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TPE franchise to move to OLR

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43066

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I note that TPE are hiring 'Qualified Train Drivers' in Liverpool according to the First careers portal.

Likewise GWR have a slew of vacancies for qualified applicants.

How does the industry expect to improve crew shortages if they fail to hire externally? It's just robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Most TOCs take on a mix of qualified and trainee drivers depending on needs. Qualified drivers are cheaper and quicker to get productive. TOCs act as individual profit making companies when making these decisions.

The industry as a whole probably doesn’t intend to improve shortages, as it lacks a single guiding mind, and the usual position is heavy reliance on overtime. There isn’t any sign of the GBR approach changing that, as shown with the proposal re. Sundays where they’re still outside the working week. The plan is simply to make them enforced overtime, rather than increasing numbers of drivers.
 
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Killingworth

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I've previously suggested a TPE driver might post some specific shift details to illustrate the issues. To avoid identification it may be difficult to do so.

What is abundantly clear is that staff morale is incredibly low. Having worked in organisations where we regularly claimed it had never been lower it was never long before we repeated that claim. That's life.

I'm satisfied from all I hear that TPE morale at all levels is at an incredibly low level, yet conversely I also hear that staff enjoy their jobs and desperately want to provide a good service. Drivers want to drive, not sit for hours, or even all day, without a train to drive. They want to learn new routes and retain knowledge on the ones they know.

It's not all going wrong in one place but many. The Nova 3 is a prime example. A 5 coach unit would be fine for South Pennine, 6 is too many for most services (especially now the lack of a reliable service has destroyed much of the market) and 3 too few. Noise is a factor, but we haven't seen enough in service to truly judge. They make occasional end to end forays and even more occasional trips in service. First noted on driver training at Dore in November 2021 a few weeks ago no Sheffield drivers had been trained or were expected to be. That would hack me off, especially when 18 months of traction and route knowledge that has been done at other depots is hardly being used for public service trains. Meanwhile paths are blocked out of the public timetable and reserved for more training runs every day, yet most go unused. Almost brand new rolling stock racks up miles without any revenue.

So the majority of South Pennine drivers are only able to drive 185s, trundling along at speeds well below their capacity.Now a few specific examples.

Driver A starts his last train of the day at Cleethorpes and finishes at Sheffield. He's advised that there's no driver to takeover at Sheffield so is told to detrain all passengers at Meadowhall and run ECS straight into the central roads to Sheffield. That's alright then? Passengers can get one of the stopping services from either Platforms 1 or 3 at Meadowhall up to Sheffield then catch an EMR or Northern service towards Manchester. Driver suggests to control that this is bonkers and offers to drive in service to Sheffield detrain passengers at a platform and then move into the roads. Offer declined, apparently too difficult.

Driver B faces same issue but has more time left in his day so is allowed to detrain at Sheffield. He then sets off in the normal path as ECS - and stops at Dore before returning to the central road - understood to have delayed other operators services to get back to Sheffield.

Both the above actions were to avoid leaving an out of service unit in a live platform at Sheffield. A mess for other operators, not only for TPE.

Come a Hope Valle blockade weekend and trains are running via Huddersfield. Driver C hasn't the route knowledge so is unavailable. Driver D sees he's down to work some. He points out that his route knowledge will run out before then but a week before he hasn't been given a refresher. It's highly likely that at least two cancellations will have occurred that day, unless another driver was found at very short notice. There'd probably have been a driver and guard being paid to sit around doing very little without moving any fare paying passengers.

Drivers like driving, especially longer and more interesting routes - it's what they joined up to do. Not a few have previous experience of freight. Is it surprising that TPE drivers without too many young family ties are actively looking to go back?
 
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Mcrdvr

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Given how unionised the industry is, there is no question in my mind that you all bear collective responsibility for what's been going on. Rumbling intransigence for months on end isn't resolving anything and isn't what people pay any of you for.
Parjon, ignorance is bliss eh?
 

crablab

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The industry as a whole probably doesn’t intend to improve shortages, .... The plan is simply to make them enforced overtime, rather than increasing numbers of drivers.
Unfortunately I agree with you. I don't see how this could ever be sustainable.
 

