TPEx CLC Sunday

[sjm77]

We all know about the problems at TPEx, and understand the reasons to various degrees. However what concern me is that on Sundays they only ever operate a 2 hourly Lime Street - Oxofrd road shuttle over the CLC Warrington Central route. This is nothing to do with engineering works as EM run their normal Liverpool - Sheffield and onwards vis the exact same route. However the TPEx online timetable clearly shows an hourly through service from Lime Street to Cleethorpes.

Loading...

timetables.tpexpress.co.uk

Is it correct to have an online timetable that you never deliver and have no intention of? What is the difference between this and internet fraud/scam?

Should the online timetabe me adjusted to what they actually intend to deliver every Sunday?

 

[The Planner]

We all know about the problems at TPEx, and understand the reasons to various degrees. However what concern me is that on Sundays they only ever operate a 2 hourly Lime Street - Oxofrd road shuttle over the CLC Warrington Central route. This is nothing to do with engineering works as EM run their normal Liverpool - Sheffield and onwards vis the exact same route. However the TPEx online timetable clearly shows an hourly through service from Lime Street to Cleethorpes.

Loading...

timetables.tpexpress.co.uk

Is it correct to have an online timetable that you never deliver and have no intention of? What is the difference between this and internet fraud/scam?

Should the online timetabe me adjusted to what they actually intend to deliver every Sunday?

Does it show the hourly timetable in journey planners? I am assuming that is their base timetable on that link, so its not going to show alterations. Fraud is a bit tinfoil hat.

 

[Adam Evans]

I don't understand the logic behind their Sunday timetable on the South route. On Sundays TPE are currently running two-hourly, semi-fast Liverpool - Oxford Road shuttles along the CLC. However they are also running from Piccadilly to Cleethorpes which are timed to leave shortly after the CLC shuttle arrives at MCO and thus those passengers can't make the connection in time. They've split the service up and don't run between Oxford Road and Piccadilly. Anyone know the logic behind this given that they run a full Liverpool to Cleethorpes service on every other day of the week?

 

[SuperNova]

Does it show the hourly timetable in journey planners? I am assuming that is their base timetable on that link, so its not going to show alterations. Fraud is a bit tinfoil hat.

A bit tinfoil hat is an understatement.

It’s readily available information- RDW pulled by RMT members nearly 18 months ago. Reduced service on all routes.

 

[sjm77]

A bit tinfoil hat is an understatement.

It’s readily available information- RDW pulled by RMT members nearly 18 months ago. Reduced service on all routes.

Yes, we all know this I think. However does not running between Oxford Road and Piccadilly vastly reduce the number of drivers required? I cannot believe it does!

 

[Starmill]

A bit tinfoil hat is an understatement.

It’s readily available information- RDW pulled by RMT members nearly 18 months ago. Reduced service on all routes.

Well I guess, "readily available" to whom? Train enthusiasts and staff, perhaps, but the general public?

However, the website's front page is silent on Sunday alterations. There's lots of information about RMT strike action, Aslef industrial action short of a strike, and changes for engineering works, but those aren't relevant here.

If you press "Travel Updates" then "Temporary Timetable Updates" you find this information:

RMT union strike action 20, 22 and 29 July.Find out more

TEMPORARY TIMETABLE AMENDMENTS​

What’s happening?​

Due to the ongoing impact of higher-than-normal sickness levels and a number of other issues including a training backlog as a direct result of Covid, it is necessary to make amendments to some services in advance to ensure the majority of the timetable operates efficiently.

Usually, we will make these changes the day before to give customers as much notice as possible. If there is a significant change to the normal timetable, we will try to do this several days before.

Some TPE services may still face ‘on-the-day’ challenges, resulting in short-notice cancellations or service amendments made on a day-to-day basis. We are sorry for any disruption that this may cause to journeys in the coming days and ask you to allow additional time for travel and to check carefully – up to the last minute – for any changes to train times.

Timetables | Download timetables | TransPennine Express

View timetables for all TransPennine Express services and stations on the network. Download train timetables now.

www.tpexpress.co.uk

So that talks about sickness absence and uncompleted training. Nothing about Sundays and nothing about "RDW". So I ask you where exactly is this information "readily available"?

 

[Kite159]

Yes, we all know this I think. However does not running between Oxford Road and Piccadilly vastly reduce the number of drivers required? I cannot believe it does!

Probably easier to turn the unit round at Oxford Road as it can sit on P3 (or even P1) with the other trains using the other platforms.

Only really affects passengers for Piccadilly, those trains have a large turnover of passengers in Manchester

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

The slight issue at Manchester Piccadilly is that the terminal platforms face the wrong direction and Mayfield turnback loop is used by other services.

 

[RHolmes]

Yes, we all know this I think. However does not running between Oxford Road and Piccadilly vastly reduce the number of drivers required? I cannot believe it does!

It’s not to reduce the number of the drivers (who have Sundays in the working week) it’s to reduce the number of Guards (who have Sundays as compulsory overtime).

The increase in the number of Sunday services that we have seen over the last few weeks is due to changes to the guard T&C’s in regards to payments for RDW, Sunday spare turns (during periods of engineering work) and demand of guards volunteering for overtime on Sundays now the dispute is (mostly) settled.

 

[Parjon]

A bit tinfoil hat is an understatement.

It’s readily available information- RDW pulled by RMT members nearly 18 months ago. Reduced service on all routes.

Information may be somehow available, somewhere, including the P code cancellations. But that doesn't make it "tin foil hat" to wonder who has been paid, and for what, versus what has actually been delivered in clear breach of what is expected.

I feel it might be a worthwhile exercise in sending forensic accountants in to TPE and examining everything, including any bonuses paid and hiring/firing (or lack of firing) decisions from the past two to three years.

 

[driverd]

I think there's possibly hyperbole in both directions here. The OP does have a point. If you apply for broadband that promises to deliver xMBpS, but that isn't what you get, you'd have the right (in many cases) to a full refund. Equally, if the company advertised this, but had no ability to deliver it, it would likely draw the attention of which/Martin Lewis/(eventually) trading standards - as it would be tangible false advertising, drawing people in to use a service that the advertiser has no ability or intention of delivering.

Now, as far as trains go, there is always the usual caveat about checking for alterations etc. A published timetable is not, as far as NRCoC are concerned, any less valid than a journey planner and so, may form the basis of your contract with the operator when you book your ticket (unless there has been a recent-ish update to the conditions of carriage?). This situation is further complicated when, as is pointed out, the website makes it difficult to access service alteration information.

I'd say there's a possibility that it violates some consumer rights? I guess the easiest way to get an answer would be to raise the issue with citizens advice or trading standards - see if they believe you have a case?