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TPE Nova 3 (Class 68 + Mk5s) updates and withdrawal from service

TT-ONR-NRN

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I wouldn't be too sure about that - see this article in Modern Railways...

If the DfT/Chiltern/ROSCO are thinking about prolonging the running of locomotive-hauled services on the Chiltern Main Line, honestly more fool them. Westminster are already unhappy with them, as are the locals, and there are perfectly suitable other DMUs available which'll be far less polluting and noisy. Although discussing this should probably be done elsewhere.

Have any MK5 rakes gone off lease yet, does anyone know?
 
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Peter Sarf

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If the DfT/Chiltern/ROSCO are thinking about prolonging the running of locomotive-hauled services on the Chiltern Main Line, honestly more fool them. Westminster are already unhappy with them, as are the locals, and there are perfectly suitable other DMUs available which'll be far less polluting and noisy. Although discussing this should probably be done elsewhere.

Have any MK5 rakes gone off lease yet, does anyone know?
Continuing use of 68s at Chiltern seems more likely if the Class 68 modifications (quieter exhaust system) are effective. But I have not seen much news on that.

I think all the Mk5 coaches finish their lease at TPE in June 2024. But TPE are standing them down earlier than that in December.
 

61653 HTAFC

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If the DfT/Chiltern/ROSCO are thinking about prolonging the running of locomotive-hauled services on the Chiltern Main Line, honestly more fool them. Westminster are already unhappy with them, as are the locals, and there are perfectly suitable other DMUs available which'll be far less polluting and noisy. Although discussing this should probably be done elsewhere.

Have any MK5 rakes gone off lease yet, does anyone know?
What are these less-polluting DMUs that are or will be available?

The 68s may be noisy, but according to "in the know" posters on here (based on past posts) they're cleaner emissions wise than the Turbostars that make up most of Chiltern's fleet, and I'd expect the 175s to be similar to the 168/170s.
 

sjpowermac

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TPE Class 68s:
Start of Day position 22.10.2023
Mk5A sets remain leased to TPE
All locos remain subleased to TPE
*indicates locos that have recently worked for DRS.

*68019 Crewe Gresty Bridge*
*68020 Crewe Basford Hall*
68021/TP10 Longsight
*68022 Carlisle Kingmoor*
68023/TP09 Scarborough TMD
68024 Crewe Gresty Bridge
68025 Stoke Marcroft Engineering
68026/TP05 Scarborough
68027/TP08 Longsight
68028 Crewe Gresty Bridge
68029/TP12 Scarborough TMD
68030 Crewe Gresty Bridge
*68031 Crewe Gresty Bridge*
68032/TP13 Longsight

Sets without a loco
Longsight
TP04 (arrived 25.09.2023)

Crewe South Yard
TP02 (arrived 02.10.2023)
TP03 (arrived 13.10.2023)
TP06 (arrived 18.10.2023)
TP07 (arrived 11.10.2023)
TP11 (arrived 02.09.2023)

Wolverton Works
TP01 (arrived 03.10.2023)
 

Richard Scott

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What are these less-polluting DMUs that are or will be available?

The 68s may be noisy, but according to "in the know" posters on here (based on past posts) they're cleaner emissions wise than the Turbostars that make up most of Chiltern's fleet, and I'd expect the 175s to be similar to the 168/170s.
68s are stage 3A emissions compliant, which I expect is far better than majority of DMUs in Chiltern's fleet. Just the noise issue is a problem (for some people!!).
 

Peter Sarf

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TPE Class 68s:
Start of Day position 22.10.2023
Mk5A sets remain leased to TPE
All locos remain subleased to TPE
*indicates locos that have recently worked for DRS.

*68019 Crewe Gresty Bridge*
*68020 Crewe Basford Hall*
68021/TP10 Longsight
*68022 Carlisle Kingmoor*
68023/TP09 Scarborough TMD
68024 Crewe Gresty Bridge
68025 Stoke Marcroft Engineering
68026/TP05 Scarborough
68027/TP08 Longsight
68028 Crewe Gresty Bridge
68029/TP12 Scarborough TMD
68030 Crewe Gresty Bridge
*68031 Crewe Gresty Bridge*
68032/TP13 Longsight

Sets without a loco
Longsight
TP04 (arrived 25.09.2023)

Crewe South Yard
TP02 (arrived 02.10.2023)
TP03 (arrived 13.10.2023)
TP06 (arrived 18.10.2023)
TP07 (arrived 11.10.2023)
TP11 (arrived 02.09.2023)

Wolverton Works
TP01 (arrived 03.10.2023)
Thanks for the dates, very interesting. I had not appreciated how recently the sets that are there now had moved to Crew South Yard.

