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TPE liverpool to cleethorpes via CLC
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Jorge Da Silva
Established Member
Should come into force in the December 2022 timetable change and from May 2022 the Manchester to Cleethorpes service will start using Class 68s and Mark 5A carriages which will eventually be used on the replacement service from December 2022 (Liverpool to Cleethorpes).
The timetable is fairly obvious. If you add the times of the Northern Liverpool to Manchester Airport service and the TPE Manchester Piccadilly to Cleethorpes service they broadly align at Piccadilly on the opposite side of the hour to the Nottingham / Norwich service.
Postings at the end of November in the 68 diagrams thread suggested two 68 diagrams from May (Manchester to Cleethorpes) increasing to six in December - https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-no-images-please.190693/page-34#post-5425576
Whistler40145
Established Member
Are there any changes to the drivers involved, training on 68s versus 185s?
Sheffield crew will need training.
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Whistler40145
Established Member
They work Sheffield to Cleethorpes section?
See https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/different-driver-depot-route-and-traction-cards.205085/ for what drivers work.
Whistler40145
Established Member
Thanks
Sheffield and Cleethorpes are learning 68s (and Oxford Road), Manchester are learning the CLC. Liverpool will be relearning/refreshing the CLC though I don't think the plan currently involves them working any 68s.
jonnyfan
Member
Most days I've seen empty TPE 185s running trips between Lime Street and Oxford Road via Warrington Central all day, presumably for driver training?
TPE ran via the CLC route until May 2018; which crews would have had route knowledge then, just Liverpool?
Manchester Piccadilly (Hull and Scarborough links) according to the guide above.
Not sure where you get Hull link from? I'm not aware of any plan for them to learn the CLC.
Liverpool, Manchester, York and Scarborough, I believe also Newcastle(?) used to sign the CLC. All have lost it, as for years there were no (or virtually no) services.
Yes it’s Piccadilly drivers And Piccadilly guards (but the guards are currently being utilised elsewhere at the moment).
Just Scarborough link
Mostly Class 68 and MK5A’s with a few Class 185’s in 6 car formation
Needs to be corrected by @craigybagel then to reflect that in the relevant thread.
Philip
On Moderation
Will all 185s eventually be removed from the South TPE route once the full allocation of 68 and coaches is up and running on the route?
Kite159
Veteran Member
What a great idea it is to use the end coach Mk5s for Platforms 13 & 14 at Manchester Piccadilly when the train empties out before refilling, rather than the 185s with the large central doors.
It's going to end in tears and the plan to run Cleethorpes - Liverpool will be binned by May 2023 with the trains from Cleethorpes terminating at Piccadilly, and probably the only semifast via Warrington Central will end up being the EMR services when they can be bothered to run. At least that way if they are hopelessly late it won't delay the stopper from Oxford Road
It’s not the issue you think it is.
Class 156’s, 158’s, 175’s, 397’s and MK4 coaches (in future) currently also use platforms 13 and 14.
craigybagel
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Thanks, duly edited
Off topic, but MKIVs aren't likely to be using Platforms 13 & 14.
Not unless the 68s are taken off the Scarborough route.
There are nominally 12 sets available for traffic each day; currently 4 are used on the Scarborough route but that was due to increase to 5 in the December TT change and further from the May TT.
So with the Liverpool-Cleethorpes route requiring 8 circuits, as you can see, it's simply not possible to diagram all services as 68s (and that's assuming you can scrape together 12 working sets each day).
Then there's also the matter of stabling - currently you couldn't have 12 sets out in traffic even if you had all the traincrew in the world, simply because of a lack of stabling locations.
At the very least you'd need to upgrade the facilities at Cleethorpes unless you wanted to sacrifice the first and late trains to go - bearing in mind the line officially closes and reopens each night in lockstep with the timings of those services, so you couldn't run an ECS in from anywhere. Even that probably wouldn't suffice on its own, as realistically you'd have a maximum of about 3 sets there.
I could be misreading above but one (or more) TPE depots continued to sign via Warrington Central the full time they have been minus a passenger service on the CLC. I'm unsure which but there certainly have been plenty of diverted trains reversing at Oxford Road and coming round the chord to Victoria to carry on the booked service.
Not sure about 'plenty' but it has occurred occasionally during disruption and engineering works (though in the latter case, only in unusual circumstances and with a very low frequency).
In all cases, such services have required one of the handful of Liverpool drivers who retain the CLC. The training programme currently underway will encompass them regaining their lost knowledge.
D365
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Crikey. 68s in Shefffield will be fun.
There already is an hourly stopper via the Chat Moss. Or are you thinking of something else?
Whistler40145
Established Member
Presumably this is the Liverpool Lime Street to Crewe via Manchester Piccadilly service?
Yes. On Sundays, and at the start and end of service, it runs between Liverpool and Wilmslow or Manchester Airport.
Greybeard33
Established Member
From December it becomes Lime Street to Manchester Airport via Newton le Willows. There will be a separate service from Piccadilly to Crewe via the Airport, on the opposite side of the hour.
317 forever
Established Member
So, things will settle down at that point. It still seems to mean a reduction in trains from Piccadilly to the Airport.
Ironically, management of Warrington Central will have moved from TransPennine to Northern, but the Northern fast services will now be replaced by TransPennine!
mcnw35282
Member
Was driving through Orford in Warrington last week, and I noticed a TPE 185 speeding past on an overbridge...thought it was odd, but I guess this explains it.
Just for clarity, are LIV-MIA via WAC trains being withdrawn in December when the chat moss service is curtailed to MIA? And also, will the chat moss trains skip the intermediate stations between Piccadilly and the airport, or continue to stop?
jonnyfan
Member
That's correct, the Northern LIV-MIA via WAC is withdrawn, with TPE extending their Cleethorpes to Piccadilly service through to Lime Street via Warrington Central.
The Chat Moss stopper will call at all intermediate stops between Piccadilly and MIA, giving those stations a proper 2tph stopping service with the Piccadilly to Crewe via MIA service aswell.
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