhanced DBS checks while working on company projects. A criminal conviction related to this matter is likely to end my career in the current moment. The person I travelled with REF: was offered resolution through administrative disposal. I too would like to ask for the possibility of reaching an out of court settlement and not to seek a prosecution for a first-time offence and incredibly stupid mistake. I would like to again apologise for the mistakes I have made and the amount of work this has created for the staff of Chiltern Railways and TIL, and assert that the lessons I have learned from this ensure I will never make such a foolish mistake again.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi all,

I've received a letter from Transport Investigations this week in relation to an event that took place in mid-November 2021. In all honesty, it's now so long ago that recollecting the events are a slight struggle. I'm not looking for sympathy or for anyone to protest innocence or guilt, I just want to know what the best steps to take from here are, and if I'm likely to face a prosecution and Criminal Record without the intervention of a solicitor.

1. In mid-November I awoke late after a night-shift and had a lunch reservation with some family and friends in the city centre.
2. I travelled on the 11am service from Acocks Green to Birmingham Moor Street with a friend, as we had approached the train station as the train arrived, we did not have time to buy tickets.
3. Whilst on the train, I looked for a ticket collector to buy a ticket from but I couldn't find one present.
4. With that in mind, I bought an open return ticket for the same exact service an hour later, as I was no longer able to buy a ticket for the service I was on
5. The signal leading into Moor Street can drop quite a lot, so I completed this purchase literally as I disembarked the train. The best proof I have of this was a purchase receipt for the ticket a minute after the train was scheduled to arrive in Moor Street
6. I went through the barriers without issue, but as my friend was still without a ticket, he bought one at the barriers. At this point he was stopped by a member of Revenue Protection Staff, and I was asked to return to the other side of the barriers to have my ticket checked.
7. I explained I had bought a ticket thinking what I had done was essentially fine, however I was told it was an offence.
8. I apologised and asked to pay a fine, or if the fact I had paid for a a following ticket made any difference but I was told no to both.
9. They collected our details, and three months and a day later, I have received this letter.

I don't have a huge amount of time left to respond to this claim. The current letter isn't a court summons, but it states that:
"The report of this incident indicates that in absence of a satisfactory explanation, evidence does warrant a prosecution in accordance with current legislation..."
So I assume that whatever I respond with is likely to result in a court summons. I've had no previous trouble with the law and genuinely thought my actions were fine at the time of the incident, although I'm aware 'honest mistakes' often don't quash prosecutions in court.

My questions are:

1. What is the likelihood of my response with the above details mentioned, leading to a court summons and a prosecution?
2. Would this conviction be apparent on a DBS and immigrations check? How long do these last for?
3. If my main goal is to avoid a prosecution and criminal conviction through whatever means necessary, is there anything else do to aside from immediately contacting a solicitor?
   1. If I am to contact a solicitor, should I respond with my version of events listed above before involving a private solicitor?

Again, I'm not looking for sympathy as I understand now the laws and rules that I have broken. I'm just about to start my Grad Job and will be required to travel and contract for other businesses, so I need to avoid a criminal conviction no matter what.

Thanks in advance for any responses.

occurs to me to ask if your user name here is a version of your actual name you may want to ask the moderators to alter it in case you are easy to identify from the thread (eg to anyone reading this on behalf of the rail company - tho I can see that the journey details etc probably are easy to catch up with caseload - just a thought.

Obv you are being completely straight here IMHO and not seeking to disguise anything you actually did - so it may not be an issue of any concern.

BTW - I still think you could edit down your draft whilst still adding the extra info the solicitor advised that you add in.

I would always end a letter like this with 'an ask' of what you want - which if it is to settle without court action then put that in the last line as a separate paragraph on it's own - ie a one liner. I say this because I used to work in a job where we got a lot of letters from members of the public - we would always tend to skim them 1st and go to the 1st para (what is all this about) and the end (to try and find out what it was the person actually wanted us to do), so think abut it from that perspective.

 

[WhoopsWrongNam]

occurs to me to ask if your user name here is a version of your actual name you may want to ask the moderators to alter it in case you are easy to identify from the thread (eg to anyone reading this on behalf of the rail company - tho I can see that the journey details etc probably are easy to catch up with caseload - just a thought.

Obv you are being completely straight here IMHO and not seeking to disguise anything you actually did - so it may not be an issue of any concern.