I assume there have been sets there before ?.

Does that mean a bit of set rotation still happens between Longsight and Crew South Yard ?.

Does anyone know how visible the sets are in Crew South Yard ?.
A feature, not a bug!

Anyway, as this isn't the "no pictures please" thread, here's number 29 at York yesterday...
View attachment 145206

Not sure why it is upside down!
A nice big fat bug :E.
Perhaps it's getting prepared for imminent export to Australia once TPE have finished with it? :lol:
You beat me to it :p.
When you rotate an image it just adds metadata to say it has been rotated, it doesn't change the actual image. As this is a fairly recent thing, some software doesn't support it.
Is an answer to edit the picture more so that it gets saved differently. A bit like printing something (e.g. a word doc) as a PDF loses all the original formatting ?.
 

50032

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Thanks for the dates, very interesting. I had not appreciated how recently the sets that are there now had moved to Crew South Yard.

I assume there have been sets there before ?.

Does that mean a bit of set rotation still happens between Longsight and Crew South Yard ?.
Longsight only has room for seven sets at any one time, so rotation happens frequently.
 

12LDA28C

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If the DfT/Chiltern/ROSCO are thinking about prolonging the running of locomotive-hauled services on the Chiltern Main Line, honestly more fool them. Westminster are already unhappy with them, as are the locals, and there are perfectly suitable other DMUs available which'll be far less polluting and noisy. Although discussing this should probably be done elsewhere.

Have any MK5 rakes gone off lease yet, does anyone know?

Typical anti-locomotive / anti-Class 68 / anti-LHCS comment as usual. The article also mentions a modification being developed to reduce noise from the Class 68s which would presumably go some way towards placating local residents and other stakeholders. What other 'perfectly suitable' DMUs are available? 175s? Hardly the best unit in the world are they...
 

Richard Scott

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Typical anti-locomotive / anti-Class 68 / anti-LHCS comment as usual. The article also mentions a modification being developed to reduce noise from the Class 68s which would presumably go some way towards placating local residents and other stakeholders. What other 'perfectly suitable' DMUs are available? 175s? Hardly the best unit in the world are they...
In reality the 68 plus 5 coaches probably requires less fuel than equivalent DMU.
 

Peter Sarf

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Longsight only has room for seven sets at any one time, so rotation happens frequently.
That is what I was earlier understanding. How long before a rotation happens ? - hopefully TP07 as it did briefly make it to Longsight a little while ago iirc.
And if the locos were modified to run on HVO as per Chiltern's current 68 fleet, emissions would be drastically reduced.
Even better than that - I read the 68s require no modification to run on HVO. The supporting depot needs separate fuel tanks for holding the HVO but obviously Chiltern already have those for the 68s.

Its the noise that will be the obvious thing to alleviate (in the eyes of non-enthusiasts). Keep fingers crossed the work at Stoke Marcroft is to do with exhaust noise and is successful.

AND
@sjpowermac do you know the arrival dates for the sets currently working out of Longsight ?.
Indeed a bit more history going back would be interesting as well, and feed my obsession for TP07 !.
 

12LDA28C

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Even better than that - I read the 68s require no modification to run on HVO.

Indeed, although it should be noted that HVO is rather more expensive than standard diesel which might explain some operators' reluctance to use it, despite the obvious environmental benefits.
 

Peter Sarf

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Indeed, although it should be noted that HVO is rather more expensive than standard diesel which might explain some operators' reluctance to use it, despite the obvious environmental benefits.
Your right, it has to bring benefits to outweigh the cost.
Also I should imagine there is only so much HVO available assuming the amount of chips we eat is not sufficient to give many ICEs the required motion lotion.
 

43 302

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Its the noise that will be the obvious thing to alleviate (in the eyes of non-enthusiasts). Keep fingers crossed the work at Stoke Marcroft is to do with exhaust noise and is successful
What work at Stoke Marcroft? They go there all the time.
 

Peter Sarf

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What work at Stoke Marcroft? They go there all the time.
Its a bit of speculation / deduction / wishful-thinking on the part of people. But there is supposed to be work looking at reducing the noise of 68s - Modern Railways said so (cannot remember the exact article but it was referred to a few pages ago).
 

Russel

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Lichfield
Apologies, this has probably been asked already, but is the date the 68 sets are to be removed from daily TPE known yet?