Class 170101

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Then the government took over and not everyone elected to TUPE into the new employer. They could legally just leave without working out their notice. So Lime Street alone lost three drivers overnight.
Wonder how many in total left across TPE?
 

Krokodil

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FirstGroup weren't the problem, they were effectively management contractors from 2020 onwards with the decisions (including the decision to reduce route and traction knowledge) being made by the DfT. FG likely would have been able to fix the issues if left to do it themselves. The decision to remove them is purely political, the public still perceives it as privatised even though it was just another form of OLR.
Indeed, First were actually getting to grips with the issue, under a competent MD (unlike the one a few years ago who was responsible for wrecking route cards, First are culpable for appointing that one and keeping him in post until virtually all of the senior leadership said "it's him or me". Matthew Golton will be a sore loss.

This was a political decision, against the advice from officials, and appears to purely stem from the local election drubbing.

Wonder how many in total left across TPE?
Rumour is around 20 drivers.
 

Killingworth

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Rumour is around 20 drivers.
Unintended consequences totally foreseeable to anyone with knowledge of industrial relations and TUPE legislation. May explain why the decision came so late - straight from the cock-up school of management!
 

43066

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consequences totally foreseeable to anyone with knowledge of industrial relations and TUPE legislation.

Indeed. And one could be forgiven for assuming that would certainly include any railway manager worth their salt, given the unionised nature of the industry, and franchises which change hands periodically.

Evidently they missed it, or simply didn’t care. Doesn’t that just speak volumes!?
 

Krokodil

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Indeed. And one could be forgiven for assuming that would certainly include any railway manager worth their salt, given the unionised nature of the industry, and franchises which change hands periodically.

Evidently they missed it, or simply didn’t care. Doesn’t that just speak volumes!?
We don't know the detail of the advice given by the civil servants to the minister, except that we know that they advised against using OLR in this instance. They may have warned him about TUPE. Politics mattered more.

There isn’t an ORR instruction to stop. Indeed there can’t be, as what TPE are doing is entirely in accordance with the Network Code.
Ah yes, the government telling the industry to fiddle the figures and then telling them not to once they'd been found out.
 

gimmea50anyday

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I work for TPE, Im a train Manager, Conductor, Guard or whatever fancy title is in vogue this year.

On saturday I was working a train that was due to run through to Liverpool. I had passengers on my train from the previous service, the previous service from Saltburn had also been cancelled and the following Manchester Airport train was cancelled. So I gave my punters advice that their best connection option was the tram from Vicc to Picc and specifically told them to NOT rely on train connections at York or Huddersfield. As I rolled in to York I was informed that my train would be terminated there, totally undermining my connection advice and assistance I had given to everyone since leaving Newcastle. Can you imaging how terribly frustrating this is for me?...

The only train available to get everyone on to was the following XC HST which relied on trains out of Leeds still running......

There was a points failure east of Leeds which stopped the job. Diversion via Castleford was a possibility but not for me because I don't sign the diversion. I used to, but training days have been taken out of my link because in the words of my glorious "leader of the year" area manager "training days are a unnecessary throwback to when off train safety briefs were held and were used by conductors as an easy day off" and therefore I have been unable to refresh the rout and keep it live because - and again in her words - "where a depot does not have any booked work over a given route, release will not be granted to refresh that route"

I now no longer sign anything west of Leeds nor do I sign "core traction" 185s for the very same reason posted above....

On the later trip to Newcastle I cleared Darlington just in time for a person to be hit by a train on Platform 1, but that resulted in my next working out of Newcastle to have 2 trainloads of TPE passengers as the previous service was cancelled - P Coded - plus acceptance for a cancelled LNER departure - as a result of limited track capacity and already running late due to signalling problems at Dunbar - on board. I was unable to do anything to manage that train other than maintain first class and ensure I could still despatch the train from the rear carriage which needed careful managelent because TPE will NOT allow 802s to be despatched from the rear cab, despite both GWR and LNER using rear cab despatch BY ROUTINE, because and again I qiote the leader of the year, "LNERs despatch proceedires are different because they have MK4s" - I am referring to AT300s, not IC225s. Please explain to me how despatching from the rear cab of an Azuma woumd be any different to a Paragon or a Nova 1, they are all AT300s!

