TOCs not releasing cheap Advance tickets

[AdamWW]

Given pretty much everything involving travel or leisure these days is yield managed, from your Ryanair or even BA flight, car hire, hotels, theme parks, cinema tickets etc- even food delivery apps with their special offers/vouchers - it is an accepted part of life in 2024.

We live in a society that is designed to extract the maximum price for a commodity that the market can afford before it affects demand or causes wider adverse economic consequences.

Rail capacity is becoming an increasingly finite and over utilised resource at certain times/routes, and therefore pricing reflects that.

Let's not forget that even some (most) "expensive" yield managed fares still require government subsidy. Rail passengers rarely pay the true cost of their journey when considering the ticket price.

So we ought to replace fuel tax with yield management on the roads then?

If not, then why not, based on your arguments above?

We have a serious congestion problem on many roads n the UK and the government could do with more income.

Long distance travel is generally a choice, sometimes dictated by circumstance, such as family members living a distance apart because of economic factors, but usually discretionary.

It seems strange way of looking at things to me to describe anyone who dosn't spend their lives in the place they grew up as having moved for "economic factors".

Even back in 2017, you'd get consultants who just decided to drive everywhere.

And the message coming through is very clear. If anyone wants to continue to be able to travel when they need to or want to, not when some pricing algorithm decides to offer a fare they can afford, or if they can't plan their life to the minute weeks ahead of time, ditch the railway and get a car.

Is this really the way the country should be going?

Because we are never going to see more than a token amount at most of yield management on the roads because it's everyone's right to travel where and when they want in the UK just so long as they have a car to do it in.

I wonder how many people advocating full yield management on the railways are themselves reliant on them?

Is that the first sign of significant fares reform in the local travel market, with Southeastern being a test bed?

Presumably.

Let me guess - all off peak fares removed and if you want a day out in London you'd better plan it down to the exact train months in advance?

If it was so universally disliked, you wouldn't see it being rolled out to more and more sectors and to an ever increasing audience, even at traditionally premium brands.

If it were so unpopular, you'd have many organisations popping up making a key point of the fact that they don't yield manage (or words to that effect). I don't think those companies would last long.

That's really not how the world works, though, does it?

Would you argue that awful customer service must be what customers want because most companies are like that?

I know surge pricing isn't quite the same as yield management but I've seen taxi companies making a point that they don't so surge pricing.

I'd also point out that although LNER seems to pretend otherwise, there is an enormous difference between yield management when it just means that the price of something varies depending on demand, and when it means replacing a flexible ticket for a train with one where you have to specify the exact time of travel in advance, and pay an enormous penalty if you then miss that train because your bus was cancelled.

To pick the hotel example, many hotels still offer flexible bookings with yield management.

And another thought...

If all long distance travel is discretionary and shouldn't be thought of as a public service and therefore rail companies should be free to charge what they like, why don't we also let them just run the trains that make money and leave out ones that don't cover their costs? (Perhaps I shouldn't give the government ideas).

 

[Mcr Warrior]

And another thought...

If all long distance travel is discretionary and shouldn't be thought of as a public service and therefore rail companies should be free to charge what they like, why don't we also let them just run the trains that make money and leave out ones that don't cover their costs?

Interesting point! Doubt that there'd be any trains still running whatsoever in those particular circumstances.

 

[AdamWW]

Interesting point! Doubt that there'd be any trains still running whatsoever in those particular circumstances.

Well true - this is the wider argument over why to financially support rail travel - but I was thinking of ones that didn't cover their marginal costs.

 

[Titfield]

Well true - this is the wider argument over why to financially support rail travel - but I was thinking of ones that didn't cover their marginal costs.

One of the significant problems with transport operations is that the true direct operational costs of a service are low whereas the fixed costs are high. Chopping out a service (say a round trip) saves very little if it means the train crew who would have operated this service sit in the mess room still being paid.