Also, I can see plenty of diagram information in this thread, are the 68 diagrams fairly stable or does it change daily?

Just trying to plan a trip for mid November to get one last trip in.

Thanks.
 

170UTD

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Apologies, this has probably been asked already, but is the date the 68 sets are to be removed from daily TPE known yet?

Also, I can see plenty of diagram information in this thread, are the 68 diagrams fairly stable or does it change daily?

Just trying to plan a trip for mid November to get one last trip in.

Thanks.
It'll be the December timetable change
 

BoroAndy

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If the 68s and mk5as were always only leased until 2024, then what is happening was almost what was planned anyway, true or false? The Scarborough TMD must be aimed at other units, 185s/802s, T or F? I have heard they have just taken on at least one new worker. Can 185s be worked on at night quietly?
 

JonathanH

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If the 68s and mk5as were always only leased until 2024, then what is happening was almost what was planned anyway, true or false?
It is common to lease units to the end of a planned franchise then renew. Indeed, that is all that a franchise could generally do as they couldn't easily bind the lease onto the next period. It is just that the last renewal was short.

I think the original lease was to 31 March 2023, in line with the franchise in which they were procured.
 

sjpowermac

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If the 68s and mk5as were always only leased until 2024, then what is happening was almost what was planned anyway, true or false? The Scarborough TMD must be aimed at other units, 185s/802s, T or F? I have heard they have just taken on at least one new worker. Can 185s be worked on at night quietly?
Earlier this year the lease on Mk5A was extended to 28.05.2024

The shore supply at Scarborough TMD is now back in operation. Locos have ETS switched off to/from the depot. A bit nonplussed really what the difference is between maintaining a Nova 3 set overnight there compared with a Class 185.

It all certainly has the appearance of being planned for quite some time, or at least, something that was on the agenda.
 
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68011

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Keep fingers crossed the work at Stoke Marcroft is to do with exhaust noise and is successful.
It's been there for a some other work, certainly nothing to do with exhaust noise.

For the record 025 is with set TP02 working 5Q32 Crewe BH to Longsight today.
 
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Bob figgis

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A Class 68 hauling unpowered stock didn't sound any different to a Class 195 unit with underfloor engines...? Yet you enjoyed the CAT power unit sound? I'm confused. the ride of the coaches and the rattles the bogies make. The one difference i did pick up on and enjoyed was the sound of the loco.
The rattles of the 195 and of the Mk5 coaches were exactly the same, the difference was the engine sound. The 68 made a better noise, although it didn’t drowned out the noise from the bogies.
 

Peter Sarf

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It's been there for a some other work, certainly nothing to do with exhaust noise.

For the record 025 is with set TP02 working 5Q32 Crewe BH to Longsight today.
Thanks for that, do you know which set will be heading the other way (Longsight to Crewe) ?.

Mind - if its from Crewe BH then is it loco only ?. I thought the Mk5s were in Crewe South Yard (prefer them to be BH yard tbh) ?.

EDIT - 5Q32 is actually from Crewe South Yard.
 
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D7666

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Its a bit of speculation / deduction / wishful-thinking on the part of people. But there is supposed to be work looking at reducing the noise of 68s - Modern Railways said so (cannot remember the exact article but it was referred to a few pages ago).
Allegedly there is a "empty box" within a "hole" downstream of the 68s engine exhaust ports with enough space for some sort of silencer.

Almost sounds (excuse the pun) as if space for a silencer was left there but the device omitted for some reason ?

I could suggest a reason ??? 68s are really 'universal' locos and maybe spec'ed to give as much hp as possible. Silencing - all silencing no matter what it is - exerts a back pressure on the cylinders and reduces power output. If your power rating is 3000 hp in your spotting book, that value is /after/ the effect of silencing has been taken into account.

The only loss value I know of is with the Soviet M62 type locomotives where it costs around 50 hp on a nominal 2000 hp diesel engine. (And those things are deafening without silencers).

It might be - and I am speculating here - 68s could be fitted with some form of silencer - but at a hp cost - given that they are nominally 3750 hp to lose even 100 hp would hardly be missed on 5 coach Mk5 passenger timings. That 100 hp would be a big loss at the top end of heavy freight working, but not for this type passenger work.

The other key to this is the significant numbers of DMU that could be cascaded from Chiltern to other TOC; 168/1 168/2 168/3 might be non standard cabs Turbostars but nonetheless they are Turbostars and would be welcomed by other TOC.
 

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