TPE introduce "Last minute reservations"

[Bletchleyite]

Surely there is a sensible half way house. It would be great if you could book until say 30 minutes before a train leaves it's first station. People would quickly get used to that system and use it and I would use it all the time.

Yes, this is a very sensible use-case. For most of my uses of walk-up tickets (which are by far the most common tickets for me to use, I near enough never use Advances) I very often know which train I am likely to use for the outbound, but most likely only know which day I'll be using the return half on (I might know morning, afternoon or evening, but not much more detail than that). However, on that actual day, I usually have a much better idea. And often I'm connecting onto the long-distance train rather than boarding it straight away.

Even without the "train already moving" feature this would still be a killer app for me, and if it offered value-added services like seat selection rather than just "a seat in case I can't find a better one" I would pay a few quid for each use quite happily.

I think even the likes of this, again if easily available at least via the Web (mobile included) and an app, could make a significant inroad into the various timetabled rugby matches on offer around the network.

 

[Kite159]

A good idea in theory, if only TPE didn't run little toy trains, good luck finding your seat when the best you can do is just about squeeze on. Maybe they should convert some of the oversized first class area into standard class seating to help with the overcrowding.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I used this feature on the weekend (before then the website was up, but it didn't work for some reason). It worked well, other than the fact that there were no labels on the seats and so the occupants of the seats were rather surprised. I think that it should be possible to reserve seats in this fashion on all operators which operate 'proper' seat reservations, but equally I wouldn't object to a nominal (refundable) fee, say 50p or £1, being charged for reservations (with season ticket holders getting them at a discount), to encourage people to actually travel on their reserved service - but with the reservation being transferable to any other service for free, provided it's done before reservations for the train you're reserved onto close, or refunded if you no longer want to travel.

I'm in two minds as to whether reservations should be allowed en-route. It gives a great level of flexibility on XC, which I do really value. However, I can understand the frustration of people who don't have a reservation who are then kicked out of their seat - although, IMO, it is not justifiable to feel entitled to a seat if you haven't reserved one. I think requiring reservation before travel on shorter journeys (say, shorter than 2 hours end to end) would be OK, but for anything longer it's unworkable - e.g. requiring someone who wants a seat reservation from Birmingham to Bristol at 4pm to make a reservation before the train leaves Aberdeen at 8am!

 

[keith1879]

I'd suggest that the Euston scrum (or its more on topic Manc Picc P14 cousin) is just as likely to do that.

I have to disagree. Everyone (especially the British) understands the concept of queueing .....of putting yourself first in line (albeit - perhaps with the need to do some pushing and shoving when the doors open). Very few people are going to be understanding of a system where you are first in line , stow your baggage, sit yourself down and them some self-satisfied **** tells you that the seat you have secured is actually his/hers. Granted it appears that TP are going to use fairly clear markings for the seats that could get reserved so I suppose what will happen is that these seats will remain empty while people stand - a tremendous step forward in rail passenger comfort.

 

[keith1879]

I used this feature on the weekend (before then the website was up, but it didn't work for some reason). It worked well, other than the fact that there were no labels on the seats and so the occupants of the seats were rather surprised. I think that it should be possible to reserve seats in this fashion on all operators which operate 'proper' seat reservations, but equally I wouldn't object to a nominal (refundable) fee, say 50p or £1, being charged for reservations (with season ticket holders getting them at a discount), to encourage people to actually travel on their reserved service - but with the reservation being transferable to any other service for free, provided it's done before reservations for the train you're reserved onto close, or refunded if you no longer want to travel.

I'm in two minds as to whether reservations should be allowed en-route. It gives a great level of flexibility on XC, which I do really value. However, I can understand the frustration of people who don't have a reservation who are then kicked out of their seat - although, IMO, it is not justifiable to feel entitled to a seat if you haven't reserved one. I think requiring reservation before travel on shorter journeys (say, shorter than 2 hours end to end) would be OK, but for anything longer it's unworkable - e.g. requiring someone who wants a seat reservation from Birmingham to Bristol at 4pm to make a reservation before the train leaves Aberdeen at 8am!

I have to say that if I had been sat in an unlabelled seat and was asked to move in those circumstances I would politely but firmly say "No". During the past year I have been approached twice in a similar way and in both cases the hopeful supplicants did not have my seat reserved. (In one case they had misread the number and in the other they were travelling on the wrong date).

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have to disagree. Everyone (especially the British) understands the concept of queueing .....of putting yourself first in line (albeit - perhaps with the need to do some pushing and shoving when the doors open).

Have you ever actually used a peak-time train from Euston or Manchester Piccadilly platform 14?

There is no queueing whatsoever. It's a free-for-all - Piccadilly P14 by far worse - they even shove under your arm as you hold the handrail to disembark.