BTW - I still think you could edit down your draft whilst still adding the extra info the solicitor advised that you add in.

I would always end a letter like this with 'an ask' of what you want - which if it is to settle without court action then put that in the last line as a separate paragraph on it's own - ie a one liner. I say this because I used to work in a job where we got a lot of letters from members of the public - we would always tend to skim them 1st and go to the 1st para (what is all this about) and the end (to try and find out what it was the person actually wanted us to do), so think abut it from that perspective.

Haha yes it was, I noticed in my haste in making the account I had done this and wondered if it would be an issue. As you say as everything I have put forward is an accurate and honest account of what happened, I didn't think it would be an issue. Still, I thought it was best in case it would have any negative effect on my case.

I've decided to go down the route of getting a solicitor involved at this stage. It's a very expensive safeguard and one that comes with no guarantee, but as @Fawkes Cat stated, this jobs really does mean the world to me. I was offered the position last June but because of Covid it's been delayed over and over, and although I'm not certain - I know a criminal conviction would definitely affect my future or even the chance of holding that position at all. I know a fair amount of you don't think that it's necessary as did some of the solicitors I spoke to. Still, I'd much rather have someone try to help me rectify this with the smallest chance of a criminal conviction.

As of tomorrow I'm passing it over to the solicitor representing me. I'll be sure to update this thread with any results of this as and when I receive them.

Thanks all for the above help and guidance, this community is fully of incredibly helpful and friendly people.

Cheers!

 

[AlterEgo]

OP, which offence are they trying to prosecute you for?

Bylaw convictions are non-recordable and will not show on the Police National Computer, if this is what worries you.

 

[WesternLancer]

Haha yes it was, I noticed in my haste in making the account I had done this and wondered if it would be an issue. As you say as everything I have put forward is an accurate and honest account of what happened, I didn't think it would be an issue. Still, I thought it was best in case it would have any negative effect on my case.

I've decided to go down the route of getting a solicitor involved at this stage. It's a very expensive safeguard and one that comes with no guarantee, but as @Fawkes Cat stated, this jobs really does mean the world to me. I was offered the position last June but because of Covid it's been delayed over and over, and although I'm not certain - I know a criminal conviction would definitely affect my future or even the chance of holding that position at all. I know a fair amount of you don't think that it's necessary as did some of the solicitors I spoke to. Still, I'd much rather have someone try to help me rectify this with the smallest chance of a criminal conviction.

As of tomorrow I'm passing it over to the solicitor representing me. I'll be sure to update this thread with any results of this as and when I receive them.

Thanks all for the above help and guidance, this community is fully of incredibly helpful and friendly people.

Cheers!

Thanks for update - hope this works out, do let us know how it goes. I would think the sort of argument #12 from @furlong makes might be something they could advice for you. Really for the added cost of the legal help they ought to aim to get to a point that is case dropped - not simply writing a better letter than you or we can to get a settlement payment, but not being a solicitor it may be that I am not being fair on them in that observation (!) - so it will be interesting to see how they get on and their approach - also of interest to other users in future who consider the solicitor option.

Many people do not rtn to say what firm they use or how much they paid, but I have noted cases on here in the last 6 months (maybe 1 or 2) that have used solicitors have been successful, and have cited solicitor costs of in the region of £500 to £600. I think the 2 I recall were in the London area.

Do hope this works out OK for you, and good luck with that job!

 

[RPI]

I would have thought you could only really be guilty of the byelaw 18 offence by entering a train for the purpose of travelling without having a valid ticket, as others have said the railway isn't out of pocket and would very much struggle to prove any intent, it could be argued that it looks as if you only bought a ticket when you arrived at the gates by the time of purchase, had the gates been open would a ticket have been purchased? I'm not saying that's what you did but thats how it could look.

 

[Bigbarts]

What happened here after? Did the letter support your case or were you summonsed to court?

 

[Haywain]

What happened here after? Did the letter support your case or were you summonsed to court?

If you would like assistance you would be better to start your own thread.

 

[WhoopsWrongNam]

What happened here after? Did the letter support your case or were you summonsed to court?

If you're reaching out to ask, I can only assume that you are currently in the same predicament I was in 3 months ago.

Apologies to those who reached out to offer my assistance and guidance during this time. I promised I'd return with feedback as to what had happened but fortunately, I was able to start my new job and have been quite busy and absent minded since.

To keep it relatively short @Bigbarts, I got lucky.

