Tracking Data

[Ken H]

I thought it was a requirement for all stage carriage bus companies to send real time tracking data o the national database from this year.
So how come some are still not doing this?
North Yorkshire County Council not showing tracking data on their service buses, of which they run quite a few

 

[Man of Kent]

The Bus Open Data Regulations do not apply to section 19 or 22 operators. I understand NYCC operates under one of these and no longer has a PSV operating licence.

 

[mic]

I thought it was a requirement for all stage carriage bus companies to send real time tracking data o the national database from this year.
So how come some are still not doing this?
North Yorkshire County Council not showing tracking data on their service buses, of which they run quite a few

First Greater Manchester not showing on bustimes either fleet numbers are there but no data

 

[DelphDonkey]

I thought it was a requirement for all stage carriage bus companies to send real time tracking data o the national database from this year.
So how come some are still not doing this?
North Yorkshire County Council not showing tracking data on their service buses, of which they run quite a few

Hahahaha. The Bus Open Data project is a shambles. Never mind tracking, I'd be happy if the timetables were there! Go here https://data.bus-data.dft.gov.uk/search/ and see for yourself what's missing ...

 

[Megafuss]

Timetable data from 31st Dec 20
Location data Basic fare info yesterday (7 Jan)
Punctuality data by 31st March 22
Detailed fare data 7th Jan 23

 

[carlberry]

First Greater Manchester not showing on bustimes either fleet numbers are there but no data

That might be an issue with bustimes.

The Bus Open Data Regulations do not apply to section 19 or 22 operators. I understand NYCC operates under one of these and no longer has a PSV operating licence.

So you can track the more frequent routes where it's not a major issue if you have to wait for the next one, but not the once a day or once a week services that are more usually operated under s19/22!

 

[markymark2000]

There is a reason as to why it is missing. Ticketer who have try to portray themselves as the really helpful company with BODS and they deal with it all for you, it costs £100 per ticket machine, per annum (That is in addition to the licence fee and other addons which they offer) for them to do the AVL feeds. That is a lot of money for companies, more so given that many independents are already struggling. It's just not viable for quite a few of them.

I think it's worth saying that while the legal requirement is in place for the stuff to be done, the DFT has extended the date unofficially (else it would have to go through parliament to amend the dates). They will not be enforcing BODS until the end of this year and KMPG have been instructed to continue supporting operators through this extended transition period.

That might be an issue with bustimes.


So you can track the more frequent routes where it's not a major issue if you have to wait for the next one, but not the once a day or once a week services that are more usually operated under s19/22!

First Manchester isn't on the system yet (Maybe an oversight) https://data.bus-data.dft.gov.uk/av...&status=&submitform=submit&ordering=-modified

As for your second point, Firstly, S19/S22 operators tend not to have ticket machines. No ticket machine or certainly no ticket machine capable of tracking. If they do have a ticket machine though, I refer you to my first paragraph which shows it is very cost prohibitive. It would disproportionally affect these operators too much. You can also look at their main users and you can see that they aren't the people who would be going online to track the bus.

 

[ThatOneGuy]

There is a reason as to why it is missing. Ticketer who have try to portray themselves as the really helpful company with BODS and they deal with it all for you, it costs £100 per month, per ticket machine (That is in addition to the licence fee and other addons which they offer) for them to do the AVL feeds. That is a lot of money for companies, more so given that many independents are already struggling. It's just not viable for quite a few of them.

I think it's worth saying that while the legal requirement is in place for the stuff to be done, the DFT has extended the date unofficially (else it would have to go through parliament to amend the dates). They will not be enforcing BODS until the end of this year and KMPG have been instructed to continue supporting operators through this extended transition period.



First Manchester isn't on the system yet (Maybe an oversight) https://data.bus-data.dft.gov.uk/av...&status=&submitform=submit&ordering=-modified

As for your second point, Firstly, S19/S22 operators tend not to have ticket machines. No ticket machine or certainly no ticket machine capable of tracking. If they do have a ticket machine though, I refer you to my first paragraph which shows it is very cost prohibitive. It would disproportionally affect these operators too much. You can also look at their main users and you can see that they aren't the people who would be going online to track the bus.

£101 per year per Machine. Not per month. But still a lot of money, especially for smaller companies!

 

[markymark2000]

£101 per year per Machine. Not per month. But still a lot of money, especially for smaller companies!

Sorry, yes £101 per machine, per year for AVL. I will amend the original post.

The timetable side is another £191 per machine, per year (or operators can find another firm or learn the TransXChange creator tool.


The costs are quite high for complying if you want things done with firms who already have the data. Otherwise, you can go elsewhere and get it cheaper but then it's more contracts and more companies to deal with etc. It's not the most operator friendly system on the go.

The Fares data side is awful so not surprising so few companies have sorted that side of things.

 

[bussnapperwm]

Some PSV ops don't have/use ticket machines (such as The Green Bus - their only non student service charges fares through an izettle device and logs passes/pte tickets through the medium of pen and paper) yet use other third party AVL systems to provide the required tracking.

Tbh though, S19/22 permits are a bit dodgy as why should they be allowed to run bus services?

 

[Ken H]

That might be an issue with bustimes.


So you can track the more frequent routes where it's not a major issue if you have to wait for the next one, but not the once a day or once a week services that are more usually operated under s19/22!

thats just a joke