Yet I cancel trains for the and giggles! I dont think so. Think some of the contributers to this forum need to see staff like me in action before trying to pin blame for this shower on the likes of me and many of my colleagues who still attempt to give a damn DESPITE the cramps I have to work with in an attempt to "deliver great service every day"

It has been shockingly bad since 2019, once the dust settled from Keolis departure from the first group. Maybe the french were doing their best at keeping worst group in check.....
 

DanNCL

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The big losers from this are the stations where TPE are the main service provider and there's either no daytime alternative/no daytime alternative prepared to help out. Stations such as Chester-le-Street, Yarm, Thirsk, Malton, Scunthorpe and the intermediates between Stalybridge and Huddersfield. Lockerbie and Reston less so as at least Avanti and XC respectively do help when asked. Nobody ever does for Chester-le-Street or Thirsk, despite the presence of frequent LNER and XC services past both. In the case of Chester-le-Street TPE are quick to dump the passengers onto LNER, as for some reason TPE seem to think it's somehow LNER's responsibility to get those people to Chester-le-Street and it's LNER's staff who end up getting people taxis when TPE abandon them at Newcastle or Durham.

It's easy to go on about Leeds - Manchester and Manchester - Liverpool as TPE's biggest markets and that may well be the case but at least there's a slower reliable alternative from Northern for those flows. There isn't for many of the stations north/east of Leeds and Doncaster, and they're the places where TPE's unreliability is the biggest problem.

I sense a freedom of information request coming on regarding the issue of other TOCs being asked to make additional stops. Either nobody wants to help TPE out, or TPE aren't actually asking other TOCs for help. Or possibly a combination of both.

In many cases it is not just part cancellations , they will cancel a full round trip for 1 member of crew missing on a circuit that might iclude 5 or 6 different crew changes . So as to avoid stranding the unit somewhere that NWR won't be too happy about like leeds or Man Vic they just cancel the trip throughout .
It may be that the staff booked to work those trains were on duty and available - however, due to an uncovered part of a job later on - the sets for those particular days haven’t even left the depot.

For example, train comes off the depot and goes A-D to D-A to A-D and back to A again in one day. On this day there are no crew “spare”. If on trip 4/4 there is no driver to take the train from C-B, what happens? There is no one available to put the train on to a depot after trip 1,2 or 3. You can’t just leave a train in a through platform at a major station, and as a result trips 1,2 and 3 all get cancelled due to a small break in the chain later on in the day - long after the crew booked to work trip 1,2 and 3 have probably booked off.
This is exactly what happens and it's why it often looks like there's staff sat around doing nothing when services are cancelled. That's because there often is staff sat around doing nothing, only the reason they're doing nothing is because TPE haven't got enough staff to cover a different part of the diagram. However I can't help notice the impression given by TPE is ever increasingly one of 'can't be bothered', with seemingly no/very little adjustment of diagrams done when other TOCs with shortages (albeit smaller shortages) such as LNER will make an effort to run as much as possible.

There'll be an element of Network Rail not wanting units stuck in certain locations such as Man Vic, but there are places units could be left without being too much of an issue and even that doesn't often happen, for example it isn't going to be anything more than a minor inconvenience if an 802 was left in Newcastle P11 for 8 hours.

Indeed, First were actually getting to grips with the issue, under a competent MD (unlike the one a few years ago who was responsible for wrecking route cards, First are culpable for appointing that one and keeping him in post until virtually all of the senior leadership said "it's him or me". Matthew Golton will be a sore loss.
I'm not so sure about Golton. He may have been better than the previous MD but the decimation of route and traction cards continued under his reign at TPE. Newcastle have now lost 185s from their traction cards which makes crew rostering even more difficult, as for Liverpool - Newcastle you now need 4 crews that all sign both the route and 802s, rather than just 4 crews that sign the route, as previously if any of the crews didn't sign 802s there's was still the option to use a 185. Which means now there's the possibility there being enough crew in the right place to run a service, but the service still can't run because there isn't any single type of traction that all of them sign. This was under Golton's leadership, not that of the previous MD.