When I say I got lucky, I'll start by saying that I got perhaps a little unlucky. 3 months on, I still feel like the stupidity of the situation of having gotten on a 7minute train with the intention of getting a ticket but being unable to buy one mid-journey, could result in the chaos that ensues, is ridiculous - and for my friend to get a £60 fine wherein I got a court summons, is also - ridiculous.

I contacted a number of different solicitors over the week of writing out the above thread. Most solicitors involved in Rail Fare Evasion work in London because far less cases exist outside of TFL, which is interesting because apparently TFL rarely if ever try and take you to court. Out of the 4 solicitors that I spoke to, I picked the only one who wasn't demeaning or presumptive.

After they took my case, they said the situation seemed highly unusual and that as such a trivial matter, it should be resolved very quickly. The member of the Rail Fare staff that I had spoken to had marked my case as 'rude and aggressive' and had marked that Chiltern Railways should not settle out of court - 'under any circumstance'. I still am flabbergasted even to be writing this months later. I've had no trouble with the law, I'm a productive member of society, and I'm not known to be rude. argumentative, or to have any associated aggressions. The person who I spoke to was looking for someone's day to ruin - and because there are no further checks in place, he almost ruined my career.

I was incredibly fortunate in that the solicitor I had chosen personally knew the court appointed solicitor(?) who was representing Chiltern Rail, and was able to seek an out of court resolution. If it wasn't for this, there was not a single chance I would have been able to keep my job. ]

A horrendously stressful situation yes, but what's done is done and it is now in the past. Still, this cost me over £1k in fees and an OoCS. @Bigbarts, if you're in the same situation I'd assess whether you can hack a criminal record or if you're willing to pay that to fight it.

I'd probably walk away from this being extremely frustrated with the UK Rail in general, but I can't thank those who reached out with support and affirmations to get me through this. Special thanks to @WesternLancer @Fawkes Cat & @Haywain

 

[WesternLancer]

If you're reaching out to ask, I can only assume that you are currently in the same predicament I was in 3 months ago.

Apologies to those who reached out to offer my assistance and guidance during this time. I promised I'd return with feedback as to what had happened but fortunately, I was able to start my new job and have been quite busy and absent minded since.

To keep it relatively short @Bigbarts, I got lucky.

When I say I got lucky, I'll start by saying that I got perhaps a little unlucky. 3 months on, I still feel like the stupidity of the situation of having gotten on a 7minute train with the intention of getting a ticket but being unable to buy one mid-journey, could result in the chaos that ensues, is ridiculous - and for my friend to get a £60 fine wherein I got a court summons, is also - ridiculous.

I contacted a number of different solicitors over the week of writing out the above thread. Most solicitors involved in Rail Fare Evasion work in London because far less cases exist outside of TFL, which is interesting because apparently TFL rarely if ever try and take you to court. Out of the 4 solicitors that I spoke to, I picked the only one who wasn't demeaning or presumptive.

After they took my case, they said the situation seemed highly unusual and that as such a trivial matter, it should be resolved very quickly. The member of the Rail Fare staff that I had spoken to had marked my case as 'rude and aggressive' and had marked that Chiltern Railways should not settle out of court - 'under any circumstance'. I still am flabbergasted even to be writing this months later. I've had no trouble with the law, I'm a productive member of society, and I'm not known to be rude. argumentative, or to have any associated aggressions. The person who I spoke to was looking for someone's day to ruin - and because there are no further checks in place, he almost ruined my career.

I was incredibly fortunate in that the solicitor I had chosen personally knew the court appointed solicitor(?) who was representing Chiltern Rail, and was able to seek an out of court resolution. If it wasn't for this, there was not a single chance I would have been able to keep my job. ]

A horrendously stressful situation yes, but what's done is done and it is now in the past. Still, this cost me over £1k in fees and an OoCS. @Bigbarts, if you're in the same situation I'd assess whether you can hack a criminal record or if you're willing to pay that to fight it.

I'd probably walk away from this being extremely frustrated with the UK Rail in general, but I can't thank those who reached out with support and affirmations to get me through this. Special thanks to @WesternLancer @Fawkes Cat & @Haywain

Thanks for update, I'm pleased to hear this is now resolved, but sorry you had to pay so much to get it sorted (I assume a fair bit of that was legal fees). Best of luck in your new job, v good to hear you have been able to start that and no further problems.