It is without a doubt the worst thing about rail travel - and I say that as someone who can use RTT, Tiger etc to get good quality information before anyone else does. Can you imagine what Old Grandma Smith must think of it, or a family with small children? The Euston scrum is a stampede - it's dangerous. As for Picc P14, I'm amazed nobody has ended up under a train as a result of it. Both of them could be solved by making it pointless to rush to the train, and everyone knowing their seat (or if there are none so you're best off choosing a different one, or again no point rushing as you're only going to stand anyway) is a very good way to do that.

 

[keith1879]

Have you ever actually used a peak-time train from Euston or Manchester Piccadilly platform 14?

Yes both frequently ....and at Leeds in the rush hour.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I have to say that if I had been sat in an unlabelled seat and was asked to move in those circumstances I would politely but firmly say "No". During the past year I have been approached twice in a similar way and in both cases the hopeful supplicants did not have my seat reserved. (In one case they had misread the number and in the other they were travelling on the wrong date).

I would, too, ask to see the reservation if none had been displayed when I sat down, but if they could indeed show a valid reservation then I would give up the seat. Ultimately, IMO it is not the reservation holder's fault if the TOC have failed to display the reservations correctly. If anything, the reservation labels/displays are for the convenience of passenger without reservations, so I don't think it's reasonable to feel an entitlement to a seat you've not reserved but that someone else has.

I would obviously complain to the TOC regardless of which side I was on, and regardless of the outcome, if this happened, but I wouldn't expect much to happen.

 

[vicki brown]

Have you ever actually used a peak-time train from Euston or Manchester Piccadilly platform 14?

There is no queueing whatsoever. It's a free-for-all - Piccadilly P14 by far worse - they even shove under your arm as you hold the handrail to disembark.

It is without a doubt the worst thing about rail travel - and I say that as someone who can use RTT, Tiger etc to get good quality information before anyone else does. Can you imagine what Old Grandma Smith must think of it, or a family with small children? The Euston scrum is a stampede - it's dangerous. As for Picc P14, I'm amazed nobody has ended up under a train as a result of it. Both of them could be solved by making it pointless to rush to the train, and everyone knowing their seat (or if there are none so you're best off choosing a different one, or again no point rushing as you're only going to stand anyway) is a very good way to do that.

Totally agree, I don't think I've ever felt more unsafe when using the railway than I have using the through platforms at man. Pic. Something new has to be tried or there could be an accident.

 

[modernrail]

Spot on, I've always thought being able to reserve a seat on a train while it's en-route is just asking for trouble.

This whole thing would be far more useful for bicycles, since they've made bike reservations mandatory now. If you're using the train for the return portion of your ride chances are you won't have a clue which service you'll be gettting until close to time.

Very true indeed re bikes!

 

[MDB1images]

Reservation labels are now on all Class 350's and crews can get/carry spares if they are missing for any reason.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Totally agree, I don't think I've ever felt more unsafe when using the railway than I have using the through platforms at man. Pic. Something new has to be tried or there could be an accident.

I remembered it being bad, but with the old TPEs from P1/2 using it it was awful at 1930 ish. I hate to think what it's like at 1730. Us Euston commuters don't know we're born in comparison.

 

[Esker-pades]

A good idea in theory, if only TPE didn't run little toy trains, good luck finding your seat when the best you can do is just about squeeze on. Maybe they should convert some of the oversized first class area into standard class seating to help with the overcrowding.

4 car Manchester to Scotland has never really been a good idea, especially with the quite heavy "local" loadings (Edinburgh to Lockerbie for example).

But, the loadings are quite variable: I was surprised at how empty the 08:16 departure from Haymarket was recently. I had a table all to myself the whole way to Preston. An 8 car would have been absolute overkill. But, it goes on to form the 12:10 from Manchester. One could have attatching moves part way through the day, but that complicates things. The new IC stock will be nice. Hopefully.

 

[Bletchleyite]

One could have attatching moves part way through the day, but that complicates things.

It does, but the South East TOCs seem to cope on networks with far less slack than the north WCML. That said, I think I'd just run 8-car all day and chuck out some very attractively priced Advances on the quieter trains.

 

[Esker-pades]

It does, but the South East TOCs seem to cope on networks with far less slack than the north WCML. That said, I think I'd just run 8-car all day and chuck out some very attractively priced Advances on the quieter trains.

Manchester Airport is often cited as being far too small for the number of trains it deals with which is probably where the majority of joining/splitting moves would take.

 

[whhistle]

Nothing to stop me moving that little card and telling the person trying to claim it they are wrong?
With enough confidence, I bet you'd be able to convince them YOU reserved it and there must be an error in the system, and so you're not moving.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Nothing to stop me moving that little card and telling the person trying to claim it they are wrong?
With enough confidence, I bet you'd be able to convince them YOU reserved it and there must be an error in the system, and so you're not moving.