There isn’t an ORR instruction to stop. Indeed there can’t be, as what TPE are doing is entirely in accordance with the Network Code.
It might not be formally an "instruction" but the ORR have told TPE to stop.

There was a points failure east of Leeds which stopped the job. Diversion via Castleford was a possibility but not for me because I don't sign the diversion. I used to, but training days have been taken out of my link because in the words of my glorious "leader of the year" area manager "training days are a unnecessary throwback to when off train safety briefs were held and were used by conductors as an easy day off" and therefore I have been unable to refresh the rout and keep it live because - and again in her words - "where a depot does not have any booked work over a given route, release will not be granted to refresh that route"

On the later trip to Newcastle I cleared Darlington just in time for a person to be hit by a train on Platform 1, but that resulted in my next working out of Newcastle to have 2 trainloads of TPE passengers as the previous service was cancelled - P Coded - plus acceptance for a cancelled LNER departure - as a result of limited track capacity and already running late due to signalling problems at Dunbar - on board. I was unable to do anything to manage that train other than maintain first class and ensure I could still despatch the train from the rear carriage which needed careful managelent because TPE will NOT allow 802s to be despatched from the rear cab, despite both GWR and LNER using rear cab despatch BY ROUTINE, because and again I qiote the leader of the year, "LNERs despatch proceedires are different because they have MK4s" - I am referring to AT300s, not IC225s. Please explain to me how despatching from the rear cab of an Azuma woumd be any different to a Paragon or a Nova 1, they are all AT300s!
If that's what "leader of the year" is like then I hate to imagine how bad the rest of them must be... Unless of course the title of "leader of the year" is given to the worst one.

As for her comments about Mark 4s, successfully dispatching a southbound Mk4 set from the rear cab would be quite some achievement, considering that the 91s don't have guards panels!
 

43066

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It might not be formally an "instruction" but the ORR have told TPE to stop.

You know better than @Bald Rick. That’s quite some claim and, with all due respect, I’m not entirely convinced.

I'm not so sure about Golton. He may have been better than the previous MD but the decimation of route and traction cards continued under his reign at TPE. Newcastle have now lost 185s from their traction cards which makes crew rostering even more difficult, as for Liverpool - Newcastle you now need 4 crews that all sign both the route and 802s, rather than just 4 crews that sign the route, as previously if any of the crews didn't sign 802s there's was still the option to use a 185. Which means now there's the possibility there being enough crew in the right place to run a service, but the service still can't run because there isn't any single type of traction that all of them sign. This was under Golton's leadership, not that of the previous MD.

Lots of information has been given here. I’d like to know how much of it might be accurate.

What are your credentials to make such claims? Do you work for/in the railway industry yourself? I assume you must, and at quite a senior level, to go into this level of detail?
 
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jojoseph72

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Ok so I know I’m very late to the part but can someone very kindly explain or link if already explain how TPE has gotten into this mess and why it has gotten so bad recently.
 

Energy

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Ok so I know I’m very late to the part but can someone very kindly explain or link if already explain how TPE has gotten into this mess and why it has gotten so bad recently.
TPE manage their traincrew by having them do shorter journeys with more crew changes on route. As such it takes one issue with sourcing train crew for the whole journey to have a problem, then the unit is in the wrong place which can cause further issues.

On top of that TPE have been reducing their route cards. Previously you'd need to sort crew who all sign the route and you can always send out 185 (previously everyone signed them), now you need crew who all sign both the route and traction. Now add on TPE having 3 small Nova fleets and at many depots with multiple Nova fleets, drivers will only sign 1 of the fleets depending on which route they drive.

As such one small issue such as sourcing staff or a unit being in the wrong place can quickly turn into many cancellations.
 

jojoseph72

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TPE manage their traincrew by having them do shorter journeys with more crew changes on route. As such it takes one issue with sourcing train crew for the whole journey to have a problem, then the unit is in the wrong place which can cause further issues.

On top of that TPE have been reducing their route cards. Previously you'd need to sort crew who all sign the route and you can always send out 185 (previously everyone signed them), now you need crew who all sign both the route and traction. Now add on TPE having 3 small Nova fleets and at many depots with multiple Nova fleets, drivers will only sign 1 of the fleets depending on which route they drive.

As such one small issue such as sourcing staff or a unit being in the wrong place can quickly turn into many cancellations.
Ah ok, I’m guessing that combined with (if I’m correct) an endemic issue of driver shortages and the current rail dispute = TPE falling apart?
 

irish_rail

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TPE manage their traincrew by having them do shorter journeys with more crew changes on route. As such it takes one issue with sourcing train crew for the whole journey to have a problem, then the unit is in the wrong place which can cause further issues.

On top of that TPE have been reducing their route cards. Previously you'd need to sort crew who all sign the route and you can always send out 185 (previously everyone signed them), now you need crew who all sign both the route and traction. Now add on TPE having 3 small Nova fleets and at many depots with multiple Nova fleets, drivers will only sign 1 of the fleets depending on which route they drive.

As such one small issue such as sourcing staff or a unit being in the wrong place can quickly turn into many cancellations.
And the worst thing is, other TOCs will very likely be going down the same road soon (or already are). The example of Plymouth drivers being made to lose Taunton to Bristol being one example, and the likely changes to route cards at Avanti when Crewe depot opens. I'm not convinced mistakes have been learned from, especially at First group TOCs and I can't help but feel we will see a TPE mark 2 at another TOC before long as route knowledge is whittled away. I also believe it is an DFt order and not necessarily First group at fault, so I wouldn't hold my breath that things will improve on TPE now its under government control. If TPE has achieved one thing, it has shown up the folly of reducing traincrew route knowledge for the false economy it is.
 

childwallblues

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I note that TPE are hiring 'Qualified Train Drivers' in Liverpool according to the First careers portal.

Likewise GWR have a slew of vacancies for qualified applicants.

How does the industry expect to improve crew shortages if they fail to hire externally? It's just robbing Peter to pay Paul.
I wonder if hiring in Liverpool is to fill vacancies or to increase staff?
 

muz379

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It's easy to go on about Leeds - Manchester and Manchester - Liverpool as TPE's biggest markets and that may well be the case but at least there's a slower reliable alternative from Northern for those flows. There isn't for many of the stations north/east of Leeds and Doncaster, and they're the places where TPE's unreliability is the biggest problem.
I am not disputing that the impact are greater elsewhere, indeed some parts of the network will have had huge gaps in service of any kind .

But the large numbers of TPE passengers using Nothern services Leeds-Manchester-Liverpool & Over the hope valley is having an impact on the intermediate passengers on these routes as well , with services leaving Leeds , Liverpool , Manchester or Sheffield full and then leaving passengers behind at intermediate stations as services are just too full .In some cases Northern are then having to put mitigation in place for their operation to cater for this unintended consequence of ticket acceptance .
 

Killingworth

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But the large numbers of TPE passengers using Nothern services Leeds-Manchester-Liverpool & Over the hope valley is having an impact on the intermediate passengers on these routes as well , with services leaving Leeds , Liverpool , Manchester or Sheffield full and then leaving passengers behind at intermediate stations as services are just too full .In some cases Northern are then having to put mitigation in place for their operation to cater for this unintended consequence of ticket acceptance .

Seconding Chris Jackson from Northern is a good move. He's had to arrange a lot of that mitigation. 6 coach 195s on Hope Valley last summer weekends when 3 or 4 years ago we'd have had a 2 car Pacer was bizarre! A bit OTT but made a point.
 

ainsworth74

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Yet I cancel trains for the and giggles!
At last a confession! We knew it was the case but finally a confession! :lol:
work for TPE, Im a train Manager, Conductor, Guard or whatever fancy title is in vogue this year.