If there is a reservation dispute, the most sensible first thing to do is to ask them to produce their reservation, at the same time producing yours to them. Mostly when I've had to do this it's them that was in the wrong seat. 99% of the time it involves them thinking "seat 45A" in another coach means Coach A, Seat 45, which is mine I tell you (Maybe I should launch a website about that? )

If they failed to do so and still didn't move, time to get the guard.

I can see people claiming there was no card, though with reservations becoming more commonplace TOCs seem to be shifting from "if they weren't placed they don't exist" to "they apply regardless".

 

[MDB1images]

Nothing to stop me moving that little card and telling the person trying to claim it they are wrong?
With enough confidence, I bet you'd be able to convince them YOU reserved it and there must be an error in the system, and so you're not moving.

The purple seat reservations stay on the train all day as it's the same seats available for late reservation in Standard Coach B and the same seat in 1st Class Coach C on every journey.

In terms of any arguments its the same as any other seat dispute, it'll come down to who has proof of any seat reservation!

 

[Starmill]

IMO, it is not justifiable to feel entitled to a seat if you haven't reserved one.

After the point at which you've boarded the train and sat in a clearly unreserved seat, I think it is. And I think you will find next to no support for the position that anyone should move in that circumstance. If there are no other vacant seats on the train, I most certainly wouldn't be moving. The usual caveats apply, and this is a key reason I always try to avoid sitting in the priority seats, so that they're available for people who have more of a need than me to sit in.

As an aside I'm asked to move on a significant proportion of my journeys on TransPennine Express. It almost always transpires that the person is either in the wrong coach, on the wrong train, or has assumed incorrectly that following the cancellation of their train, the company will honour their reservation on a different one.

I have also been asked to move from someone's 'reserved seat' on a Northern train from York to Preston and on West Midlands Trains from Nuneaton to London Euston. Both applicants for the seat I was occupying refused to believe my explanation that the trains didn't have reserved seats, and went off in a huff.

 

[route101]

4 car Manchester to Scotland has never really been a good idea, especially with the quite heavy "local" loadings (Edinburgh to Lockerbie for example).

But, the loadings are quite variable: I was surprised at how empty the 08:16 departure from Haymarket was recently. I had a table all to myself the whole way to Preston. An 8 car would have been absolute overkill. But, it goes on to form the 12:10 from Manchester. One could have attatching moves part way through the day, but that complicates things. The new IC stock will be nice. Hopefully.

Yeah , the 1715 from Manchester p14 always a nightmare .Even if you have reservation everyone piles on and you cant get to your seat ! Even thought of going to the airport and getting on the train there . Now i just get a train from Manchester to Preston and pick up a Virgin to Glasgow . Should really be full size intercity trains .

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yeah , the 1715 from Manchester p14 always a nightmare .Even if you have reservation everyone piles on and you cant get to your seat ! Even thought of going to the airport and getting on the train there . Now i just get a train from Manchester to Preston and pick up a Virgin to Glasgow . Should really be full size intercity trains .

I do fear that the new 5-car units will be insufficient too. Something like a 9-car Pendolino is really needed, I reckon. Or perhaps order more of the 5-car units and run 10 cars and split/join each hour for Glasgow and Edinburgh.

 

[Jozhua]

I do fear that the new 5-car units will be insufficient too. Something like a 9-car Pendolino is really needed, I reckon. Or perhaps order more of the 5-car units and run 10 cars and split/join each hour for Glasgow and Edinburgh.

Or bring some of the 185's back to supplement the fleet

 

[Bletchleyite]

Or bring some of the 185's back to supplement the fleet

I can't really support DMUs under the wires, but maybe the 350s should be retained and LNR either retain some 350/2s or order more Aventras instead.

 

[VT 390]

I do fear that the new 5-car units will be insufficient too. Something like a 9-car Pendolino is really needed, I reckon. Or perhaps order more of the 5-car units and run 10 cars and split/join each hour for Glasgow and Edinburgh.

Once HS2 opens would there be enough 390's spare to operate Manchester to Scotland services?

 

[Ianigsy]

It'd be nice if TPE could actually place the reservations which people have actually booked...

I very rarely travel TPE without a reservation and still found myself standing from Manchester to Leeds last year.

 

[hawk1911]

Just used this, for the first time, on the 10:35 from Manchester Piccadilly (Newcastle service), as my incoming train was late and, therefore, I had missed my planned connecting service.

Found the system easy to use, selected my seat and boarded a very full train. I had to get someone to move from my seat but, luckily, the adjoining seat was free for them.

The only problem seemed to be, as I watched, that people were taking the seat reservation cards; as I type only 1 of the 6 'May be reserved' cards is still in place.

 

[Robert Mann]

Or bring some of the 185's back to supplement the fleet

I was under the impression that they were retaining at least half of the current 185 fleet anyway.

Regarding the new trains being just 5 coaches, isn't it possible that might run them in double formations for services to Scotland like they currently do with the 350s?