On saturday I was working a train that was due to run through to Liverpool. I had passengers on my train from the previous service, the previous service from Saltburn had also been cancelled and the following Manchester Airport train was cancelled. So I gave my punters advice that their best connection option was the tram from Vicc to Picc and specifically told them to NOT rely on train connections at York or Huddersfield. As I rolled in to York I was informed that my train would be terminated there, totally undermining my connection advice and assistance I had given to everyone since leaving Newcastle. Can you imaging how terribly frustrating this is for me?...

The only train available to get everyone on to was the following XC HST which relied on trains out of Leeds still running......

There was a points failure east of Leeds which stopped the job. Diversion via Castleford was a possibility but not for me because I don't sign the diversion. I used to, but training days have been taken out of my link because in the words of my glorious "leader of the year" area manager "training days are a unnecessary throwback to when off train safety briefs were held and were used by conductors as an easy day off" and therefore I have been unable to refresh the rout and keep it live because - and again in her words - "where a depot does not have any booked work over a given route, release will not be granted to refresh that route"

I now no longer sign anything west of Leeds nor do I sign "core traction" 185s for the very same reason posted above....

On the later trip to Newcastle I cleared Darlington just in time for a person to be hit by a train on Platform 1, but that resulted in my next working out of Newcastle to have 2 trainloads of TPE passengers as the previous service was cancelled - P Coded - plus acceptance for a cancelled LNER departure - as a result of limited track capacity and already running late due to signalling problems at Dunbar - on board. I was unable to do anything to manage that train other than maintain first class and ensure I could still despatch the train from the rear carriage which needed careful managelent because TPE will NOT allow 802s to be despatched from the rear cab, despite both GWR and LNER using rear cab despatch BY ROUTINE, because and again I qiote the leader of the year, "LNERs despatch proceedires are different because they have MK4s" - I am referring to AT300s, not IC225s. Please explain to me how despatching from the rear cab of an Azuma woumd be any different to a Paragon or a Nova 1, they are all AT300s!
Thank you for this, I think this post is a very useful summary of why things go so wrong day after day on TPE and how understandably frustrating it is for staff as well as passengers. As I've said on a couple of threads now staff aren't just sat around giggling to themselves about cancelling trains and doing it for larks. Both staff on the ground and in control are trying to make the best of an absolutely terrible hand they've been dealt at a TOC like TPE. But what can you do when you have depots that don't sign at least two types of traction (it's unimaginably dumb that 185s aren't still core traction whatever flavour of Nova is most relevant to your depot/link), when route cards have been slashed (even before considering loss of diversionary routes a Newcastle guard not signing beyond Leeds is mad), when the diagrams you're working to have multiple crew changes on route making every service that bit more vulnerable all whilst your short of staff to begin with and you're in the midst of the worst industrial relations disaster (driven by the DfT), I suspect, since privatisation?

But yeah, sure, it's the staff deliberately cancelling trains off their own bat and refusing to work their time off that are problem :rolleyes:
Lots of information has been given here. I’d like to know how much of it might be accurate.

What are your credentials to make such claims? Do you work for/in the railway industry yourself? I assume you must, and at quite a senior level, to go into this level of detail?
To be fair we know that TPE drivers and guards route cards/traction knowledge has been slashed and we know that they've instituted considerably more crew changes during a service's journey so @DanNCL's point follows logically from there. Perhaps there are only three changes of crew on a Liverpool - Newcastle service or maybe there are five but the point still stands. It only needs one member of staff at one change point to not sign the traction and suddenly you're faced with having to cancel the entire service unless you can find somewhere to dump it half-way along or magic a replacement member of staff from somewhere. I'm not quite sure that being of a "senior level" in the industry is required to draw those conclusions considering what we've been told by TPE staff in this very thread! Indeed some of it is repeated only a few posts above yours...
 

gimmea50anyday

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@43066 I can vouch for @DanNCL s comments, he is spot on. In October Golton Acknowleged route knowledge was an issue, yet despite that in december I had 185s took off me stating it was no longer required as my depot is now an 802 only depot, along with the work we had between Leeds and Hiddersfield. As stated above my route card ends at Leeds. What has been posted regarding short hops multiple crew changes with 10 minute turnarounds, cutting of route and traction cards is not anecdotal, its observations by people on this forum and first hand experience from staff such as myself?
 

43066

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To be fair we know that TPE drivers and guards route cards/traction knowledge has been slashed and we know that they've instituted considerably more crew changes during a service's journey so @DanNCL's point follows logically from there. Perhaps there are only three changes of crew on a Liverpool - Newcastle service or maybe there are five but the point still stands. It only needs one member of staff at one change point to not sign the traction and suddenly you're faced with having to cancel the entire service unless you can find somewhere to dump it half-way along or magic a replacement member of staff from somewhere. I'm not quite sure that being of a "senior level" in the industry is required to draw those conclusions considering what we've been told by TPE staff in this very thread! Indeed some of it is repeated only a few posts above yours...

@43066 I can vouch for @DanNCL s comments, he is spot on. In October Golton Acknowleged route knowledge was an issue, yet despite that in december I had 185s took off me stating it was no longer required as my depot is now an 802 only depot, along with the work we had between Leeds and Hiddersfield. As stated above my route card ends at Leeds. What has been posted regarding short hops multiple crew changes with 10 minute turnarounds, cutting of route and traction cards is not anecdotal, its observations by people on this forum and first hand experience from staff such as myself?

Fair enough - in which case apologies to @DanNCL who does generally seem very well informed.
 

Krokodil

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I'm not so sure about Golton. He may have been better than the previous MD but the decimation of route and traction cards continued under his reign at TPE.
How much power was he given to change things? It sounds like every time he asked the DfT for permission to do something, the answer was 'no'.

Do you have a source for this?
Tony Miles has posted it elsewhere. He's usually reliable.

“Citation required”

even before considering loss of diversionary routes a Newcastle guard not signing beyond Leeds is mad
Particularly when you consider that there is no TPE traincrew depot at Leeds, and therefore no spare cover on site when things go wrong.
 

Bow Fell

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A consequence of the May 2018 timetable change. Network Rail, quite rightly put the foot down and said it was unacceptable for units just to be left mainline without any crew.

This is why it’s the unit diagram as well the docket that’s looked at when cancelling services.

A good example being Liverpool - Hull The traincrew docket could be covered throughout with different relief, from Liverpool - Hull but only Hull - Manchester Victoria with no driver at Manchester Victoria. Network Rail won’t allow a unit to sit mainline at Victoria so a driver is required to shunt to Manchester Victoria reversing siding or take the unit to Ardwick, bearing in mind if there is one, and if not more cancellations.
 

Bald Rick

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How much power was he given to change things? It sounds like every time he asked the DfT for permission to do something, the answer was 'no'.


Tony Miles has posted it elsewhere. He's usually reliable.




Particularly when you consider that there is no TPE traincrew depot at Leeds, and therefore no spare cover on site when things go wrong.

but the letter does not tell TPE to stop using pre cancellations.

it’s a complicated subject, but unless the network code is changed, there is nothing the ORR can actually do. And they know that.

What can be done is change how such Pre-cancellations are advised to passengers.
 

LowLevel

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but the letter does not tell TPE to stop using pre cancellations.

it’s a complicated subject, but unless the network code is changed, there is nothing the ORR can actually do. And they know that.

What can be done is change how such Pre-cancellations are advised to passengers.
The scummy practice of selling tickets to people and then just deleting the trains entirely so they don't even show as cancelled on the screens is what needs to be in the bin, and now seems to be.

I've never forgiven Northern for the staff assaults and general misery that their guards strikes generated a few years back where for example they would sell tickets until a few days before for the 2318 from Nottingham to Sheffield on a Saturday night which didn't run for months.

Then the tanked up holders of said tickets would turn up and take out their quite reasonable fury on any member of staff who happened to be nearby, cleaners, guards, drivers, dispatchers, many of whom had no idea what they were talking about with no trains showing cancelled on the board, with predictable consequences as there was sod all way of getting them out of Nottingham at that time on a Saturday.

Absolutely appalling behaviour for so called professionals within the industry to even consider using that mechanism in that manner.
 
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